Waiting for BW to actually take a hard look at Scoundrel/Operatives and do something about their OP-GOD-LIKE PVP abilities. Every BG is infested in 2,3,4+ Operatives in every BG. They are nearly unstoppable. Self heal, vanish, stun spams, slows, blink to a player, blind, roll with an automatic immunity.

Seriously, is this a joke or are the developers just unwilling to do something about this class? Maybe that's their paying subscriber base so well, they dare not bring them back down to even level with other classes.

Waiting for BW to actually take a hard look at Scoundrel/Operatives and do something about their OP-GOD-LIKE PVP abilities. Every BG is infested in 2,3,4+ Operatives in every BG. They are nearly unstoppable. Self heal, vanish, stun spams, slows, blink to a player, blind, roll with an automatic immunity.

 

Seriously, is this a joke or are the developers just unwilling to do something about this class? Maybe that's their paying subscriber base so well, they dare not bring them back down to even level with other classes.

We all know this. Nothing will be done. It's bad when the one guy who hosts tournaments needs to make certain provisions so that some classes can hope to compete (they can't) and that this class has its own bracket because no other class can compete with them...not even Shadows/Assassins.

The deserter debuff makes this even worse. Just had one of the worst pvp experiences in this game. At least 2 people deserted, probably 3. It solved nothing, it served to make non-participation worse. It needs to be overturned.

We all know this. Nothing will be done. It's bad when the one guy who hosts tournaments needs to make certain provisions so that some classes can hope to compete (they can't) and that this class has its own bracket because no other class can compete with them...not even Shadows/Assassins.

 

The deserter debuff makes this even worse. Just had one of the worst pvp experiences in this game. At least 2 people deserted, probably 3. It solved nothing, it served to make non-participation worse. It needs to be overturned.

Agreed. So now when I get into BGs, there are usually anywhere from 2-4 Operative/Scoundrels. They go in packs like Wolves, easily destroying an entire team. We even had a match where ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE was able to stop 5 of us from capping our base and we could not kill him. This is not be facetious or puffing up lies, this is a FACT!!! I still have yet to understand why Operatives can pump up so much damage AND heal like a healer. Even Slingers/Snipers cannot heal like that. In fact, they cannot heal much at all.

But when I look at the match results, I see Operatives hitting for every bit as much, if not far more, than Slingers/Snipers and healing for nearly 1/2 their damage.

Tell me, who the heck at BW thought this class should be in GOD mode for PVP???? Either NERF them or disallow them from battlegrounds. We need fair, even play in PVP. If they can't do it, remove PVP from the game so those of us who DO like fair PVP play can find a game that CAN!

Side note, every match today has been 4 man since it's early.

50% of every team we face has operatives. Meaning every match today we've faced a min of 2 operatives.

One team we faced was 2 operatives, 2 shadows.

We lost in 10 seconds.

Oh joy, what fun. At least the losses are quick.

PS: On my Sent, they took 3/4 of my health in the first 2 seconds.

Oh, look. It’s yet another “nerf Operatives/Scoundrels now!” thread. Everybody’s favorite subject. One skilled Merc/Commando with electro net can break an Op/Scoundrel. It’s worse if more than one person can focus that Op/Scoundrel once they’re netted. Packs of Ops/Scoundrels can be a problem, but packs of anything focusing you can be a problem. Use teamwork, and Ops/Scoundrels go down. They’re easy to take out in any team situation that isn’t huttball, where I’ll fully admit is where Ops/Scoundrels become nearly unstoppable.

We even had a match where ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE was able to stop 5 of us from capping our base and we could not kill him. This is not be facetious or puffing up lies, this is a FACT!!!

Really? Five people? No one thought to stun and global the Op? I’ve seen two people held off multiple times. I’ve even seen three people held off. But five? Either you are exaggerating, or you were surrounded by people who had no clue what they were doing.

Oh, look. It’s yet another “nerf Operatives/Scoundrels now!” thread. Everybody’s favorite subject. One skilled Merc/Commando with electro net can break an Op/Scoundrel. It’s worse if more than one person can focus that Op/Scoundrel once they’re netted. Packs of Ops/Scoundrels can be a problem, but packs of anything focusing you can be a problem. Use teamwork, and Ops/Scoundrels go down. They’re easy to take out in any team situation that isn’t huttball, where I’ll fully admit is where Ops/Scoundrels become nearly unstoppable.

