Any geared DPS class can pop consumables and absolutely destroy people. Scoundrel/operative with its up front burst is one of the most affected since the initial numbers on shoot first/hidden strike are higher than most other abilities and thus buffs scale tremendously.

 

Consumables used:

 

-Adrenal- Bonus: 565 Power. 3min CD, 15s duration, shares cooldown with other adrenals only

-Trinkets- Bonus: 220crit/surge and 355 power. 2 min CD, 30s shared CD (can't hit both at once, but can rotate them), 20s duration.

-Expertise pot- Bonus: 15% expertise (additive with gear/powerup). 3 min CD, 25s duration. Shared CD with commendation heal consumable.

-Warzone red buffs- Bonus: 15% expertise (additive with gear/pot). Respawn every 2 minutes, easy to reach locations in all WZs.

-Rakata Medpac- 5000-6000heal +2000hot/15secs every 1min 30s, shares CD only with other medpacs.

 

Basically, without any powerup or consumable you can bet on me critting anywhere from 4.0-5k on squishy classes with shoot first, and around 2.5-3k on sucker punch and back blast.

 

I sometimes blow a combination of 15% expertise+redbuff (+30% total expertise, over 40% showing on char sheet), power adrenal and crit/surge relic together. This totals +30% damage, +565 power, +220 crit, +220 surge for a total of 15 seconds in which they all apply together before the adrenal drops. ~5-6k crits on spam attacks and ~7-10k crits on opener becomes possible on squishier players.

 

At other times, I rotate them and keep maximum uptime on at least 1 consumable at a time. This can easily result in ~4k crits on spam attacks and ~6.5k crits on openers.

 

 

Screenshot of a pug WZ while using the same consumables, 10k max hit... http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii144/sparks03max/swtor2012-01-1011-23-40-26.jpg

 

It appears consumable stacking even works for level 20 vanguards... who'd have known?

 

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii144/sparks03max/swtor2012-01-0906-25-59-17.jpg

 

Ok. Made another short clip. In this one, I am attacking 2 players that have over 500 expertise.

 

Powerr is a Shadow with roughly half battlmaster gear, half champion, and 16k hp. He's gotten lucky with bags and at the time of this video, is more geared than my scoundrel.

 

Magesblood is a Commando with full champion gear and 15k hp.

 

I am using crit/surge relic and power adrenal. The 30% damage bonus that can be achieved from expertise consumables is not even present here.

 

 

Again, this is why I say to move some of the burst on the opener to other attacks (like sucker punch) and put a cooldown on shoot first so you can't double open on someone with vanish.

 

More food for thought. Since the argument in this post is more that consumable stacking is OP, and given this shock/chain shock hit doesn't have a nice 4-5k dot of internal damage attached to the one gcd it took to cast it, and also given there's a little more setup but not too much on the shock, here's what another class can do with consumables.

 

http://imgur.com/Nk3A1

 

9532 damage with one button press.

 

Consumables are a problem. You can't really argue that. A shock that does half that much normally I consider to be a good shock.

 

That isn't to say that the scrapper/concealment possibilities aren't stronger (cause they are), or that they don't need to be looked at for balance tuning, because they do, but consumables are definitely a problem that needs to be dealt with separately and soon.

 

 

I want consumables to be nerfed. I want back blast/hidden strike damage reduced and lacerate/sucker punch increased to make up for it. I want there to be a 6-8s cooldown on shoot first/hidden strike so that you can't use vanish to use it twice in a row and kill a player in 1 GCD before they can react.

 

The best way that I see to get it fixed quickly is to make it as visible as possible. Cry more.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Kutsus

Yeah, this is stupid.

Thanks for your videos and continued feedback, ive personally seen most builds of smuggler/agent in pvp and pve and they are seemingly balanced. I am in agreement that consumables almost across the board are OP on most if not all classes.

 

I have one question for you though, do you think the resolve system as is - is balanced?

 

Ive been told by many agents and smugglers that they cannot pull off several CCs on the same player, but I have on multiple occasions been CCd 3 times by the same agent/smuggler without my resolve bar maxing until after the 3rd CC (meaning id be immune to a 4th CC)

Edited January 6, 2012 by Phaentom

Agreed, nerf the consumables. This is coming from a 400 Biochem that uses them as well. They provide too much of an edge.

 

Sure everyone can use them, but whats the point of other crew skills if everyone has to max Biochem to be able to compete?

