I pvped on my lvl 15 toon, got the plague and it persists through death but yet your slugging lowbies 2k for a vaccine that does not persist through death.

It wouldn't be so bad if this ****** plague didn't *********** cc me every couple of seconds making questing retardly hard.

People really don't understand how devalued credits are in this game....

The last time the plague event happened, the vaccine DID persist through death. It got nerfed for no apparent reason.

OK maybe it is a credit sink but it makes certain playstyles of leveling simply not viable.

PVP doesn't pay well. People will use PVP as a venue to spread the plague, necessitating vaccines. But you die in PVP, so a warzone that pays maybe 3k costs you 6k in vaccines because you died 3 times. (And that assumes you're at least a half decent player, not a bad who died 10 times, but that's another thread...)

Now I'm not saying that warzones need to pay 50k credits each but a player leveling through PVP should at least earn enough to train skills. Removing "persist through death" from the vaccine gives lowbies the choice to either abandon PVP, suffer through completely random plague-related CC that afaik is off resolve, or bleed credits replenishing vaccines that they should only have to replenish once every few hours in te first place.

It's not an appropriate place to put a credit sink and bad game design.

The last time the plague event happened, the vaccine DID persist through death. It got nerfed for no apparent reason.

 

OK maybe it is a credit sink but it makes certain playstyles of leveling simply not viable.

 

PVP doesn't pay well. People will use PVP as a venue to spread the plague, necessitating vaccines. But you die in PVP, so a warzone that pays maybe 3k costs you 6k in vaccines because you died 3 times. (And that assumes you're at least a half decent player, not a bad who died 10 times, but that's another thread...)

 

Now I'm not saying that warzones need to pay 50k credits each but a player leveling through PVP should at least earn enough to train skills. Removing "persist through death" from the vaccine gives lowbies the choice to either abandon PVP, suffer through completely random plague-related CC that afaik is off resolve, or bleed credits replenishing vaccines that they should only have to replenish once every few hours in te first place.

 

It's not an appropriate place to put a credit sink and bad game design.

Nice post and totally agree.

It's not an appropriate place to put a credit sink and bad game design.

This is SWTOR. 2K is not a credit sink in this game, except maybe your first week as a new player.

Besides, most subs posting here in the forum have plenty of wealth on at least one character. And if for whatever reason they do not... then they have yet to learn to play the game. Part of playing any MMO, regardless how you spend most of your time (PvP, PvE, /Picking-Nose_On-Fleet) is to develop at least one manageable income stream.

Should the vaccine persist through death... /shrug.

Is 2K for a vaccine griefing the player base? NO.

It's crap. Want to quest? Sorry, you're infected and will die due to freezing up every few seconds. Spend those creds on something completely stupid thrown in by the devs. Want to PvP? Sorry, you're infected and will die due to freezing up every few seconds. Spends those creds and... whoops!

Your only real option is to log in and do nothing.

It's a terrible event defended by terrible players.

It's crap. Want to quest? Sorry, you're infected and will die due to freezing up every few seconds. Spend those creds on something completely stupid thrown in by the devs. Want to PvP? Sorry, you're infected and will die due to freezing up every few seconds. Spends those creds and... whoops!

 

Your only real option is to log in and do nothing.

 

It's a terrible event defended by terrible players.

PVP I can see the problem, but in PVE have done it on two toons slinger and sawbones so far and have only died from blowing up from plague, even two man the heroic and never died. The annoying thing to me was the constant interrupts in trying to get the objectives, not the interrupts during the fight were slightly annoying they in no way spelled death.

PVP I can see the problem, but in PVE have done it on two toons slinger and sawbones so far and have only died from blowing up from plague, even two man the heroic and never died. The annoying thing to me was the constant interrupts in trying to get the objectives, not the interrupts during the fight were slightly annoying they in no way spelled death.