 

 

 

Really? Five people? No one thought to stun and global the Op? I’ve seen two people held off multiple times. I’ve even seen three people held off. But five? Either you are exaggerating, or you were surrounded by people who had no clue what they were doing.

Oper can be a pain in the *** if he gets to your pylon first in hypergate wz. It is very possible that OP team didn't have mercs in his/her team so oper needed only to hit once to interrupt the cap, then spam rolls and self-heals forever.

And yes, there are lots of people in regs who have no clue what they are doing XD

If only Electro Net can stop oper/scoundrel (which has 1.30 min CD) that only proves OP point, this class is broken. Don't you think it's kind of weird if teamwork is required to take down another enemy player like if he is a game boss or something?

Oh, look. It’s yet another “nerf Operatives/Scoundrels now!” thread. Everybody’s favorite subject. One skilled Merc/Commando with electro net can break an Op/Scoundrel. It’s worse if more than one person can focus that Op/Scoundrel once they’re netted. Packs of Ops/Scoundrels can be a problem, but packs of anything focusing you can be a problem. Use teamwork, and Ops/Scoundrels go down. They’re easy to take out in any team situation that isn’t huttball, where I’ll fully admit is where Ops/Scoundrels become nearly unstoppable.

 

 

 

Really? Five people? No one thought to stun and global the Op? I’ve seen two people held off multiple times. I’ve even seen three people held off. But five? Either you are exaggerating, or you were surrounded by people who had no clue what they were doing.

This post is screaming operative one trick

This post is screaming operative one trick

I mean.. 5 people really should be able to take out 1 guy, no matter what he plays. If 5 players can't take out one operative, the 5 people really are in fact bad.

Oh, look. It’s yet another “nerf Operatives/Scoundrels now!” thread. Everybody’s favorite subject.

There is a very good reason for that. They have been on top for as long as I can remember. The class has been on top for most of my time (perhaps all) in this game and when players ask for adjustments to this dominance, operative players come out in droves to whine about it as though they're the victims of said dominance.

One skilled Merc/Commando with electro net can break an Op/Scoundrel. It’s worse if more than one person can focus that Op/Scoundrel once they’re netted.

If there is a Commando on the team, the Commando is in the area, and he or she is skilled at the class.

Use teamwork, and Ops/Scoundrels go down. They’re easy to take out in any team situation that isn’t huttball, where I’ll fully admit is where Ops/Scoundrels become nearly unstoppable.

You don't see a problem with multiple people need to gang up on ONE member of ONE class to stop him?

Really? Five people? No one thought to stun and global the Op? I’ve seen two people held off multiple times. I’ve even seen three people held off. But five? Either you are exaggerating, or you were surrounded by people who had no clue what they were doing.

Again, you don't see a problem with three people being stymied by ONE operative?

I get enjoying this level of dominance for a year or two...but this has gone on for the better part of a decade. Any other class on top would be very refreshing. ANY other class.

Don't you think it's kind of weird if teamwork is required to take down another enemy player like if he is a game boss or something?

You don't see a problem with multiple people need to gang up on ONE member of ONE class to stop him?

There are classes that are designed to be able to buy some time = don't die fast. Operative roll can be quite annoying, but don't forget a well kiting sorc with phasewalk and barrier, or Assassins with 2 vanishs. And they all have one thing in common: While stalling time, they won't kill anything. Healers can stall multiple people even longer, or the absolute unkillable demon kings: jugg tanks with defensive gear, grit teeth and maybe even force bound. Good luck killing one of these guys even once per match, no matter if they have a healer or not.

It's not a new thing that you're not able to kill someone on your own, it has always required team focus to kill some targets.

Again, you don't see a problem with three people being stymied by ONE operative?

when 3 people can't deal with 1 operative, they are just dogsh*t.

I get enjoying this level of dominance for a year or two...but this has gone on for the better part of a decade. Any other class on top would be very refreshing. ANY other class.

I think you're very wrong. (Concealment) Operatives act very much on their own, or support others, but gain very little by getting supported compared to other classes.

There really is no such thing as an "unstoppable force of operatives" that I would fear when entering a reg. They would be annoying and global someone here and there but that's it. But with a class like Jugg, PT or Sorc on top, therefore multiple of them stacked, whole teams would get obliterated in seconds by their offense. If you make Merc OP again, you will complain about Net, if you make Engi Sniper OP again, you will complain about the Engi void.

Trust me, Ops being strong is better for the game than most other classes.