Lol those people you're killing just sit there and die. 3v1 and they don't stun you? Ugh. This is just giving bad players more fuel to whine.

Good work.

Stacking buffs that way = scaling burst to incredible amount = evil. BW should definetily look at it first.

Curious why you went with the Power adrenal instead of Surge?

They should learn to play the class without this amount of buffs, no wonder people come here and complain and the average player dont see such numbers...just wait and see how other classes will do with the same buffs, already sorcerer do 5k crits from range and 4k tickings with force field.....hope they fix pvp, dmg is way too high in general and is getting higher and higher with better gear, tricks n tipps with buff stucking or whatever bs.

@OP,

 

Wow, you hit like a mac truck!

Lol those people you're killing just sit there and die. 3v1 and they don't stun you? Ugh. This is just giving bad players more fuel to whine.

 

 

What this guy said.

 

Don't get me wrong there's some impressive stuff here but Scrappers/Operatives seem to be 1 trick ponies where they just have a crapload of upfront burst dps but not much utility at all. Put them in a pug wz and they'll rack up the kills but put them in a 8v8 full of pvp gear'd 50s with tanks that guard+taunt, healers, and dps that snare/stun and they're pretty ineffective.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Paganini

Thanks for your videos and continued feedback, ive personally seen most builds of smuggler/agent in pvp and pve and they are seemingly balanced. I am in agreement that consumables almost across the board are OP on most if not all classes.

 

I have one question for you though, do you think the resolve system as is - is balanced?

 

Ive been told by many agents and smugglers that they cannot pull off several CCs on the same player, but I have on multiple occasions been CCd 3 times by the same agent/smuggler without my resolve bar maxing until after the 3rd CC (meaning id be immune to a 4th CC)

 

You may be confused about how CC and resolve works, because this is a list of Scoundrel/Operative CC and it's resolve contribution:

 

1. 8 second Sap from stealth no cooldown, requires target to be out of combat. This gives a 100% white full resolve bar instantly, you can not be stunned again until the entire white bar has gone away (~15s).

 

2. 4 second stun (dirty kick for scoundrel) 45s-1minute cooldown depending on spec. This gives 4 grey bars (nearly full resolve bar) and ANY type of incapacitating CC including a knockback will instantly fill your resolve bar if used soon after.

 

3. 8 second Mez that breaks on damage (Flashbang) 1m 30s cooldown. This gives 4 grey bars (nearly full resolve bar) and ANY type of incapacitating CC including a knockback will instantly fill your resolve bar if used soon after.

 

4. 3 second Knockdown on Shoot First/Hidden strike (spec'd for) No cooldown, but requires stealth to use shoot first. This gives a 100% white full resolve bar instantly, you CAN NOT be stunned again until your entire white bar has gone away (around ~15s).

 

4. Spec'd 2 second root (can't run, but can still attack/cast/etc) on Tendon blast 12s cooldown. This root, like 99% of roots in this game, bypasses resolve.

 

 

So basically every one of our CC's except the root on tendon blast gives either a full bar of resolve, or nearly so. The highest duration of time that a scoundrel can CC you straight if you don't break either CC is Flashbang for 8 seconds, then vanish and sap you for 8 seconds. Both of these CC's break on damage, so they can't damage you during this time.

 

The highest duration of time that an operative/scoundrel can CC you while attacking you is 7 seconds. This is achieved by stunning you with dirty kick (4s), then vanishing at the end of the stun and knocking you down with shoot first. There is a 2 minute timer when spec'd on vanish.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Kutsus

What this guy said.

 

Don't get me wrong there's some impressive stuff here but Scrappers/Operatives seem to be 1 trick ponies where they just have a crapload of upfront burst dps but not much utility at all. Put them in a pug wz and they'll rack up the kills but put them in a 8v8 full of pvp gear'd 50s with tanks that guard+taunt, healers, and dps that snare/stun and they're pretty ineffective.

 

This thread isn't about the class he's playing.

I really don't see a problem here. Most of your enemies were either below 50 or had awful gear. You used CDs like any other smart player would do. You weren't so volatile when you were out of stealth and CC'd, but most of their team wasn't smart enough to put you in that position. When I am queuing with friends and we spot a burst class, we make their job as difficult as possible.

This thread isn't about the class he's playing.

 

 

I'm aware, but that's what some of the comments responded to and considering the nature of these forums I'm sure there will be plenty more cries for Scoundrel nerfs.

