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Group Ranked Wasted space?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Group Ranked Wasted space?

KumbayaGOD's Avatar

09.17.2014 , 08:33 PM | #11
some guy in this forum posted a suggestion ELO now must be completely overhaul , like he said last time if you win you get x point (big) and if loses give 0 point or small points

by the end people will encourage to q more, lets face it ranked it serious business people are very touchy when they lost and lose elo rating , but in any games win and lose in common thing but lets face it people hate to lose :P

people will grind it ....? make the point 0 or very small but not elo drop so even grinding it within 3 months wont get gold / tier one reward
thats the only solution people will more encourage to q ,i think that is good solution

cross server you say ?---> bioware said it aint gonna happen so please dont expect this any time soon , so easiest way is change the system that alerady exist

KalElc's Avatar

09.18.2014 , 01:43 AM | #12
Lots of good stuffs and suggestions, keep it up guys also please rate the thread when u post so it will have more chance to be recognize.
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HaLeX's Avatar

09.18.2014 , 02:49 AM | #13
It is a waste of space, agree with that.

1. Not enough teams and even when there are, the losers quickly start que dodging and wait till said better team leaves. Example: Infinite Darkness left pot5 because they couldn't get enough matches. Once they left the #2 and #3 guilds start complaining that no one wants to que vs them. The #2 and #3 teams are so far ahead of a new group forming up its really not worth bothering. It would take many hours of practice and getting spanked over and over to compete for little to no reward and take a brutal ratings hit for trying.

2. The 4 man arena concept is flawed. One weak link and the team loses. With 8 man you could afford to carry someone who is good but not great. Not so in 4 man.

3. ELO system with so few teams doesn't work. The rating kills ego's and no one wants to be considered a loser, its better not to bother.

4. The matches themselves are too structured its almost like doing pve in a way. The better team will win 99% of the time. They need an objective or some type of variable that throws some rng into the mix.

5. Because of the above the group format is not fun and there is no interest from 99% of players to do them. On the contrary with the 8 man format I was consistently able to get average to good players to face off against the server elite and some of the matches were fun because we could try different unorthodox tactics and/or you could even get the elite team to give a handicap. Good luck doing that with elo ratings at stake.

6. The solo que has become the defacto group rated scene and its just a focus fire derp fest with all dps and a mix of hybrid healers because of the faulty and very predictable matchmaking. The best players time their ques to be with their friends. The highest rated marauder on POT5 stopped doing solos because he got tired of facing premades match after match. Most of the best imperials have stopped queing on POT5 and the leaderboards are dominated by one pub guild.

7. Group rated is really broken, solo rated is broken but still active among the few who still do it. They should scrap 4 man arena as the rated format and revert back to the original system(with improvements) with a modified rating system. If they did that people like me who aren't elite but who do enjoy better competition than what is offered in regs once in a while would be tempted to go for a team and make a commitment. In its current format there's just no way.
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Groncho's Avatar

09.18.2014 , 07:10 AM | #14
bring back 8v8's with leaderboards, add them to Galactic Conquest
Keep 4v4's group and add them to Galactic Conquest
erase Yolo q rateds as it is garbage

Free Transfer??=

VdFExarKun's Avatar

09.18.2014 , 07:48 AM | #15
I also would like to know the rewards for the different tiers at the start of the season and NOT one week before the season ends.

Ottoattack's Avatar

09.18.2014 , 08:22 AM | #16
OP, problem is, was and forever will be is that not enough people on any server play group ranked. What eventually happens is it becomes dominated by few teams and entry barrier becomes too high to enter, further pushing away new players. Who wants to stay in que for 15-20 minutes obliterated in 2-3 minutes arena by a much more experienced team every single time?

The solution is known and simple; cross server ques. This will allow for much larger population to participate at any give point, creating a proper match making system and reduce que time. Without it, we will group ranked will continue to be what it currently is and it will get worse, as more and more players leave the game and no new players are joining.

foxmob's Avatar

09.18.2014 , 12:19 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Ottoattack View Post
The solution is known and simple; cross server ques. This will allow for much larger population to participate at any give point, creating a proper match making system and reduce que time. Without it, we will group ranked will continue to be what it currently is and it will get worse, as more and more players leave the game and no new players are joining.
meh. not really. remember this: when 8v8 ranked finally dropped, EVERYBODY queued...for about 2-3 weeks. then the majority of guilds/teams gave up. that left the very good teams and some pugs and the elite teams. w/o the mediocre teams, the pugs and the very good teams eventually grew tired of losing to the elite teams. now it's just elite vs. elite.

institute x-server, and what you'll have is 10-15 elite teams filling up the queue. the barrier still exists. the damage has been done. I'm not sure how that issue can be reconciled, but while I'm a proponent of x-server queues, I think it's delusional to believe that will do anything but give the elite teams more competition to queue against -- at this point.

it would, however, do wonders for the solo rated queue, as it would serve as a deterrent to Q-synching and would allow for more equitable/effective matchmaking/team compositions. it would not do anything about the ungeared and trolls who seem to poison the queues on a lot of servers.

VdFExarKun's Avatar

09.18.2014 , 06:02 PM | #18
We just need Xserver, 2v2, 3v3, 8v8 and rating & rewards gone from solo ranked.

I would love to play 2v2 and 8v8 again.

KalElc's Avatar

09.19.2014 , 09:43 AM | #19
From Reddit:

Group Ranked is great in theory and encourages coordination which is excellent, but mandates the presence of enough different groups queuing to trigger diverse queue pops.