There are classes that are designed to be able to buy some time = don't die fast. While stalling time, they won't kill anything.

.

Nah that's BS, 150% reflect while being immune to all damage and being healed during that time can and will kill anyone eventually and I've seen it a lot of times. You can kite juggs when they use Enraged Defence, you can interrupt healers, but you cant do **** against oper when he kites you, unless you don't have a teammate to help you. Something has to be done to make it fair, maybe other classes should be buffed instead of nerfing opers idk, a lot of players are pissed off, even some oper mains complain about being OP.

I understand how Covid has impacted EA's ability to add more content.

What I don't understand is why we can get some basic balancing changes. Operative is crazy. Hatred Assasin has been a joke since this expansion hit. I mean not even playable in PVP.

Just a few examples.

Nah that's BS, 150% reflect while being immune to all damage and being healed during that time can and will kill anyone eventually and I've seen it a lot of times. You can kite juggs when they use Enraged Defence, you can interrupt healers, but you cant do **** against oper when he kites you, unless you don't have a teammate to help you. Something has to be done to make it fair, maybe other classes should be buffed instead of nerfing opers idk, a lot of players are pissed off, even some oper mains complain about being OP.

You are mixing up many different things here:

Merc reflect: takes 0 damage from single target hits, reflects 50% of each hit, each hit heals the merc. All AoE and DoT damage goes through.

Oper reflect utility on evasion: takes 100% damage from single target yellow hits, reflects 150% of each hit. All AoE and DoT damage goes through. If the Oper isn't stunned, all white damage is dodged (because of Evasion). If the Oper is stunned, all white damage goes through (because Dodge does not work while stunned). In both cases white damage is not reflected.

And once again, an Oper constantly rolling around and LOsing doesn't do damage. They have a very strong (maybe OP) burst window, but outside of that they are hitting you with marshmellows. If you hit into reflect, that's on you.

So much for your information. Now on topic: I'm not against nerfing ops at all. The reflect utility is probably too strong, aswell as the double hardstun setbonus combined with the incredibly low cooldown. But opers aren't nearly as OP or as "dominant" as people say here, that's all I'm saying.

I rather fight an army of OP ops than an army of OP PTs or OP Sorcs.

If you make Merc OP again, you will complain about Net, if you make Engi Sniper OP again, you will complain about the Engi void.

Maybe...I'd definitely complain about net. Don't like that at all. The reflect AND stealth are what bother me about operative, though.

Trust me, Ops being strong is better for the game than most other classes.

I would be interested to know your perspective on this, unless you detailed it above already.

But opers aren't nearly as OP or as "dominant" as people say here, that's all I'm saying.

I was referring mostly to 1voperative, 2voperative, and 3voperative situations. But you're right. If it takes three people, they're probably not well versed at their classes.

I rather fight an army of OP ops than an army of OP PTs or OP Sorcs.

When class stacking, all three of those would be nightmarish.

I understand how Covid has impacted EA's ability to add more content.

 

What I don't understand is why we can get some basic balancing changes. Operative is crazy. Hatred Assasin has been a joke since this expansion hit. I mean not even playable in PVP.

 

Just a few examples.

This is not true.

Oper can be a pain in the *** if he gets to your pylon first in hypergate wz. It is very possible that OP team didn't have mercs in his/her team so oper needed only to hit once to interrupt the cap, then spam rolls and self-heals forever.

And yes, there are lots of people in regs who have no clue what they are doing XD

 

If only Electro Net can stop oper/scoundrel (which has 1.30 min CD) that only proves OP point, this class is broken. Don't you think it's kind of weird if teamwork is required to take down another enemy player like if he is a game boss or something?

This.

You are mixing up many different things here:

Id rather fight an army of OP ops than an army of OP PTs or OP Sorcs.

I'd rather not fight an army of FOTM classes in every BG....tbh.

Agreed. So now when I get into BGs, there are usually anywhere from 2-4 Operative/Scoundrels. They go in packs like Wolves, easily destroying an entire team. We even had a match where ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE was able to stop 5 of us from capping our base and we could not kill him. This is not be facetious or puffing up lies, this is a FACT!!! I still have yet to understand why Operatives can pump up so much damage AND heal like a healer. Even Slingers/Snipers cannot heal like that. In fact, they cannot heal much at all.

 

But when I look at the match results, I see Operatives hitting for every bit as much, if not far more, than Slingers/Snipers and healing for nearly 1/2 their damage.

