I'm done with the space mission BS, I'm usually decent enough at twitch games, but this is nonsense. I failed the Cha Raaba Assault mission now 10 times in a row with tier 7 equipment.

 

You get to the asteroid field and then destroy the 2 merc ships, easy as pie so far, then comes the mine field, the mines have shields and take several hits to kill, so I use my ECM there, otherwise I get blow up my them, no matter how much I evade and roll. Then comes the frigate and then the next wave of merc ships which can hit you even when you don't see them. I always die horribly in this part.

 

There is a difference between challenging and stupidly hard, this is not fun and I will probably forget that a space part exists for now.

I would suggest then, creating a thread to suggest rebalancing the Space Missions. It is quite possible that they do indeed need to be toned down a bit to make them more managable. Wouldn't be the first time something like this happened in any MMO.

BJ

Am I reading and understanding the following right....

 

 

Grade 7 items I know of ingame cost a huge amount of daily / fleet commendations as well as pricey craftable objects... so giving them out day 1 of the new heroic space missions, in a Cartel pack...

circumventing all ingame crafting/grinding by throwing real world money at them...

is that not by definition "Pay2Win" Space Missions ???

:rak_02:

nope not pay to win but more like the eazy button way as you can get it by other means

what a sad path this game is walking, like I anticipated all the shiny fun stuff from now on will be available mostly on cartel shop. only 3 ship upgrades available from vendor, rest are only from cartel shop..

 

pay2win garbage, last time i resubd.

All of the ship upgrades can be grabbed in game. 2 for 500 a piece on fleet com, 2 schematics for 700 fleet coms a piece, 2 on the Daily coms vendor (ilum/bh/section x) for 150 each and 1 schematic on Daily com vendor for 200 a piece. The power/shield swap is 300k on Fleet.

I also don't approve of what they did here though. But I guess it asks the question, how many people are going to actually do space missions now because that option is there? They are still the same ****tastic mini game that no one wanted.

But I guess it asks the question, how many people are going to actually do space missions now because that option is there? .

That the WHOLE point.

I was looking forward to gearing up my ship.

Doing missions every day, having a hard time because I'm partly grade 7, then slowly but surely getting one piece at a time, and getting the missions done more easily.

You know. THE PURPOSE OF A ROLE PLAYING GAME!

But now... Mega flop. You can't really do missions UNLESS you have almost full grade 7 gear. (ok I did suceed one today with only 2 pieces...)

I'll be back after Christmas for 1.7

the devs even commented on it and about it, and why they felt it would not compromise PvP. Even for a level 10 player hopping into PvP, the crystals do not = pay 2 win.. and you know it.

I bought and equipped 2 pink +41 endurance crystals on a lvl 39 pvp toon. I can tell you I feel the difference even "only" 11 lvls before the "cap". Since those can be found at the GTN for 80k, well ok... Everyone could do it... But that's not the point here...

The difference in HPs when bolstered is big, even at lvl 39 : it *has* won me tons of 1v1 an even a couple 2v1 in wzs I would have lost for sure without them...

Still their "they felt it wouldn't compromise" spin is just as much a spin as your "and you know it" spin, and you know it.

I don't understand how people can still try to explain the space pieces sold at the CS as not being P2W when on top of that it rewards BH coms, and later box with stabs and matrix in them...

The thing is : it's all tied, the fact that the comm cost for each piece is so high, the fact you get BH comms as rewards, and stabs in boxes and that in the end those parts end up in the CS.

 

Honestly, the whole Starship Upgrade scenario is a bit absurd in itself. Since the players that run starship missions are a small segment of the population, it seems like more of a test to me by BW/EA than anything else, a guage of how much players will tolerate in regard to the convenience factor. It certainly is on the slippery slope of what players deem acceptable in the store.

 

This is my entire argument and it was called whining about buying ship parts that I can get for free by doing missions at a pathetically low reward rate. As I said earlier, this is a toe in the water to test the temperature before they dive in. If you let them do this, they will move to the next minority, probably PvP.

People are tossing in XP boosts to strawman their arguments. Here's the thing... if you look at a Free to Play account and a Subscription account, what is the XP gain difference between the two? Now, look at an XP boost that lasts a fixed length of time. The XP boost is no different than a weekend pass meant for Free to Play to spend money to gain experience at the same rate as a sub for a short amount of time and then, EA hopes, but another boost and spend more than $15 per month in weekend passes than they would on a sub. It's a weekend pass that lasts 3 hours and not 3 days.

