theUndead Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I have a question but not sure if i will get a answer to it. But I will answer it anyway. When a thread is locked or removed by communitysupport is that one moderator or a team of them? I mean I know you yourself have locked thread Eric or Aliison but yeah in the beginning we had named mods and wanted to know what happend to them. Sorry if its out of place or you can't answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariaD Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Actually, you did, several times. A former player of the game, a friend of mine, spoke out against changes you made, and he was infracted for speaking opinion, which was by no means offensive or an attack on the developers. He was given no justification for it other than he was infracted for speaking negatively of the game. Without knowing what your friend wrote, we can't judge if it was offensive. HE says it wasn't. Devs said it was. Who do we believe and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon_strikes Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) He has to warn himself first. LOL some of you guys are too much! As for moderation action, try not to discuss it too much! I don't want you guys getting any warnings as that's sadly against the rules, but you can again, email Eric and the team at CommunitySupport@swtor.com! I believe Eric will make an exception here, as we are discussing the rules. I know there's something I'd like to discuss about, but I'll leave that for way later. I have a question but not sure if i will get a answer to it. But I will answer it anyway. When a thread is locked or removed by communitysupport is that one moderator or a team of them? I mean I know you yourself have locked thread Eric or Aliison but yeah in the beginning we had named mods and wanted to know what happend to them. Sorry if its out of place or you can't answer. Good question! I hope we get an answer to this! Edited March 9, 2013 by HomicidalWhales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimasterjac Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 The "troll" rule leniency is pretty nice to me. My single faction I got was because I called someone a troll and told them to politely "shut the hell up". (He had also directly insulted me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Can you clarify what counts as "calling out" players? Certainly "PlayerX is a speed hacker" or "ToonY is a pro at getting backcapped" is not OK. What about posting screenshots? Videos? Does it matter if the screenie/clip is meant to give props versus shame? Are the server forums treated at all differently? Thanks for details on the new forum rules, and thanks again for the community team's updated philosophy on communicating with the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) -insert a bunch of rules- I'm for the most part fine with that. *reads on* - Threads and responses that are vulgar or sexual in nature. AH, COME ON!!!! On a more serious note, infraction points, do we start from scratch? Why I'm asking? No reason >_> Edited March 10, 2013 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon_strikes Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I know you're giving us some leeway, but at least we should all start from scratch or the cap on infraction points should be increased a bit as the points to each infraction are a bit too extensive for a 15-point system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrupted_Soul Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 What are the rules regarding data mined info? I see nothing saying not to mention it or no links to it, but out of caution I ask if this information is allowed to be posted to a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonalis Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hey everyone, As I am sure many of you have noticed, it has been the Community Team's goal to try a new direction in communication. We are aiming to speak with you more, in a more casual way, and with more information. Some of you may have then wondered "what does this new approach mean for forum rules?" Actually, maybe none of you were asking that, but I am going to answer it anyway. The reason? Because that is going to change a bit as well. Before I explain specifics I want to stress what our goals are for these forums. The forums are meant to be a place where people can come, express their opinions and have constructive discussions without fear of attack or harassment. Please always keep this in mind! Let's talk details: Where we will be more lenient: General "internet" style chatter. In the past we have been pretty harsh about some things, such as calling someone a "troll" or throwing out a "can I have your stuff?". We would remove these types of posts and they could possibly incur a warning or an infraction. In general, we are going to let this slide a bit more, but honestly you shouldn't be doing this in the first place. Just be respectful to each other. Things that are usual forum "nonos" like bumping a thread or "necroing" an old post. We are not going to go as crazy actioning these types of things. That doesn't mean we won't just delete them with no notice. Again, don't do them, because if you are being disruptive, it can still lead to actions being taken against your account. Posts that are often reported for trolling. These types of posts are not always the most constructive or involve direct feedback, but as long as they remain harmless and in good spirits we will err on the side of leaving them be. Where we will continue to be very strict: Any type of post or thread that