Curious why you went with the Power adrenal instead of Surge?

 

565 surge hits serious diminishing returns about ~200 into the buff. You max out at 99% surge, and I already have 85% from gear.

 

Power, however, has no diminishing returns that I can find. At least not at numbers in the sub 1000 area.

I find it odd that you're getting the 5k heal medal for your Rakata medpac, but I only ever get the 2.5k medal for using mine.

They should learn to play the class without this amount of buffs, no wonder people come here and complain and the average player dont see such numbers...just wait and see how other classes will do with the same buffs, already sorcerer do 5k crits from range and 4k tickings with force field.....hope they fix pvp, dmg is way too high in general and is getting higher and higher with better gear, tricks n tipps with buff stucking or whatever bs.

 

"will do with the same buffs"... You act like this is some kind of secret. The majority of "hardcore" PVPers, all these videos with marauders/guardians hitting for 7k... Guess what, consumables are being used.

I find it odd that you're getting the 5k heal medal for your Rakata medpac, but I only ever get the 2.5k medal for using mine.

 

If you can't get it to hit 5k in combat, just wait til combat is over and get your free medal. Easiest in huttball.

I find it odd that you're getting the 5k heal medal for your Rakata medpac, but I only ever get the 2.5k medal for using mine.

 

Scoundrel has a 9% bonus to all incoming heals with the "survivor's scars" talent in the bottom of Scrapper tree. This pushes it just over the 5k range when trauma is up.

 

You can get the medal guaranteed every time if you take damage then wait for the trauma debuff to go down. You can take damage by removing your gear and putting it back on.

If you can't get it to hit 5k in combat, just wait til combat is over and get your free medal. Easiest in huttball.

 

I usually do pop it at least once while out of combat, but I never seem to get the medal. Maybe I'm just not paying attention. And yeah, I know it actually has to heal the 5k; overhealing doesn't count.

Edited January 6, 2012 by GuyWithFace

and here screen with damage, they cc you and later you dead in 2 seconds:

 

Here 3.7k+3.7k in 1 second: http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t122/yenoga/Screenshot_2012-01-06_23_56_18_586326.jpg

 

here 6k and later 3.7k by i can not scren the first damage: http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t122/yenoga/Screenshot_2012-01-06_23_49_31_306031.jpg

What this guy said.

 

Don't get me wrong there's some impressive stuff here but Scrappers/Operatives seem to be 1 trick ponies where they just have a crapload of upfront burst dps but not much utility at all. Put them in a pug wz and they'll rack up the kills but put them in a 8v8 full of pvp gear'd 50s with tanks that guard+taunt, healers, and dps that snare/stun and they're pretty ineffective.

 

We have high sustained damage when out of stealth, great off healing potential when needed (as seen in my other videos), and one of the best AOE CCs in the game with flashbang. A root that bypasses resolve on a 12s timer is also useful.

 

I believe in those 8v8 situations, operative/scoundrels will be used to cause havoc for guards/healers by bursting down a different target than the main assist is targetting then joining the assist train when it's no longer possible to restealth. Also as a combination with a sorc/sage whirlwind for very long duration CC lockout on healers who have already used their main CC break.

and here screen with damage, they cc you and later you dead in 2 seconds:

 

Here 3.7k+3.7k in 1 second[/url]

 

here 6k and later 3.7k by i can not scren the first damage:

 

I see your screenshots and raise you this one:

 

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii144/sparks03max/swtor2012-01-0303-51-06-87.jpg

I usually do pop it at least once while out of combat, but I never seem to get the medal. Maybe I'm just not paying attention. And yeah, I know it actually has to heal the 5k; overhealing doesn't count.

 

It's not JUST being out of combat. Look for the trauma debuff on your debuffs bar... Wait for it to run out. The heal will be ~30% more, easily 6k.

We have high sustained damage when out of stealth, great off healing potential when needed (as seen in my other videos), and one of the best AOE CCs in the game with flashbang. A root that bypasses resolve on a 12s timer is also useful.

 

I believe in those 8v8 situations, operative/scoundrels will be used to cause havoc for guards/healers by bursting down a different target than the main assist is targetting then joining the assist train when it's no longer possible to restealth. Also as a combination with a sorc/sage whirlwind for very long duration CC lockout on healers who have already used their main CC break.

 

I've yet to see a Scoundrel/Op with decent sustained damage out of opening burst. Do you have a video you could link that shows some decent dps?