If you let EA start selling real gear to shortcut grinding, you will see them putting more and more in here. Maybe it's not Pay to Win. That's not the issue. The issue is if you, the community, let them get a precedent in place by using something very few people in this game care about or do, they will use that at the next level. By then, it will be "Well, you didn't care about it before. Why do you care about it now. In fact, you thought it was great before." So yeah, go on and fight over what is pay to win and what is not so that while EA has you arguing among yourselves over my wallet is bigger than yours so I don't care, they can be planning the next step in the big haul to milk you for cash.

Knock yourselves out!

I just wrote this for the life day cartel packs argument happening a few doors down on the forum. But I felt it could actually work well here too for this subject.

----

Loads of bickering and arguing here, as always. The have and the have-nots going to war. Cash shops are poison plain and simple. It is corruption at its purest form. People support them and people don't. But it's the people who support and use them that help spread the disease.

 

"But these cash shops help keep the game alive and improve it!" some people say.

 

Really? So you think that a company that is being controlled at it's highest levels by the most greedy deceptive corporation, well one of em at least, in the business isn't going to continue to force anything that players would want or find tempting at all straight into the cash shop?

 

Like EA is going to say "Hey fellow pig dogs, look at all this money pouring in from our gambling packs and recolored armors that are already in the game!" and then say.

"Ok, we made enough money for now, hey Bioware!"

 

"Yes my dark lords of satan!" Jeff Hickman replies.

 

"We have made enough money this year from your silly online game, you can release future content straight into the game for now." EA great satan says.

 

"Oh thank you my lord!" Hickman snivels as he shuffles into the shadows.

 

Yeah, I highly doubt it. All this cash shop will reinforce is that they can make a lot more money at a faster rate then subscribers paying their fees. It will show the pigs at the top that too. Which will and has already lead to things being directly funneled into the shop and not the game, via Life Day Items, Cathar, and whatever else will pop up in it and not the actual game.

 

"Well troll, the players don't have to buy them if they don't want them." or "The player doesn't have to buy them, they can wait till it gets put on the GTN for a incredibly retarded amount of credits."

 

True and true. But that player and other players like him/her might buckle in the desire for said content and pay which just helps spread the disease. Or certain players might buy said content for the sole reason of selling it on the GTN to fatten their virtual pockets, which in turn also spreads the corruption of the cash shop.

 

This is why f2p and sub/cash shop games are a virus infecting and destroying this once great genre of gaming. And we are all already infected.

Cash Shops aren't the problem, how they are used are. STO had a fantastic Cash shop, where most of the stuff you buy is either just convenience or cosmetic yet, potentially to EA's amazement, they make quite a lot of money for it.

Have any of you tried the new space missions? They're impossible. I actually bought the packs for my ship to give it the best gear available and after about 10 attempts at one space mission I pretty much am ready to give up.

Yes. I did beat one (in the checklist) only to die in the 30 seconds at the end with the mass of destroyers blasting me from below and behind with no way to target them. So you can beat at least one of them with a little luck, lots of dodging, and 7 grade 7 ship parts. I bought the offensive pack with complimentary coins and broke down and paid $5 for the defensive pack when a good offense wasn't a good defense. I am not going to spend cash for the boosters.

But talking strategy in a thread for complaint is just out of place. lol

I guess that BW is watching closely the reaction on so called P2W space missions and maybe change it soon.

The irony is that BW must have watched closely feedback on PTS fora when they decided to put entire ship T7 armor in cartel market. But only BW is to blame, right?

mmmm im pretty sure i read a Dev interview before F2P where he clearly stated that cartel shop would NEVER have high end items, he said almost literally "we are definetively against Pay to Win model and we will make sure our shop will never have P2W options"

Now we have top tier gear for our ships on the shop, theres no need to grind it, just throw some real money and BAM, ship is top geared.

In my book this is P2W. So i see 2 possibilities:

1) They have just change their mind, P2W will be from now on a cratel option.

2) They doesnt even consider space missions an ingame system

I really hope #2 is the correct one, i dont carte a **** about space missions, but worries me to think that space missions are just the start point to slowly insert P2W items in the shop that affect PVE and PVP.

I think a clarification is most needed

 

The MMO genre used to be a great equalizer. Where the rich and the poor came together on equal footing, and interacted in ways that stripped them of any predisposed class separations.

 

It is either an unfortunate side effect, or a direct goal, that cash shops should create divides in real world financial classes within the MMO genre.

 

And it's sad.

.

This is exactly what I think as well. I can buy all the ****** upgrades but I don't want to. This is just ***-hole attitude from Bioware to make you pay so that you can do the new missions.

They should not be asking for more money from a subscriber. This alone will probably make me quit if they don't re-think.. not to mention when they expand to different areas of the game which now seems inevitable.

