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Fixing Grade 11 (6.0) crafting

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Fixing Grade 11 (6.0) crafting

Nickodemous's Avatar


Nickodemous
11.11.2019 , 05:20 AM | #21
The moderate level missions give exclusive green crafting items, if the comp critsÖ..you can get 20-30 green mats. The abundant missions reward green and blue. These are all I have been running. It also saves you some creds.

I would suggest farming mats while doing dallies...it helps significantly.

Also, If you have not figured it out yet....this expansion is all about alts. The more the better. For instance, I am running 3-4 scavangers, 3-4 archeologists, 2 plant pickers, and two slicers while playing. Although I have only managed 5 lvl 75 toons, all of my 70s are farming. A lvl 70 toon can hit 700 in all crafting designations.....

/shrug....what I am doing.
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jbuncher's Avatar


jbuncher
11.11.2019 , 06:58 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Estelindis View Post
Following Keith's check-in, I would like to consolidate suggestions for crafting improvements to a single thread.

We've had many threads and posts about the issues with Grade 11 crafting. This thread is not intended to argue if crafting has problems, or even necessarily what those problems are (I think they're fairly well identified at this point), but what to do about the problems.

Anyone who wants to contribute, please make specific suggestions or tweak someone else's suggestions. No insulting Bioware or even defending them, please; this is not about them but about the topic of crafting. Keeping our contributions steamlined and on-topic will help BW far better than any meta discussion.

Now, on to the suggestions!
  • Revert basic components to needing 2/2/2 of each material. No more 8/10/10. A slight lowering to something like 6/8/8 is not enough. Please go straight to 2/2/2. This is the most important thing for you to do.
  • Adjust the supply of green materials via missions. Because Grade 11 crafting needs greens predominantly, but greens are not adequately supplied in proportion to how much they are needed, add extra moderate missions to all mission and gathering skills, but especially to archaeology, scavenging, and bioanalysis (add twice as many new moderate missions to them as to slicing and the mission skills, because they additionally do not have enough missions per type of material, e.g. currently only one moderate power crystal mission, one moderate artifact fragment mission, etc.). Additionally make the other grades return some/more green materials along with their current yields. Alternatively, make moderate missions return twice as many materials (but still give archaeology, scavenging, and bioanalysis extra missions, please - or make their moderate missions return quadruple results instead). But I think this is sub-optimal because a lot of people haven't even noticed that moderate missions are the only ones that return solely greens, and many may continue to not notice.
  • Also because of the need for more grade 11 green materials, realign the proportion of green to blue to purple materials provided by harvesting nodes to approx. 7:2:1. At the moment, even one purple basic component take 204 greens, 72 blues, and 30 purples. (This doesn't take crits along the path to purple components into account, since people's crit rates are different. I acknowledge that in practice the requirements will be less than this, but I find it a helpful starting point for working out how much we need of each quality.) The proportion of green to blue to purple here is approximately either 6:3:1 or 7:2:1 (more precisely, 67:23:10), so that's what the average proportions offered by nodes should be. If BW have some more precise proportion to offer that takes average crit rates into account, that could be used instead. Additionally, for archaeology nodes specifically, please provide the same amount of power crystals as artifact fragments; don't split crystals between colour and power, as there seems to be an under-supply of power crystals that I imagine is coming from nodes (since we never see the amount gathered by a companion in any info window, it's hard to track).
  • Reverse-engineering/deconstructing *either* needs to have a lowest chance of 20% *or* an in-built pity timer that guarantees success after a certain number of attempts. My personal preference is 20% at the lowest, no matter what the grade, but I'm open to argument. The cost to RE higher levels will still be higher because higher levels cost more materials for every attempt. It's not necessary to reduce the chance to 10% or 5% on top of that.
  • Green items should need materials no higher than green. Blue items should need materials no higher than blue (this can include blue exotics like isotopes). Purple items should need materials no higher than purple (this can include purple exotics like matrices). Only gold items should use gold materials.
  • This is a comment partially on grade 11 but also partially on grades 1-10. Restore pre-6.0 mission success chance rates. Before 6.0, I do not remember ever failing a grey-difficulty mission. (If it did happen, it must've been so rare that it didn't register.) Certainly I did not, for example, fail a grade 6 mission when my skill level let me run grade 10 missions - yet, now, I do fail grade 6 missions, often enough that it stands out. This appears to be taking away with one hand while offering to give back with the other hand if we pay a price - i.e. trying to incentivize us to pursue +success rate amplifiers. But, at least for me, all it does is fuel resentment, because I never used to fail on the vast majority of missions before. It was unhelpful to make our success rate worse and hold hostage the prospect of getting it back to what it once was, under certain conditions. Even if one can re-achieve pre-6.0 success rate via amplifiers, having to swap equipment back and forth just to run missions actively makes the crafting experience worse, when 6.0 should be trying to make it better.