 

Tell me, who the heck at BW thought this class should be in GOD mode for PVP???? Either NERF them or disallow them from battlegrounds. We need fair, even play in PVP. If they can't do it, remove PVP from the game so those of us who DO like fair PVP play can find a game that CAN!

No offense but if 5 players can't kill ONE operative, it means that those players are just very bad ... Based on what I see in unranked nowdays, I am quite certain this is the case.

Operatives have always been in a good spot and " nerf operative" threads are quite frequent on the PVP forums. They are strong due to the design of their class . They have many tools for survival ! Their DPS was quite mediocre in 5.0 but people were still complaining about them being OP and were asking for nerfs.

Sadly the arguments you make in this post are quite weak, because it just shows that those players were just horrible PVP-ers. If you want to properly balance, you shouldn't look at operatives only !

But balance will never happen in this game because it's been 10 years almost and we are still making threads about " balancing" for pvp. Never going to happen, man. At least not the way we'd like.

No offense but if 5 players can't kill ONE operative, it means that those players are just very bad ... Based on what I see in unranked nowdays, I am quite certain this is the case.

 

Operatives have always been in a good spot and " nerf operative" threads are quite frequent on the PVP forums. They are strong due to the design of their class . They have many tools for survival ! Their DPS was quite mediocre in 5.0 but people were still complaining about them being OP and were asking for nerfs.

 

Sadly the arguments you make in this post are quite weak, because it just shows that those players were just horrible PVP-ers. If you want to properly balance, you shouldn't look at operatives only !

 

But balance will never happen in this game because it's been 10 years almost and we are still making threads about " balancing" for pvp. Never going to happen, man. At least not the way we'd like.

That is one of the best posts you have made and I agree with much of it. You're right. Balance cannot happen by nerfing (or buffing) only one class...and it's probably not going to happen the way we would like. My opinion is that operatives are too strong :mad:

--but your argument makes sense.

going to make a tell all post about the oper class, why people struggle with it, why it does in fact outperform every class 1v1 and why while it has fotm currently it hasnt for much of swtors time.

Why is it better at 1v1s:

because they have a version of nearly every dcd in swtor and lower cds on most relevant ones + effective dps offhealing.

"Dodge"

150% yellow direct damage reflect, 3 seconds on con, 5 on lethality.

200% white damage deflect if not stunned. (sniper cannot hardstun, sniper hardstun is white.)

dodge cleanse all effects except e-net and stun

"Dodge" cd has a reduced cd, of 3 seconds every 1 sec of 2m cd from all dmg, including DoT, AoE and direct burst

that is 1 cd. 3 sec duration on con, 5 on lethality why is it op? because reduced cd +too many positive effects

"Dodge Roll"

Resist all damage, effects, roots, stuns and knockbacks for 1.5 seconds. Stacks twice, with 8 sec cd for each.

"why is it op?" because duo kolto probe does all its healing inside dodgeroll. You are right, they do no dmg... they heal tho for somewhere around 15k

side note: dodge roll looks like "dodge" and the resist effect last for .5 after character is fully stood up. most abilitys in swtor, "big" abilitys, have 5-15 sec cd... some require dmg inflicted for procs/effects to continue... hit them in their bubble and you just lost your whole rotation. putting you on at least 15 sec cd.. which they may roll

Countermeasures Movement Cleanse: 45 sec cd, cleanse enet slow, allow ez pz LoS. Stop using enet excuse, it's irritating for those of us who know how to play oper.

Stuns:

Flashbang, without the help of a "insta cast" ability, or a utility, this 45 sec cd, 8 sec duration cc hits up to 8 targets and requires no cast.

Debilitate, 4 second hardstun with a 35 sec cd, the shortest hardstun in swtor by a full 10 seconds. 15% alacrity will knock 4 seconds off, 31 sec cd

legroot, A literal self contained LoS mechanic, oper leg root, will stop you from turning allowing 4 seconds of free dmg to backside. this ability has a 15 second cd. no other root in swtor cept sniper stops turning. crippling counterplay outside of cleanse root

Heals:

2 kolto probes each "1" doing as much as a sorc HoT. but you have 2. they are automated, removing the gcd that mercs deal with. this is on dps specs. they heal 4k-7k with both hot. Kolto cast for con has a 1.5 or 2 sec cast, I forget and heals for 15k-24k. I forget the exact numbers, but I mained lethality op for a long time and my kolto hit 24k ez crit