is political or religious and this also includes analogies of the same type. I know some folks will not understand why we have this rule in place. The problem is that when you make a comparison which is religious or political in nature, it almost always derails that discussion into a religious or political one, which is something that just serves no purpose here. So please stay away from these types of posts as they will continue to be removed and will almost always include a warning or infraction. Threads and responses that are vulgar or sexual in nature. Threads where the only subject is another game or is very off-topic. At the end of the day this is still a STAR WARS: The Old Republic forum and so all threads should revolve around our game. Callouts of any kind are strictly not permitted. This includes calling out specific players and guilds. To get one step further, even posts that appear to have good intent ("List of known ninja looters!") are still in violation of this rule and are not permitted. We want everyone to feel that the forums are a safe place for them and this type of post only serves to harass other players. Intentionally posting false information in the hopes of "stirring up" the community. If it is very clear you have made a post with the intent of lying about facts in order to create disorder, your post will be removed and you will be actioned for it. This type of behavior only serves to incite negative reactions from our forum users. Discussion of moderation is still not allowed. New Infraction/Warning Structure With our new policies in place on *what* we will action against, we are also making similar changes to our warning and infraction system. Although we are giving you a bit more freedom in what you can say, if you continually cross those lines you will be actioned appropriately. In most cases, your first violation will net you a warning. This warning will remind you of what you have done and will act as a friendly reminder to avoid this type of behavior. (For severe violations, a user may skip receiving a warning and go right to an infraction.) After you have received a warning, if you do something else which violates our forum rules, you will receive an infraction. All infractions are now worth 5 points each and suspensions will work as follows: 5 points - 3 day suspension 10 points - 7 day suspension 15 points - Permanent ban TLDR: We want to provide the opportunity for all of you to be able to express your opinions, even disagreements, in a way that does not have you in fear of being reprimanded. However, even with this leeway we will not tolerate players making hurtful statements, harassing, or directly attacking each other in a way that is not constructive. One thing I need to make very clear is that even with this change in forum rules, this does not change any warnings or infractions that you received previously. All of those will still stand and will not be reversed based on the new rules. I hope that all of this makes sense as I tried to spell it out as clearly as I could. -eric and the Community Team Still waiting for a german Version. I know it is not easy to translate this: "We are aiming to speak with you more, in a more casual way, and with more information." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erlestoke Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 To be clear, This suspension and/or ban is just on the forums and not the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorrius Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'd rather have no Ninja looters on the Forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 To be clear, This suspension and/or ban is just on the forums and not the game? Fairly certain it's forums only. That being said, that includes the CS forum so it does affect your gameplay if you need help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_w_sanders Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I have questions. 1. What are the specific things that can get you to skip over a warning and go straight to ban? (I want specifics). 2. What will keep you from abusing said power over the forums? I've seen a lot of moderators who don't like something and someone is banned or warned and it violated no rule on forums. What would stop you from doing this? 3. Who is your acting supervisor and how would we contact him if you abused your power? 4. Can we vote on if we can keep certain trolls? Now I know this may sound like i'm attacking you or distrust you (I do, I trust very few people) but i've seen power abused by many people in positions of authority and believe that we must keep a system of checks and balances in place to keep that from happening. I also believe in very specific guidelines in place so people understand what and how they violated rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I have questions. 1. What are the specific things that can get you to skip over a warning and go straight to ban? (I want specifics). 2. What will keep you from abusing said power over the forums? I've seen a lot of moderators who don't like something and someone is banned or warned and it violated no rule on forums. What would stop you from doing this? 3. Who is your acting supervisor and how would we contact him if you abused your power? 