This is indeed the issue, PvP that is. While it is a minor credit sink for PvE it can be a major credit sink in PvP. Especially if you are doing the dailies/weeklies on multiple toons. You do have the option of just accepting the fact that you will randomly die due to the plague CC. But, especially in PvP, that significantly impacts the enjoyment, at least for me. So you have a choice, stock up on a ton of vaccines for all the toons you PvP on, which can be expensive. Or, like I'm doing, just don't PvP until it is over. Which means playing very little for me since I mostly do casual PvP in SWTOR.

Unlike some I don't think the Devs did it on purpose to "punish" PvP versus PvE players. I personally think the differing impact on PvP versus PvE just didn't occur to them when they made the vaccine not last through death now. Which is an issue by itself.

Unlike some I don't think the Devs did it on purpose to "punish" PvP versus PvE players. I personally think the differing impact on PvP versus PvE just didn't occur to them when they made the vaccine not last through death now. Which is an issue by itself.

Agree with your assessment Erasimus. I imagine they just naturally figured that players not actually working the event, would inoculate and move to whatever other content they wish to do. They forgot about the professional keester crowd.

IMO, they neglected the inherent PvP desire to grief whenever, with whatever. The average PvPer would probably grief their mom by smearing jello all over the kitchen floor if they thought they could get away with it.

Should they know better by now, with respect to PvPer shenanigans? Yeah, they really should. On the other hand, maybe they did see it and decided it was an appropriate component of PvP during the event. /shrug.

But IMO, expect a minor patch to fix it to persist through death IMO, at least when in PvP zones. If we don't see this, then it was not an oversight, it was by design.

Besides... I thought PvPers were tough.. and could roll with the circumstances they face. Why the QQ from some?

Agree with your assessment Erasimus. I imagine they just naturally figured that players not actually working the event, would inoculate and move to whatever other content they wish to do. They forgot about the professional keester crowd.

 

IMO, they neglected the inherent PvP desire to grief whenever, with whatever. The average PvPer would probably grief their mom by smearing jello all over the kitchen floor if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Should they know better by now, with respect to PvPer shenanigans? Yeah, they really should. On the other hand, maybe they did see it and decided it was an appropriate component of PvP during the event. /shrug.

 

But IMO, expect a minor patch to fix it to persist through death IMO, at least when in PvP zones. If we don't see this, then it was not an oversight, it was by design.

 

Besides... I thought PvPers were tough.. and could roll with the circumstances they face. Why the QQ from some?

The ridiculous part of this whole saga is they were warned last time. There were plenty of posts complaining about this and not one of them thought hey, maybe we better tweak this to alleviate the aggro.

It could of easily been made more user friendly, change them to 1 credit each and/or make them a reusable item.

This is SWTOR. 2K is not a credit sink in this game, except maybe your first week as a new player.

 

Besides, most subs posting here in the forum have plenty of wealth on at least one character. And if for whatever reason they do not... then they have yet to learn to play the game. Part of playing any MMO, regardless how you spend most of your time (PvP, PvE, /Picking-Nose_On-Fleet) is to develop at least one manageable income stream.

 

Should the vaccine persist through death... /shrug.

Is 2K for a vaccine griefing the player base? NO.

Uh...in case you didn't notice, the OP said he was level 15. A 2k expense that occurs every time you die in a warzone is a lot to a level 15 who decides that PVP is (otherwise) more fun than side questing.

Not everyone has well-established mains, and those new to the game don't yet have crafting established as a source of income either.

I myself felt this as I recently shipped off one of my toons in a server transfer to meet up with an old friend I didn't know played the game. Sure I originally transferred 7m, much of which has already been eaten by legacy upgrades, mark-9 augment kits for multiple sets of gear (upon hitting 55), etc. His crafting isn't quite maxed yet so I can't push out thermal regulators to sell, and what remains in his credits balance, he will need for the purchase of augments.

Yes I can afford the 2k per stim (I bought 10) but the removal of persist-through-death means death is only occasionally OK. I can't risk it happening 5 times within 15 minutes, or it'll add up to more than 100k per day. Since this toon is now on a server that is separate from my main income producers (and still leveling), he can't absorb that. I might do my warzone weekly...maybe. But I certainly won't queue for several warzones per day to level him like I usually do.