And finaly "movement" a melee dps oper can not only move away with roll, but they can move toward a foe OR a friendly. that is 3 movement options. roll is on 8 sec cd, teleport on 45 I believe (I forget, might be 30) both lower cds than maddash and intercede on jugg/maras. faster than force speed 15 sec, and equal to phantom stride 30 sec

lastly, dps. dps, opers have never had. in 2020 swtor, an oper can hit you for 150k in 3 global cds with volatile substance, veiled strike, backstab. (if this has changed in my absence speak up, I heard there was an oper tactical nerf back in like march or feb)

In conclusion what makes opers stronger in every way is portable LoS, (leg root and dodge roll) haveing nearly every dcd in swtor, best aoe cc barring carbonize and sniper aoe cc... and literaly the best hard stun in the game, and for everything another class can do, an oper can do and better. I will provide 1 ex, seeing as I was a sin main for 3 years before I branched out.

deception sin vs con oper.

Not going into oper burst vs sin, because its parsing, and meaningless in pvp. 07

Countermeasures Movement Cleanse: 45 sec cd, cleanse enet slow, allow ez pz LoS. Stop using enet excuse, it's irritating for those of us who know how to play oper.

Bravo sir, you just embarrassed all the "just net the op" folks.

Just to add to what this guy said, I believe operative can also purge roots using toxic scan/triage or even trick move if they feel its necessary.

lol OP plz stop trolling, look what you have done to the forum

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=985917

"melee classes and Sorcs utterly destroying everyone in their path"

"Melee does way too much damage, too many gap closers, too much healing, too much CC";

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=983677

"It's high time you took away roll immunity and cut healing by 75% (so they are on par with other classes) and make Operatives have to work as hard as other classes for kills"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=981417

"Can't get Sentinels off me"

"Vanguards take 1/2 your health in the first second"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=977392

"ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE can stop 8 players from capping a base"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=976849

"Any team with 1 or more Scoundrel/Operative can keep an entire opposing team busy while the other bases are capped"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=975698

"It makes Warcraft's ROGUE's look like clowns"

"PLEASE NERF THEM HARD"

"Make SWTOR (PVP) Great Again!"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=975809

"fixing the OVERPOWER problems with Shadows and Scoundrels"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9802440&postcount=5

"Considering how way OP Juggernauts are right now, I am not sure why every single player in the game isn't playing one."

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=973072

"SIth side that is topping DPS"

"It seems that Juggernauts are nearly unkillable, best defenses and self healing"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=968693

"how Juggs are allowed to even entrer PVP when they are unkillable, have so much defense and so much damage"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=968317

"Please nerf Juggernauts"

"Literally destroy everything they touch in PVP"

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=968247

"Marauders, Operatives and Sages easily withstanding attacks from 2-3 enemies at a time in PVP, yet my shadow is easily destroyed by any of those classes in 1v1."

No offense but if 5 players can't kill ONE operative, it means that those players are just very bad ... Based on what I see in unranked nowdays, I am quite certain this is the case.

 

Operatives have always been in a good spot and " nerf operative" threads are quite frequent on the PVP forums. They are strong due to the design of their class . They have many tools for survival ! Their DPS was quite mediocre in 5.0 but people were still complaining about them being OP and were asking for nerfs.

 

Sadly the arguments you make in this post are quite weak, because it just shows that those players were just horrible PVP-ers. If you want to properly balance, you shouldn't look at operatives only !

 

But balance will never happen in this game because it's been 10 years almost and we are still making threads about " balancing" for pvp. Never going to happen, man. At least not the way we'd like.

Actually this is a weak argument. Only one class, that I am aware of, that can stop an operative. A MERC/COMMANDO. So there's one class that can "hope" to stop an operative. If its 1v5 and neither Merc or Commando are there, then perhaps you'll understand why ONE SINGLE OPERATIVE can use LOS, heals, vanish, etc to stop 5 other players from capping a base.

So Operatives are topping DPS, heals and can single handedly prevent over 1/2 a team from capturing a base. If the nerf to Operatives damage and utilities are not coming, then the best thing SWTOR can give the other classes a way to slow them down.

If popping out, interrupting, healing, rolling to the other side (where they are immune DURING roll and 2 seconds after) is going to stay this way, then just remove the class from the game. Even Shadows/Assasins cannot do this to 1/2 a team and stop them from capping.

They can do it to 1 player, but not 5.