Sloopik Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Taugrim has a good breakdown based on what guilds are where and their numbers. Read his top entry concerning Empire imbalance. The only servers it doesn't account for is RP-PVP. ^^ Sorry forgot to post the link, here it is. http://taugrim.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldorf Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Last time an MMO introduced a 3rd faction they started to die out faster then any other MMO created (CoH/V). 2 Faction MMOs work fine, its how they are managed by the devs and the players. WoW is the most successful with 2 major factions and they have the biggest balance issues when it comes to their PvP server populations, ToR will be fine, as well it is STILL far to early to make any real judgment so the foilhats are not needed. WoW PvP only works because the great majority of it is instanced and the cross server system helps to cut down on the queue times generated by the faction imbalances. The only part that wasn't instanced when I last played (Wintergrasp) was a total flop - at least on my server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Tell me again why server imbalance matters at all with instanced PvP? World PvP here isn't really an issue, the game doesn't revolve around it. That leaves warzones which don't start until theres an equal number of players in queue for it to begin so that doesn't matter either. If anything, a faction imbalance is a BOON for the underdog because you will be in queue for much less time than the side with more players. What's the issue here..I'm not seeing it? Btw I played Alliance on several Horde dominated servers because I wanted to actually PvP, not sit around in a city staring at a vendor waiting for my queue to pop. Faction imbalance only effects games with World PvP that matters, the World PvP we have here so far doesn't matter at all. Edited December 16, 2011 by Dreadspectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RycheMykola Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Tell me again why server imbalance matters at all with instanced PvP? World PvP here isn't really an issue, the game doesn't revolve around it. That leaves warzones which don't start until theres an equal number of players in queue for it to begin so that doesn't matter either. If anything, a faction imbalance is a BOON for the underdog because you will be in queue for much less time than the side with more players. What's the issue here..I'm not seeing it? Btw I played Alliance on several Horde dominated servers because I wanted to actually PvP, not sit around in a city staring at a vendor waiting for my queue to pop. Faction imbalance only effects games with World PvP that matters, the World PvP we have here so far doesn't matter at all. Because if you don't like Huttball, chances are thats all your going to be doing for warzone's on Empire side. Faction Imbalance for Warzones means longer queues for the more populated side, and near instant queues for less populated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spomo Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 You people need to learn to qq less. Imbalance of faction means absolutely nothing. I am not sure if you ever heard of Mal'ganis in WoW but that is where I played, on Alliance. We were like 8:1 or something ridiculous cause we had goonsquad and somewhere else. I had a blast. There were always horde to kill, and pve content it meant jack. And then queuing for PVP meant nothing. I had fast queue times because there weren't a ton of people. you need to relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 2:1 isn't game breaking nor is it slowing the warzones that much. Also, as someone stated earlier the full population isn't in yet. I play empire actually, still had decent queue times last night on my server(granted we absolutely dominated Rebels all night.) Putting a faction cap on a server is about the only thing BW could do, but they obviously don't have that set up and I honestly doubt they'd be able to do so between now and launch. Roll with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spomo Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 You are also complaining about PVP as if everyone is at endgame level. Many people aren't leveling up through PVP alone. I am sure there are a ton of people who want to reach max level, when things balance out more. I mean why would i as a jedi sentinel want to PVP when I don't have any slows yes and my stuns don't work in pvp. I only have one trinket as well. Just what i want, to be a melee, with one leap, one trinket. oh look, i get stunned, trinket, oh i leap, oh wait pushed away. Oh now i have no catchup and no trinket. just where i want to be. Why on earth would i want to play not max level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reofjsof Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 2:1 might be gamebreaking in a game like WAR, but it's not in TOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevenanceSLC Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'd rather be outnumbered personally. Means that queues are better and provides a much more challenging world pvp experience. I only rolled Sith because my friends wanted to but having said that we didnt know about the ratio. And now all those that got EGA the first day dont want to lose their 4 day head start. Rather than punishing people for rolling Sith a better alternative would be to give incentive to those rolling Republic. Just in terms of credits earned, experience gained, and crew skills attained. Do it for like a two week period or something to make up for the fact that many people have been playing for 12 hours a day since they gained access. Also the game hasnt come out officially yet so there's plenty of time to fix things. Give them a few weeks to sort things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionRampant Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 2 faction PvP MMOs just don't work, end of story. You can add as many bonuses or penalties as you want, people will play the faction/class they want. TOR PvP (specially OW PvP) is already failing and will only get worse, as it always does in 2 faction PvP games. Players generally don't change side to help balance, they change side to join the faction that wins the most, in this case, the Sith Zerg. Precisely...that's why BW need to act quickly in order to prevent it from happening. It has to be a REAL drawback otherwise it won't stop players joining Sith, and nobody wants that - I mean not even the Sith want that else they'll be playing Huttball all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionRampant Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Faction imbalances cause auction house imbalances too. I played on Laughing Skull alliance in WoW for ages and we were hopelessly outnumbered and outgeared from the very start. In the end people just left. I guarantee you that the Sith will have better auction houses already on those pvp servers. The gap will just widen and it'll be a crap experience for everyone involved. Do not expect to find pvp on servers with that kind of imbalance, it just wont happen - the Republic players will end up leaving for pve servers. Edited December 16, 2011 by LionRampant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forok Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Where are you getting these numbers from of the ratio? Do you have data or are you assuming? Just curious. I know this is just me and I'm not representative of everyone, but I won 11 out of 13 warzones last night against imperial - from all the warzones. The imbalance helps Republic in a few ways, one of them being fast queues. What server is this? My server sucks pretty hard. The Republic is not only outnumbered by a lot, they suck at PvP too. It makes me wonder why I even bother trying. My guild was placed on here. However, when we run premades we win, but if no ones on I can't PvP at all because of my team mates incompetence. Its really annoying. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangKer Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Faction imbalances cause auction house imbalances too. I played on Laughing Skull alliance in WoW for ages and we were hopelessly outnumbered and outgeared from the very start. In the end people just left. I guarantee you that the Sith will have better auction houses already on those pvp servers. The gap will just widen and it'll be a crap experience for everyone involved. Do not expect to find pvp on servers with that kind of imbalance, it just wont happen - the Republic players will end up leaving for pve servers. Still to early to tell, still to early to make any claims, 1 imbalanced server doe not equal an entire game experiance for ToR. Blackrock has a far greater faction inbalance the LS, 18-22k Horde one vs 2-3k Alliance, and oddly enough the alliance on Blackrock are some of the best PvPers because of the constant threat of being mobbed. Get used to imbalances, they have been around since UO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionRampant Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Get used to imbalances, they have been around since UO. And how did they deal with the imbalance? Did they shrug their shoulders and say "get used to imbalance...it's been around since MUD"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togx Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Penalizing players is a very poor idea, players who roll Republic should be rewarded for playing the underdog faction instead, by increased exp gains, valor gains, commendation gains etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangKer Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 And how did they deal with the imbalance? Did they shrug their shoulders and say "get used to imbalance...it's been around since MUD"? They let the players fix it. Player created problems have a player related solution, Players didn't ask or demand for the other factions to be punished because of their popularity, they continued with the game because they liked playing it and found a minor fraction the least of their worries. And UO had some of the most imbalanced servers in MMO history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 And how did they deal with the imbalance? Did they shrug their shoulders and say "get used to imbalance...it's been around since MUD"? What side do you even play on? If you play Rebels you will be happy to be on the underdog side. Gear only goes so far, eventually everyone hits the cap and it won't matter if they geared slightly faster. World PvP DOESN'T MATTER HERE. This isn't DAoC or Warhammer or Planetside etc. Wolrd PvP is what we will make of it. If you don't like your sever balance reroll or transfer if they make it available. BW isn't obligated to fix a community problem, nor are you entitled to demand them to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSGamer Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Where does this train of thought where minorities should be rewarded for being minorities come from? I think we all paid for the game here, why should I be put at a disadvantage because the faction I chose was more popular. Putting said advantages and disadvantages like what the OP is suggesting further imbalances the game on a grander scale by pushing players into a participial direction. Most people will follow the path of least resistance and by adding in artificial imbalances so that more people choose a particular faction is terrible design. Imbalance in a semi balanced game to create population balance is bad. Faction caps would make more sense but prevent friends from playing together potentially. A third faction, while a pipe dream, makes the most sense given the game world and possible implementation. Well to address your first question, America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 It really isn't that bad tbh and I'm loving being republic Agreed. Can be a bit of a pain in Open PvP, but it really doesn't matter much anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavacon Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) OP, do you have any suggestions to rationally quell what you see to be a big problem? If not I suggest you give it a rest for a while and wait a month after release. This isn't isn't the steaming pile of garbage you call WH O.(IMO of course) Let's see where thing's end up. You can always move to a more balanced server it it suits your fancy after all. There will be semi balanced servers and off balance servers. It's the nature of the beast. Choose your poison. balanced isn't always better. There are advantages to both scenarios and disadvantages. Faction balance in a 2 faction game is an inherent problem that can not be solved via punishment or carrots and remain fair and balanced for both sides involved. /facepalm Edited December 16, 2011 by Lavacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavacon Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Well to address your first question, America. I was waiting for someone to say that That doesn't make it a rational train of thought of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSGamer Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Agreed. Can be a bit of a pain in Open PvP, but it really doesn't matter much anywhere else. The people who have problems with it are the people who are on the overpopulated faction. Since we are the ones who have to deal with long PvP queues and maybe 1 real warzone out of every 12 huttball matches. The republic obviously has it made in this department. I tried to switch but me and my friend were driven insane by the dull dialogue and constant spam of "Arrow to the knee" jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackandslice Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Oh QQ freaking QQ OP is being emotional over all this and so are a lot of you other guys Punish Sith players for going Sith, give bonuses for players that go Republic? If there is one thing I've learned from playing MMO's is this... The MORE the developers intervene with player choices the LESS people want to play the game. Additionally, you will NEVER have equal populations. Life isn't fair, get over it... Freaking communists...LAWL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azraelor Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 OP is making WAY too many assumptions.OP hasn't considered that launch day is still 4 days away.OP feels entitled to something - much like a woman thinking she belongs outside the kitchen.OP doesn't do the metrics for BW, nor has any accurate info to prove their assumptions.OP stop posting crap like this, it's not conducive or helpful to anyone.OP is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean that OP is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsbeeman Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Got a great suggestion for you, come to the shadowlands server where the republic is like 3:1 vs sith haha we own this server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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