A level 15 with no existing credit stockpile at all and no experience playing the game is boned even harder by this nerf. No warzone leveling for him. As I said, not an appropriate place for a credit sink.

you can get a relic that is 20k and it gives you the vaccine

OP is a level 15, who can't access the relic.

Uh...in case you didn't notice, the OP said he was level 15. A 2k expense that occurs every time you die in a warzone is a lot to a level 15 who decides that PVP is (otherwise) more fun than side questing.

 

Not everyone has well-established mains, and those new to the game don't yet have crafting established as a source of income either.

 

A level 15 with no existing credit stockpile at all and no experience playing the game is boned even harder by this nerf. No warzone leveling for him. As I said, not an appropriate place for a credit sink.

Ummm.. you are projecting and conflating here.

Check his forum number ------> 848972 He's not new to this game.

He said he was playing a level 15 character. Nowhere did it allege that it was his one and only, nor that he was a new player, nor that he had no cap level characters (which would indeed, no matter how bad they are applied, have the means to support his level 15's PvP).

All this QQ and complaining..... why not just ask in the bug report forum if it is working as intended or not?? Since I know you guys won't stop the drama long enough to do so.. I did it for you. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7135390#post7135390

You're welcome

Ummm.. you are projecting and conflating here.

 

Check his forum number ------> 848972 He's not new to this game.

 

He said he was playing a level 15 character. Nowhere did it allege that it was his one and only, nor that he was a new player, nor that he had no cap level characters (which would indeed, no matter how bad they are applied, have the means to support his level 15's PvP).

Is this really relevant?

He didn't technically say that he was new, nor did he technically say the level 15 was his only toon, but I inferred such from the fact that he is here to complain about a level 15 having to spend 2k per stim that doesn't persist through death.

And let me play devil's advocate here. He did say that the plague CCs so much that he dies while questing a lot. He didn't even say he was PVPing--I merely pointed out that PVP is what is really capable of blowing this into a full-scale credit sink that all but forbids certain leveling playstyles.

If he did have 55s to support his 15:

1) Wouldn't the legacy bonuses, especially presence, from such 55s (6 classes get a tank as their first companion, 2 classes get a healer for the first companion) make such companion powerful enough to survive/hold aggro and/or heal through such plague CC?

2) Would he be here complaining that each (PVE) death was costing him an extra 2k in the first place?

So please forgive me if I didn't look up the exact date he joined the forum and inferred that more likely than not his 15 was his first toon or perhaps one of a handful of lowbies. The inference was reasonable even if it does turn out to be incorrect.

Is this really relevant?

 

He didn't technically say that he was new, nor did he technically say the level 15 was his only toon, but I inferred such from the fact that he is here to complain about a level 15 having to spend 2k per stim that doesn't persist through death.

Yeah.. it is relevant precisely because you inferred more then he actually said, and then proceeded to conflate from there to support your credit sink complaint. But your declaration that the 2K price for the vaccine is a credit sink is weak sauce.

My guess is he complained simply because he was caught without vaccines in his inventory while PvPing and got bent about it because the infection interrupted his play periodically. He probably entered PvP assuming that the vaccine would persist and that he did not need a fresh vaccine until after 6 hours of play. A guess that is just as plausible as yours and in fact more plausible IMO.

Again.... people can complain, conflate and QQ 7/24 about this if they like. I opened a thread in the bug report forum to see if we can get a confirmation as to either "working as intended" or "not working as intended" and needs a patch to make the vaccine persistent.

Ummm.. you are projecting and conflating here.

 

Check his forum number ------> 848972 He's not new to this game.

 

He said he was playing a level 15 character. Nowhere did it allege that it was his one and only, nor that he was a new player, nor that he had no cap level characters (which would indeed, no matter how bad they are applied, have the means to support his level 15's PvP).

 

All this QQ and complaining..... why not just ask in the bug report forum if it is working as intended or not?? Since I know you guys won't stop the drama long enough to do so.. I did it for you. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7135390#post7135390

You're welcome

No I am not new to the game been here since beta.