Additionally, this is a purely subjective suggestion made solely on behalf of people like me who craft for pretty things rather than stats, so it's a comment on part of crafting rather than crafting as a whole, but...
  • Please add purely cosmetic items at grade 11 (two dyes and one new colour of crystal for artifice is all you gave us; new synthweaving and armormech outfits have stats, when you could also give us empty shell outfits, armstech could get empty weapon shells, artifice empty sabers, more dyes and crystals, mounts for cybertech, etc).

I have cross-posted this thread to Reddit as well, with a view to hopefully gaining more useful feedback. Feel free to comment there if you prefer.
I like the intent behind all of these, but I would also like to add that the slicing mat requirements from most of the lower-grade (green & blue at least) items should be REMOVED. It is now not possible to craft basic things (green/blue lightsaber hilts) using a single character unless you spend an enormous amount of credits or jawa junk on slicing mats. I know people can "run alts", but this is one of the things that exacerbates the large cost of crafting in this expansion.

Raemann's Avatar


Raemann
11.12.2019 , 09:44 PM | #23
Other MMOs offer quests to go after specific items required for crafting. In the case where an item is more valuable than one which, say requires a two-part quest, the quest has three or more parts. However, all parts are doable solo, or in the case of the need to run an "FP styled instance" the player receives bonuses to allow them to solo it. In short the quests system can make it necessary to do a number of tasks to receive an object, but those tasks are doable and not excessive for the item level of the reward.

Raemann's Avatar


Raemann
11.12.2019 , 09:50 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Ergecrs View Post
So basically you want to craft the best gear, with little effort ? Thatís what I read in all this. Pity times massive increase to chances for crits. No effort even though everything was being posted to gtn first week. God forbid we actually have to work at getting stuff. People in MMOís now have such a poor attitude. They donít understand what a grind is. They have no clue how it used to be in games where you literally would have to grind items for months at a time to get the best gears.
- Wait a minute... Didn't someone post in the very beginning of this thread that only constructive suggestions need be submitted; that there be no bashing of BioWare nor other persons posting in the thread. I find your copying that very statement and then insulting everyone posting here at once to be worthy of nomination to the "2019 MMO Forums, Troll of the Year Award".

Ergecrs's Avatar


Ergecrs
11.13.2019 , 02:41 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Raemann View Post
- Wait a minute... Didn't someone post in the very beginning of this thread that only constructive suggestions need be submitted; that there be no bashing of BioWare nor other persons posting in the thread. I find your copying that very statement and then insulting everyone posting here at once to be worthy of nomination to the "2019 MMO Forums, Troll of the Year Award".
You can nominate me for what you like. I have every right to post how and where I want too. Just because someone makes up their own rules does not mean I have follow them. I completely disagree with the entire premise of the post. I feel that crafting is ridiculously easy in the game already and you all only want to make it easier. Itís a joke as is. Instant gratification is not good in games, it makes them boring and people leave quicker when they donít have any real challenges. Whatís the point.

Void_Singer's Avatar


Void_Singer
11.13.2019 , 03:10 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Ergecrs View Post
[...] Instant gratification
you keep using those words... I do not believe they mean what you think they mean.