Nobody likes playing the same team again and again and again, especially if they can't win / don't understand strategies- this provides an absurdly brutal entry check on new groups. Even if they do stick and enter the small group of group ranked players queuing, chances are they will face the same core of opponents due to the size of the populations that queue.

This is the reason PvPers called for cross-server queues from day one. ELO systems exist for a reason. To not use one is ridiculous- yet this is what SWTOR has tried, and failed, at doing.
How to fix it:
Incentivize RWZs, by extension Group RWZs- an option that Conquest might work toward, but I'm skeptical people will go grouped instead of solo. This still isn't likely to increase retention of players, as you need a critical mass for ELO to function.
And / Or
Increase the player pool- I don't care how you do it. Do an Are a server like in WoW's early days; do cross-server queues, offer a free transfer to a different server, I don't care. This is likely to work best as it would allow the ELO to function, but the in erase must be significant.

In the end, Grouped RWZs has a place and should be glorified- just like Grouped Huttball should be a e-sport (but Huttball is one of the most unique things in the game). Just like Grouped Huttball, a critical population mass is necessary- and, just like Grouped Huttball, I don't see Bioware spending time to expand or stimulate it beyond basic reward bonuses that are band-aids.
This still isn't likely to increase retention of players,
This is one of my biggest issues with all of the "incentives" they've tried to throw at us to get new people playing.
They'd be far better off as far as the long term health of the system goes, IMO, concentrating on retaining the players they already have, and possibly bringing some of the old ones back. This would probably require something drastic (like the old statement about removing warzone restrictions which they later backtracked on,) so I don't really see that happening. :/
(It's not that I wouldn't want new people playing, but I'd prefer it be because they WANTED to, not because they felt like they were pushed into it.)
This is the right answer.
At the end of s1 and beginning of s2 there were only two or three teams queuing on my server (Bastion) - competitive games for sure, but consequently led to a mass exodus when Wildstar came out; players who never returned.
Surprisingly, a few teams apparently rose up to fill the absence left by the prior teams, however, they hit the same issue as the top tor tier teams earlier.

I think there are multiple fixes for BW to make ranked successful again, much of which you've mentioned above.
Another fix lies with one of the biggest issues: the existence of solo ranked. There are multiple grievances to the current system. A simple population boost for grouped is to simply remove solo ranked, which will hopefully push them to grouped.

I don't think any of these fixes will actually bring players back (with the exception of xserver), but many of these can act as stop gap measures until that capability exists.
Tomb of Freedon Nadd - The Harbinger
Skyrush (Marauder) / Sky'lash (Mercenary)
Sky'ventress (Sentinel)(Marauder)

Haystak's Avatar

09.19.2014 , 09:57 AM | #20
Go and look in the reg ques and the solo ques, and tell me how many of each class type you see over a week.

90+% of people play as a DPS on a regular basis. Of those few people who play as a tank or healer most of them only play the daily and then move on to another toon.

Im pretty sure everyone reading this has been here long enough to know that a tank and a healer are required in ranked matches

If a tank and a healer are required, that means every player who wants to do ranked has to have both a skilled/geared healer and a skilled/geared tank in their team. I can tell you from experience that finding both of these is a near impossibility, as most skilled/geared tanks and healers either have a team, are not interested in arenas because they just dont like the format, or in some cases are interested in playing but not on their tank/healer.

The single greatest thing that gets people to not que for grouped ranked is that their "group" is not suited for ranked. So they que for regs, or Yolo it up.

The next greatest thing that gets people to not que for ranked is the gearing system. Unless you have either 1 mil to blow on mk-9 kits augments, and cover cost to equip them. or you have a toon that can make them your SOL, as any toon without augs in wz period is at a severe disadvantage over some who has augs. For a straight pvp playing subscriber, making money by just pvping is a long, long and very challenging feat.

But even then thats small in comparison to the number of reg warzones you would need to do to get "preemo" equipment. Now in a healthy enviroment preemo equipment would not be required, as their would be a fair chance that the people you are playing against are also not min/maxed. SWTOR is not that, it is the exact opposite of that. Of the teams queing, almost all of them come min/maxed, or are close to it. Taking an Oboran team and placing them egainst a brutalizer team is rarely fair. Skill, yes does outweigh gear, but when were talking about a video game, the skill cap is usually not as high as I or any other veteran would care to admit. Developing skill takes two things, challenge, motivation, and time. Your not going to dedicate your time to something that is not fun to start with.

My reccomendations to remedy these two problems are more like guidelines, as I cannot really hammer down a specific way to accomplish these goals, but these two base things need to happen.

1: make changes to class balance. So that teams comprised of no healers or no tanks, are still viable. This can be done 3 billion ways, all of which would most likely piss off dedicated healers and tanks, but if you want more people to que for ranked, you have to make it so teams made up of 3 or even 4 dps are stil viable.

2: Make it so that it is easier to be viably geared for ranked. No one wants to spend 2 months grinding so that they can be ready for ranked. I know that a lot of your die hard " you gotta earn" it players are going to raise cain over this, but really its the only real way to look at it. Their are potential players out their, and if your first experience in pvp in SWTOR, is you being the newb who is going up against min/maxed players, your not going to play. Its like queing up for your first Operation and being forced to play nightmare first. Yeah you might get a few people to slug through it until they can beat it, but its going to be very few.

If you want more players to play ranked make it so that 85% of the dps classes are viable, not just a few
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