Problem is buying augments, aug kits and getting the aug slots is expensive on raiding toons, send millions of creds to buy legacy perks for leveling is also a major cred sink.

Wiping at 5k per wipe also hurts the bank.

Pulling mods on end game toons to either get a look or put it in legacy gear also hurts the bank.

Topping up the guild bank to keep your guild happy with guild repairs being the GM also hurts the bank.

Being under cut by scrubs on the gtn also hurts the cred income.

Running dailies burns you out.

The last thing I want to do while leveling is getting on 55 to go and do dailies just to stop the credit sink on a lowbie!

The plague wasn't so bad last time due to dying would get rid of it.

Now it persists through death forcing any one with out mains, who can do dailies, into a credit sink.

Imagine the players wearing greens that are new to the game.

Once again Bioware seem to release content without thinking about it.

One simple patch to change the vaccine to persist through death for those that do now want to participate in the event.

No I am not new to the game been here since beta.

Problem is buying augments, aug kits and getting the aug slots is expensive on raiding toons, send millions of creds to buy legacy perks for leveling is also a major cred sink.

Wiping at 5k per wipe also hurts the bank.

Pulling mods on end game toons to either get a look or put it in legacy gear also hurts the bank.

Topping up the guild bank to keep your guild happy with guild repairs being the GM also hurts the bank.

Being under cut by scrubs on the gtn also hurts the cred income.

Running dailies burns you out.

Correct.. there ARE expenses in this game, and they are costly at level 55 to be gearing to the max.

But all that aside.... if you want to be playing your level 15 character in PvP during the event... surely you can peel enough credits from the rest of your characters to do it style, while coping with the PvP nuance of everyone deliberately infecting each other as part of PvP.

Come on.. you know I'm right.. and it's more about the annoyance factor for you.. not the economics. I get the annoying part, I do. Then again, there is always something annoying in an MMO... right?

Let's see if Tait responds to my thread over in bug-report so at least we know if it is intended or not. Let's work the issue, not each other, IMO.

Correct.. there ARE expenses in this game, and they are costly at level 55 to be gearing to the max.

 

But all that aside.... if you want to be playing your level 15 character in PvP during the event... surely you can peel enough credits from the rest of your characters to do it style, while coping with the PvP nuance of everyone deliberately infecting each other as part of PvP. Come on.. you know I'm right.. and it's more about the annoyance factor for you.. not the economics. I get the annoying part, I do.

 

Let's see if Tait responds to my thread over in bug-report so at least we know if it is intended or not. Let's work the issue, not each other, IMO.

You are totally correct.

I just really don't want to burn out in a game I love dearly by grinding dailies and find it extremely annoying in pvp on imp side to play considering we get face rolled so bad before the event on the harby.

I wan't this game to be successful and care for newcomers to the game.

I it is annoying for me then how bad will it be for newbies to the game considering they don't have mains to run dailies, they don't get anything for blowing up, they can't be apart of the event even though the event affects them so it would only make sense that the vaccine would persist through death.

The whole point of this thread was to express my frustration at the devs as it was a problem last time in the first rak event and it's made even worse now.

The whole point of this thread was to express my frustration at the devs as it was a problem last time in the first rak event and it's made even worse now.

Yeah, I totally got the frustration part.

Correct.. there ARE expenses in this game, and they are costly at level 55 to be gearing to the max.

 

But all that aside.... if you want to be playing your level 15 character in PvP during the event... surely you can peel enough credits from the rest of your characters to do it style, while coping with the PvP nuance of everyone deliberately infecting each other as part of PvP. Come on.. you know I'm right.. and it's more about the annoyance factor for you.. not the economics. I get the annoying part, I do.

 

Let's see if Tait responds to my thread over in bug-report so at least we know if it is intended or not. Let's work the issue, not each other, IMO.

So OP came in here and said he wasn't a new player. Server transferring/not being able to simply send more credits over had given me just a bit of empathy for those new, fresh 15s without a support system, I suppose.

But he did say it was a credit sink on top of a bunch of other credit sinks, one he just didn't need to deal with. And I happen to agree with that.