I was really looking forward to the new space missions but these ship gear packs ruined the whole update for me. It's not just the new missions, in a sense the whole space subgame is now ruined by being too greedy.

 

Where is the sense of progress and achievement when you can get the best items for 10 bucks.

 

This is the first time I've actually considered changing my 6 month sub to something shorter. They promised and promised but its now pretty clear they don't understand where the line should be drawn. This put a serious dent in my faith for the future of the game.

This is part of the problem with P2W it undermines everything. It's effectively the same as being able to buy cheatcodes in single player games.

You do realize that a huge portion of wows population is Chinese accounts? You do realize that the game is more established than this game and has 9 years under it's belt? You do realize that even if the game does release a bad expansion people will still play it because of time invested? It takes a long time for an MMO to die. You do realize it dropped over 2 million subs in the past year right? K.

"Would he die for you?"

"I would die for him."

"I didn't ask that. I asked, if he would die for you"

"...."

"Never fall on your sword for someone that wouldn't do the same for you"

So I ask you, oh gentle forum goer. Is this game as loyal to you, as you are to it?

We aint talking about cosmetics, unlocks etc... I have no issues with lifeday items or any other cartel market item.

 

We are talking about "Pay2win" which is the purchasing of top level itemistaion for real money, circumventing all ingame efforts/competition to acquire said gear.

 

Ingame, acquiring Grade 7 Spaceship Items ... will cost you 300k credits, 1500 Fleet Comms and 300 Daily Comms to get all the non-schematic parts. Then additional cost for craftables, patterns etc.

Well to be perfectly honest you can always go that route in other games. I bought tons of gold to use in wow so I wouldn't have to run dailies, especially in bc and woltk. I didn't buy any in cataclysm cause I didn't like the changes Blizzard did to the game. Had BW not allowed you to buy the parts directly people would just buy credits from third parties and so long as the parts aren't bop and can be bought on gtm you can circumvent the repetitive dailies.

As for game companies banning players who buy gold/credits it rarely happens. They don't bite the hand that is feeding them. They go after gold farmers and sellers, but very rarely gold buyers. In fact, you could buy gold in wow now and you will never get banned. The same is true of botting. At the end the only thing that matters for them is the bottom line, cash. Thus, you won't get banned for buying credits. At worst, they just get rid of some of your stuff or give you temp ban. Personally, I never gotten a warning of any kind when comes to gold buying. I even did it in swg in the early days besides it's just pve. I only consider p2w if it involves pvp.

Well to be perfectly honest you can always go that route in other games. I bought tons of gold to use in wow so I wouldn't have to run dailies, especially in bc and woltk. I didn't buy any in cataclysm cause I didn't like the changes Blizzard did to the game. Had BW not allowed you to buy the parts directly people would just buy credits from third parties and so long as the parts aren't bop and can be bought on gtm you can circumvent the repetitive dailies.

So you can make cash to buy the items off the GTN... by doing daily's. To circumvent the repetitive daily's.

I dont even.

As for game companies banning players who buy gold/credits it rarely happens. They don't bite the hand that is feeding them. They go after gold farmers and sellers, but very rarely gold buyers. In fact, you could buy gold in wow now and you will never get banned. The same is true of botting. At the end the only thing that matters for them is the bottom line, cash. Thus, you won't get banned for buying credits. At worst, they just get rid of some of your stuff or give you temp ban. Personally, I never gotten a warning of any kind when comes to gold buying. I even did it in swg in the early days besides it's just pve. I only consider p2w if it involves pvp.

So you can make cash to buy the items off the GTN... by doing daily's. To circumvent the repetitive daily's.

I dont even.

It's faster. It would take a month or two in bc of farming and selling crafted goods for hours each day to make 5k-10k or you can buy 30k off a gold seller in 5 minutes. In two days you have 30k. The max I had was around 55k in bc, which is a lot of gold for back then. Ironically, I had more gold in bc than what I did in woltk or cataclysm.

It's faster. It would take a month or two in bc of farming and selling crafted goods for hours each day to make 5k-10k or you can buy 30k off a gold seller in 5 minutes. In two days you have 30k. The max I had was around 55k in bc, which is a lot of gold for back then. Ironically, I had more gold in bc than what I did in woltk or cataclysm.

Oh, you're talking about WoW..

Ya, I just usually locked my one week cloth / bar timers and sold that for huge money.

Or, enchanting. Enchanting 450 was a licences to print money. No really.

Too bad there isnt something like that here.

Well to be perfectly honest you can always go that route in other games. I bought tons of gold to use in wow so I wouldn't have to run dailies, especially in bc and woltk. I didn't buy any in cataclysm cause I didn't like the changes Blizzard did to the game. Had BW not allowed you to buy the parts directly people would just buy credits from third parties and so long as the parts aren't bop and can be bought on gtm you can circumvent the repetitive dailies.