Not a single suggestion in this thread (or any other 6.0 crafting thread) would make crafting easier than it was, in fact the majority of them still leave crafting 6.0 considerably more difficult than it has been.

No one here expects G11 / 6.0 crafting to be easier than the previous tier. Your claims to the contrary tell me you eithe A) don't actually do any seriouss crafting, or B) are a whale that could afford to throw 10s of billions of credits at it.

Either way your behavior is that of a troll. Think I'm wrong in that assessment? Fine, prove it. You've said your piece, now you can move on, since no further reply is necessary... right?
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Ergecrs's Avatar


Ergecrs
11.13.2019 , 03:18 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Void_Singer View Post
you keep using those words... I do not believe they mean what you think they mean.

Not a single suggestion in this thread (or any other 6.0 crafting thread) would make crafting easier than it was, in fact the majority of them still leave crafting 6.0 considerably more difficult than it has been.

No one here expects G11 / 6.0 crafting to be easier than the previous tier. Your claims to the contrary tell me you eithe A) don't actually do any seriouss crafting, or B) are a whale that could afford to throw 10s of billions of credits at it.

Either way your behavior is that of a troll. Think I'm wrong in that assessment? Fine, prove it. You've said your piece, now you can move on, since no further reply is necessary... right?
You can make all the assumptions you would like to about me. I donít have to prove a point to anyone on the forums. I can post anything I would like as long as it doesnít violate tos. I disagree with the thread and I can continue to make post stating I donít want crafting made easier every time I see the pop up.

Hawkebatt's Avatar


Hawkebatt
11.13.2019 , 03:24 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Ergecrs View Post
So basically you want to craft the best gear, with little effort ? Thatís what I read in all this. Pity times massive increase to chances for crits. No effort even though everything was being posted to gtn first week. God forbid we actually have to work at getting stuff. People in MMOís now have such a poor attitude. They donít understand what a grind is. They have no clue how it used to be in games where you literally would have to grind items for months at a time to get the best gears.
You are no crafter and never have been just by the way you wrote your post. If you are then I question your logic.

For golds I expect the insane amount of matts not to change to be on par with making 258 gear. But gear I will never make more than I need to learn the next color up doesn't need such bloat. Take a good look at Cybertech and tell me you want to farm ten thousand mats just to make even half of them gold? Every single mod type and every single Enhancement type from green to gold. Go broke or see you next year.

We never asked for crafting to change and we never expected to get BiS gear out of it, but since they determined that certain sets would come from crafting then they bloated the system. Can't have gear being crafted that you have to pay tech frag and 1 mil credits for being easy. Those that have golds were supplied by an entire guild, filthy rich, or have never done anything other than craft.

I agree with everything that is requested to bring it back in line with how the lower tiers work. Somethings could be adjusted if brought back to the 2/2/2 but if it does not everything else needs to apply.

As far as we know the gear that we will be allowed to make will be bound to legacy making it impossible to sell. Everything that drops should be Bound to Legacy on Equip (BLE)

I can see the gear section of the gtn drying up for the lack of skins or lower gear.
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Estelindis's Avatar


Estelindis
11.13.2019 , 04:04 AM | #29
As regards off-topicness, of course I can only ask people to stay on-topic, but I do think it is beneficial for us to do so. In my previous-page reply to a user that a few people are replying to on this page, I tried to comment mainly in an on-topic way, and I think that if the person doesn't reply to that, then probably trying to engage them is not the best use of our space in this thread. I don't mind if this thread isn't the biggest or the most active; I just want its consistent quality of feedback to be useful to Bioware. But that's just my opinion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hawkebatt View Post
As far as we know the gear that we will be allowed to make will be bound to legacy making it impossible to sell. Everything that drops should be Bound to Legacy on Equip (BLE)
I'm not fully clear if you are speaking about the current situation or a future situation, but as it stands craftable tacticals and set bonus items are currently BLE and thus can be sold. (Lockboxes containing set bonus items are bound, but the items that the box generates are BLE.)