Yet somehow calling the 2k credits a credit sink, i.e. calling a spade a spade, is weak sauce?

Hmm, if I have a couple hours and I want to level by PVP...

4 warzones/hour*3 deaths each*2k=24k credits per hour.

(let's say in lowbie those warzones pay an average of 1.5k each, for really low levels that is quite a generous assumption, for a net loss of 18k credits per hour)

Of course deaths, and corresponding costs, will probably be much higher for classes that cannot heal to full.

A new player just trying out new things within the game, will not be able to absorb that at all. I still remember how long it took my first toon to get the 25k to train the first level of speeder piloting. Losing two-thirds of that within an hour is going to turn a lowbie without access to support from friends away from PVP really quickly.

Even if my lowbie was still on the same server as my 55s, warzones barely pay enough to cover the credit sink of mod ripping as it is. I craft but, as OP stated, much of the output goes to keep the guild bank topped off and guild leaders happy. I basically only sell enough crafting output to cover the costs of such crafting, unless I notice no one uses my crafting output (seldom happens) in which case I can sell more.

Yes I can run dailies to pay for this but I despise dailies. I'm not even inclined to run the rakghoul event to grind rep therefor unless and until Bioware gives us legacy offhands, which didn't happen, and the only reason why I bothered with it on my lowbie on Ebon Hawk is because it's another source of XP that doesn't result in me dying 10+ times an hour and thus having to replenish the vaccine that often. I despise running dailies and I don't want to run the same planet quests for the 14th time.

Ordinarily I'd fill in the gaps from the class quest XP with warzones, maybe the odd flashpoint here and there, but it's looking like my options are pretty much GSF (on a new server with no ship upgrades, not too appetizing) or running the event itself. I'm not thrilled about the leveling options I prefer suddenly becoming too expensive for me to do (be it by drawing down my credits or forcing me to grind credits doing activities I find undesirable).

/snip for brevity

Sorry, but no matter how you try to spin it or how much you fluff it up with words..... 2K =/= a credit sink in this game.

There are many many credit sinks in this game to be sure.. but the plague vaccine is not one of them. It is an annoyance to be sure, and in PvP more so.

The frustration of having to deal with constant plague contagion in PvP, I understand completely. PvP can be a very annoying facet of this game in so many ways. As I stated earlier it's possible non-persistence was a dev oversight, OR by intention to spice up the PvP. I have an open thread in the bug report forum asking them to let us know which it is.

Sorry, but no matter how you try to spin it or how much you fluff it up with words..... 2K =/= a credit sink in this game.

 

There are many many credit sinks in this game to be sure.. but the plague vaccine is not one of them. It is an annoyance to be sure, and in PvP more so.

 

The frustration of having to deal with constant plague contagion in PvP, I understand completely. PvP can be a very annoying facet of this game in so many ways. As I stated earlier it's possible non-persistence was a dev oversight, OR by intention to spice up the PvP. I have an open thread in the bug report forum asking them to let us know which it is.

Uh I'm not even sure you realize what a credit sink is. Anything that removes credits from the game economy is a sink--the vaccine could only cost 1 credit and still it would be a credit sink.

Now we can argue all day as to whether the magnitude of the credit sink is significant or not. To a wealthy 55, it's not. To a new player, it is. Even though it's small in nominal terms it's one of the most regressive credit sinks the developers could have come up with, in that it hits those newest to the game the hardest, while leaving those who are well-established and wealthy almost completely untouched, and therefore is not good game design.

Sorry, but no matter how you try to spin it or how much you fluff it up with words..... 2K =/= a credit sink in this game.

I don't know why people have to say this over and over again. If you want to do warzones, you're going to die somewhere around 10-20 times per match. Let's say 15 on average. If you run 5 warzones in an evening, that will probably cost you around 15 x 5 x 2K = 150K credits. That's way freaking more than 2K. On my main characters, I don't even have 150K at the moment because I just spent almost everything I had on augments. So the bottom line: this stupid event means I can't play warzones. Thanks a freaking lot.