4. Can we vote on if we can keep certain trolls? Now I know this may sound like i'm attacking you or distrust you (I do, I trust very few people) but i've seen power abused by many people in positions of authority and believe that we must keep a system of checks and balances in place to keep that from happening. I also believe in very specific guidelines in place so people understand what and how they violated rules. First off I think your tone is a bit intimidating and your line of questioning is a bit direct. Now I understand what you would want answers to those things but the fact of the matter is he won't reveal their polices on banning nor will he comment about his supervisor. The reason being is that it that is internal practices that we as players don't need to know. You yourself mentioned you don't trust most people but with all due respect Eric is not obligated to tell you anything just for your own reassurance. On the whole I am glad they giving some leeway and being a little more transparent about it. But what your asking is simply not appropriate for discussion on the public forums. But if you messaged him privately maybe he will answer you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_w_sanders Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 First off I think your tone is a bit intimidating and your line of questioning is a bit direct. Now I understand what you would want answers to those things but the fact of the matter is he won't reveal their polices on banning nor will he comment about his supervisor. The reason being is that it that is internal practices that we as players don't need to know. You yourself mentioned you don't trust most people but with all due respect Eric is not obligated to tell you anything just for your own reassurance. On the whole I am glad they giving some leeway and being a little more transparent about it. But what your asking is simply not appropriate for discussion on the public forums. But if you messaged him privately maybe he will answer you. I disagree, I think everyone on the forums should know the answers to these questions. I wasn't intimidating I was direct, I'm not going to dance around to get my questions answered. These tell you the future of these forums, and his answers to my questions tell me if the forums are good or bad (no matter what the answers are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I disagree, I think everyone on the forums should know the answers to these questions. I wasn't intimidating I was direct, I'm not going to dance around to get my questions answered. These tell you the future of these forums, and his answers to my questions tell me if the forums are good or bad (no matter what the answers are). No you were being intimating and somewhat hostile. As such I will repeat your questions are inappropriate and he will not answer them for a few reasons. One he would be giving away polices that are internal and that could cost him his job and two he won't put himself on the line just to satisfy your need for answers. Furthermore do you realize just how huge of a PR nightmare it would cause if that type of info were to be released? Also on another point. The future of the forums? Please enlighten me how being confronted with inappropriate questions about a companies policies determines its future? Would you go to MacDonald s HG and ask their board of directors how they go about their polices on how to deal with customers? Seriously if you are so unrusting then it would be better if you did not use the forums as not one of the Bioware employees will reveal such sensitive information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonalis Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 So these rules only apply in the english forum? Eric? German Version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 He doesn't work weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonalis Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 He doesn't work weekends. Is that an alibi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Post EricMusco Posted March 11, 2013 Author Dev Post Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Do these rules not apply to the german forums, or is there any specific reason, why these rules are only available in english and not even linked in the german forums ? The board rules posted over there, are dated from Nov. 2011. I am just asking, as many german players were expecting that the german and french parts of the forums would turn into a lawless territory, with the two community managers gone. But if you change the rules, you might want to at least tell the whole community about it. (Or maybe I am to fast, and the text is currently being translated ?) We unfortunately made that post close to the end of the day on Friday, we are actively working on getting it translated as we speak. Should be up today or tomorrow. One comment here.... The point scales have changed over time, and points used to expire in many cases (except for a really nasty infraction). So there are forum members with "odd" scores on their accounts compared to the point system you listed above (which I think has been in effect for sometime now... just the penalties are different). Example: 3 points (with never expire on them). From the earlier days when you had different point scales and different rules on expirations of infractions. Not sure how (or if) you intend to address this... but I wanted to point it out... as it does not fit well with your 5/10/15 thresholds and it's bound to trigger some issues for you in the future. Or, maybe not. The math still technically works even in the new system. If you had 3 points in the old system, you will still need 3 more infractions and will hit each benchmark the same. Since from 3 you will go to 8, 13, 18. (so you will hit the 5, 10, and 15 point infraction breakpoints the same). I do wonder if the strict enforcement of these rules will affect accounts. Like if we get banned on forums will we be able to use cartel market or change