Not that they are necessarily being sold. I crafted a single tactical on the grounds that I can use it if it doesn't sell. After a few attempts, I am no longer listing it, because several other copies are being listed on the GTN and not selling even though the asking price has dropped to 28% of what they originally listed it at. The current lowest asking price is absolutely a large loss compared to what all the needed materials would have sold for, and it's still not selling. At this point, I think the other sellers are just trying to partially recoup their losses. And I absolutely predicted this in another of the crafting threads. The reason for all this is that high crafting costs punish both crafters and would-be buyers. There's simply no comparison between 3k tech fragments + 1m credits and, for example, 100m credits. I am happy to pay the first. I am not happy to pay the second (in spite of being fully aware of the materials cost; it's simply too large an investment of my credits). Yet crafters need to list at a high price to avoid making a loss vs. simply selling their materials. Ultimately, only rich players can afford to pay a price for crafted endgame items that gives crafters a reason to craft instead of selling materials. And seemingly the majority of them are not doing so and simply waiting for the items' price to drop further. (Rich players are generally rich for a reason and don't throw their credits away without cause.)

Much of this could be avoided if the materials requirement for basic components was reduced to 2/2/2 and the supply of green materials was drastically increased. As it stands, a good number of players have an appreciation of the market value of exotic materials like matrices and embers. But almost none of them have a sense of just how many normal materials are required due to 8/10/10 component costs and the triple nesting of each purple component needing nine green components (via three blue components; not taking crits into account). And many of them also don't know that green materials are in short supply and thus currently sell for an artificially inflated price. Of course, many of them also don't know just how many isotopes, matrices, and embers are needed by the schematics, but at least this can be easily explained by a crafter who just lists numbers, whereas the situation with basic materials is a lot harder to explain (and many simply don't believe it... it is, after all, kinda astonishing, even to those of us who understand it).

Thus, reducing the basic materials cost, and increasing the green materials supply, will improve the situation for both crafters and buyers. Crafters will be able to drop their prices and still make some kind of profit. And the prices of crafted items will become more accessible to those who wish to buy.
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Estelindis's Avatar


Estelindis
11.13.2019 , 11:24 AM | #30
I am very happy to see the following post from Eric today:

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey all,

We have been reading your feedback since Onslaught launched (and of course from PTS beforehand) on your feelings on the current state of crafting. We agree with your feedback that it isnít where we want it to be either. There are quite a few changes planned for 6.0.2 in December and we want to give you a preview of those changes today. As 6.0.2 will not have its own PTS, please use this thread to share your feedback on the changes.
  • The materials required for ďmaterial combinationĒ schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:
    • Premium and Prototype material requirements have been reduced to 6 each (down from 10).
    • Artifact material requirements have been reduced to 12 each (down from 15).
    • The requirements to convert Premium combination materials to Prototype has been reduced to 2 (down from 3).
  • Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills, mission inflow was a little too low:
    • Increase overall inflow of Premium quality materials from Missions.
    • Increase material rewards from Wealthy Yield Missions.
    • Reduce the overall failure rate of ďgreyĒ quality Missions.
  • Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:
    • Broadly increased the chance to earn crafting schematics from deconstructing.
    • Sort of related, we are making a pass to ensure that deconstruction is giving the correct professions materials. Raise any specifics you have where this isnít the case.
  • Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:
    • The Matrix material requirement has been removed from all schematics below Artifact quality.
    • We are looking closely at data around inflow of Legendary Ember requirements. We may increase requirements here but this is still being investigated.
  • The materials that you are earning are not coming in at the correct ratio of Premium : Prototype : Artifact to correlate with expenditure:
    • Rebalancing material inflow to match a 7:2:1 ratio that many of you have raised.
These are all currently planned changes for 6.0.2 so please let us know your thoughts. As always, we will continue to monitor crafting data and your feedback post-6.0.2 and make further changes as needed! Thanks everyone.

-eric
This does not give everything that we asked. However, it does give a lot. We'll be in a position to keep suggesting that further changes be made, if (as I expect, but we'll see) the proposed changes are not enough.
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Let's Fix 6.0 Crafting
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