 

As for game companies banning players who buy gold/credits it rarely happens. They don't bite the hand that is feeding them. They go after gold farmers and sellers, but very rarely gold buyers. In fact, you could buy gold in wow now and you will never get banned. The same is true of botting. At the end the only thing that matters for them is the bottom line, cash. Thus, you won't get banned for buying credits. At worst, they just get rid of some of your stuff or give you temp ban. Personally, I never gotten a warning of any kind when comes to gold buying. I even did it in swg in the early days besides it's just pve. I only consider p2w if it involves pvp.

Gold buying is up to you, I dislike it, but it's not the company itself doing it (generally they do try to shut down gold sellers it is just a never ending battle).

But P2W is the company itself joining in.

So instead of level playing field, you get a sloped one if you pay more.

Am I reading and understanding the following right....

 

 

Grade 7 items I know of ingame cost a huge amount of daily / fleet commendations as well as pricey craftable objects... so giving them out day 1 of the new heroic space missions, in a Cartel pack...

circumventing all ingame crafting/grinding by throwing real world money at them...

is that not by definition "Pay2Win" Space Missions ???

:rak_02:

Pay 2 Win space missions you say? I didn't realise space PvP was part of 1.6...oh wait

So you are QQing that you have an option to purchase grade 7 comps from the CS....you are also QQing that you have the option to grind them out in game for no real world money.

It would take what, maybe a month to farm all the comms to buy grade 7 comp's....a bit like it takes a month or two to farm the comms etc for the best raid / PvP gear in the game.

Should the best space gear in the game not also take maybe a month to farm? Or do away with the grind and buy them...

Not sure what the problem is here tbh....

Driz

Pay 2 Win space missions you say? I didn't realise space PvP was part of 1.6...oh wait

 

So you are QQing that you have an option to purchase grade 7 comps from the CS....you are also QQing that you have the option to grind them out in game for no real world money.

 

It would take what, maybe a month to farm all the comms to buy grade 7 comp's....a bit like it takes a month or two to farm the comms etc for the best raid / PvP gear in the game.

 

Should the best space gear in the game not also take maybe a month to farm? Or do away with the grind and buy them...

 

Not sure what the problem is here tbh....

 

Driz

P2W is exactly what you discribe (it has nothing to do with PvP other than that being a terrible place for it), circumventing gameplay by paying RL cash to do so.

That is P2W.

This is why f2p and sub/cash shop games are a virus infecting and destroying this once great genre of gaming. And we are all already infected.

Welcome to progress. It could be that f2p is what saves the genre when the old way of gaming and thinking would run it into the ground. People can hate WoW all they want, but the only reason we still have an MMO genre is because of WoW. If it wasn't Blizzard, it would have been another game company making a game just like WoW. The days of the poopsocker are over; the era of the ganker has ended; the age of the parents-basement dwelling troll have passed. This and things like Steam and Origin are the future of the genre. Society has changed and is continuing to change and so must our forms of entertainment. Like it or not that is progress and not disease.

BJ

Welcome to progress. It could be that f2p is what saves the genre when the old way of gaming and thinking would run it into the ground. People can hate WoW all they want, but the only reason we still have an MMO genre is because of WoW. If it wasn't Blizzard, it would have been another game company making a game just like WoW. The days of the poopsocker are over; the era of the ganker has ended; the age of the parents-basement dwelling troll have passed. This and things like Steam and Origin are the future of the genre. Society has changed and is continuing to change and so must our forms of entertainment. Like it or not that is progress and not disease.

 

BJ

Actually I think if it weren't for WoW we might have the old system, small developers putting out innovative MMORPGs.

Instead we have everyone trying to "do a WoW" and failing badly with little to no innovation.

I don't see F2P changing this, in fact I see it making it all much worse.

im disgusted that this crap is on the cartel market, honestly last night you should have heard me on TS with my guildies once i logged in to look at the new space missions, thats the one thing i wanted cause i enjoy them. but its impossible for me to complete them with the current gear i have on my ship, so now i have to either fork out money or spend the next 2 months grinding older content before i can even look at attempting the new space missions.

you can stick your cash shop up your arse, i have not spent a penny on it and i will continue to not spend a penny on it. im going to spend the next 2 months grinding just to say FU EA

P2W is exactly what you discribe (it has nothing to do with PvP other than that being a terrible place for it), circumventing gameplay by paying RL cash to do so.

 

That is P2W.

the TRUTH. People act like it's only can be applied to PvP.