subscription etc without trouble? Will we be blocked from being able to server transfer in the future etc? Although already answered in the thread I just want to reconfirm that if you reach 15 points it only affects your ability to post on the forums and nothing else. As this is a discussion of moderation, may we assume you will be perma banning yourself at this point He has to warn himself first. I literally laughed out loud at my desk. Well played. I have a question but not sure if i will get a answer to it. But I will answer it anyway. When a thread is locked or removed by communitysupport is that one moderator or a team of them? I mean I know you yourself have locked thread Eric or Aliison but yeah in the beginning we had named mods and wanted to know what happend to them. Sorry if its out of place or you can't answer. When something is done by the CommunitySupport account it means it was done by someone on the Community team. That is a general account that all of us use. Can you clarify what counts as "calling out" players? Certainly "PlayerX is a speed hacker" or "ToonY is a pro at getting backcapped" is not OK. What about posting screenshots? Videos? Does it matter if the screenie/clip is meant to give props versus shame? Are the server forums treated at all differently? Thanks for details on the new forum rules, and thanks again for the community team's updated philosophy on communicating with the players. Your examples are spot on as to what you probably shouldn't do. Things like posting links to screenshots and videos are ok in some circumstances but these types of things should never be done in a negative way (similar to your prior examples). We certainly give the server forums a little more leeway in this regard but I think as long as everyone remains respectful with their intent, you will be ok. One specific thing I want to call out is claims of exploiters/hacking etc, including the posting of screenshots and videos. These types of posts do break the rules and are not acceptable but, if you ever feel that someone is using a hack or an exploit, please report them to CS. That is the appropriate channel for something like that. Edited March 11, 2013 by CourtneyWoods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) I haven't gotten any warnings or infractions like some of the evildoers in this thread . That I know of anyway... Where would they show up if I did? Email linked to account, in a PM, etc. Thanks in advance to whoever replies. Edited March 11, 2013 by Joesixxpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtneyWoods Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I haven't gotten any warnings or infractions like some of the evildoers in this thread . That I know of anyway... Where would they show up if I did? Email linked to account, in a PM, etc. Thanks in advance to whoever replies. Hey Joesixxpack, You will always receive a PM if any of your posts warranted a warning, infraction, or permaban. So if you haven't received a PM, you are in the clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonalis Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Why are you not posting all 3 languages at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Why are you not posting all 3 languages at the same time? Because there is not a single person left in Austin, that can speak german or french, maybe ? Honestly, translating that half page is a matter of 30 minutes. We do not expect perfect german for a long time anyway, as we are used to not getting it. But Posting the english version and not posting a german or french version for THREE days is only strengthening the arguments of haters, who claim, that you basically do not give a dime about the european communities. And please do not post that you do care a great deal, cause by your own rules, it is not allowed to post false information. If you want to convince us, then post the info and not some excuses or promises. Even a fanboys patience wears thin by now. Edited March 11, 2013 by JPryde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_w_sanders Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 No you were being intimating and somewhat hostile. As such I will repeat your questions are inappropriate and he will not answer them for a few reasons. One he would be giving away polices that are internal and that could cost him his job and two he won't put himself on the line just to satisfy your need for answers. Furthermore do you realize just how huge of a PR nightmare it would cause if that type of info were to be released? Also on another point. The future of the forums? Please enlighten me how being confronted with inappropriate questions about a companies policies determines its future? Would you go to MacDonald s HG and ask their board of directors how they go about their polices on how to deal with customers? Seriously if you are so unrusting then it would be better if you did not use the forums as not one of the Bioware employees will reveal such sensitive information. You are aware the mcdonalds analogy isn't a very good one. As mcdonalds is mostly franchises and the franchisee makes decisions regarding proper customer service and the corporate rules are only a guideline. As for being untrusting if your not untrusting to most people you're making a mistake, people will stab you in the back in a heartbeat. Questioning them and leaving specific rules in place are the only ways to keep people in line. If it is left to forum moderators discretion then the power will corrupt him because absolute power corrupts absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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