I agree with many flaws of this game, such as the management, the engine and used WOW style when people are getting tired of it. But end game? No. Especially to casual players

 

We got 6 NM FP for level 50, 8 HM FP and most of them were released from the beginning. They are also well designed. Challenging and not too harsh on casual players. We also got 4 OPS(2 from the beginning), it's good enough for a new game. There are also WZ from the beginning.

 

Sure there should be group finder from the beginning and maybe cross server group later, but the content is good enough

 

I guess people think this way because compare to the class story, these FP/OPS aren't fun?

Edited October 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking

I agree with many flaws of this game, such as the management, the engine and used WOW style when people are getting tired of it. But end game? No. Especially to casual players

 

We got 6 NM FP for level 50, 8 HM FP and most of them were released from the beginning. They are also well designed. Challenging and not too harsh on casual players. We also got 4 OPS(2 from the beginning), it's good enough for a new game. There are also WZ from the beginning.

 

Sure there should be group finder from the beginning and maybe cross server group later, but the content is good enough

 

I guess people think this way because compare to the class story, these FP/OPS aren't fun?

 

 

Only people that are saying this are what I call WoW babies. Those are players that grew up with WoW and try to compare it's content with swtors even though WoW has been out for what 8 years now? Yah that is the reason I really really despise WoW players and that is why I think this game is dead because of former WoW players.

Only people that are saying this are what I call WoW babies. Those are players that grew up with WoW and try to compare it's content with swtors even though WoW has been out for what 8 years now? Yah that is the reason I really really despise WoW players and that is why I think this game is dead because of former WoW players.

 

Yea, let's blame it on WoW instead of SWTOR's own failures

WoW is the reason that 2 million copies of SWTOR sold

WoW is the reason that only 1.7 million of those 2 million led to subscriptions

WoW is the reason there was only 1.3 million a few months later

WoW is the reason that a few months later we were down to "over 500k but under 1 million"

WoW is the reason that the game was announced as going f2p when just a few months earlier Greg made his comment to the contrary.

WoW is the reason so many big names have left the company, mere months after they told us what makes SWTOR unique is that they're keeping the team together to develop more content...

 

Now, quoting the above facts will, of course, get me branded a "hater" despite the fact that I still play the game and still consider it an overall fun game despite its failures (don't worry, I'm used to it and have somewhat embraced it). As for endgame, now that my guild (a very casual guild at that) has cleared Terror, we now have what to do? People in our guild are already going on another haitus. For me, it's back to the alt's class stories. Soon, there won't be even that.

 

Yes, WoW has been out many years, but SWTOR (and other new games) isn't competing with WoW as it was years ago. It's competing with WoW as it is now. Unrealistic expectations due to that? Perhaps, but it is what it is. I quit WoW myself shortly after Cataclysm and have no desire to go back and I certainly didn't want SWTOR to be "WoW in space" (and I laugh at those who call it such). Despite that, you have to admit there are some things they did right to have been as successful as they were, so it would be foolish to say "No! They did that in WoW! We can't do that here!" without at least considering what positives it might bring to the table.

Only people that are saying this are what I call WoW babies. Those are players that grew up with WoW and try to compare it's content with swtors even though WoW has been out for what 8 years now? Yah that is the reason I really really despise WoW players and that is why I think this game is dead because of former WoW players.

 

Well WOW vanilla got 3-4 instances, BRD BRS Scholomance Strathlome. And the 2 Scourge instance were extremely unfriendly to casual players in the beginning. 2 raid instances, both 40 man from the beginning. PVP came out in 1.4 and BG 1.5. Sure the time is different.

 

The xpc got all HM version of the instance, like 10-15, and usually 2-4 Raid in the beginning of the xpc. It's not huge gap.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking

Yea, let's blame it on WoW instead of SWTOR's own failures

WoW is the reason that 2 million copies of SWTOR sold

WoW is the reason that only 1.7 million of those 2 million led to subscriptions

WoW is the reason there was only 1.3 million a few months later

WoW is the reason that a few months later we were down to "over 500k but under 1 million"

WoW is the reason that the game was announced as going f2p when just a few months earlier Greg made his comment to the contrary.

WoW is the reason so many big names have left the company, mere months after they told us what makes SWTOR unique is that they're keeping the team together to develop more content...

 

Now, quoting the above facts will, of course, get me branded a "hater" despite the fact that I still play the game and still consider it an overall fun game despite its failures (don't worry, I'm used to it and have somewhat embraced it). As for endgame, now that my guild (a very casual guild at that) has cleared Terror, we now have what to do? People in our guild are already going on another haitus. For me, it's back to the alt's class stories. Soon, there won't be even that.

 

Yes, WoW has been out many years, but SWTOR (and other new games) isn't competing with WoW as it was years ago. It's competing with WoW as it is now. Unrealistic expectations due to that? Perhaps, but it is what it is. I quit WoW myself shortly after Cataclysm and have no desire to go back and I certainly didn't want SWTOR to be "WoW in space" (and I laugh at those who call it such). Despite that, you have to admit there are some things they did right to have been as successful as they were, so it would be foolish to say "No! They did that in WoW! We can't do that here!" without at least considering what positives it might bring to the table.

 

Well there are a lot of problems of SWTOR, but I don't think lack of end game is a major factor.

Yes, WoW has been out many years, but SWTOR (and other new games) isn't competing with WoW as it was years ago. It's competing with WoW as it is now.

 

Hey, you copied that from an earlier post mine! I got copyrights on that phrase!

 

The price to use that phrase is two cookies and a slice of bacon, please!!!

Well there are a lot of problems of SWTOR, but I don't think lack of end game is a major factor.

 

nope,,a lot of players quit way before reaching that

good and varied low level play is what is needed,,after all, this is where u "catch" the new player

and it also serves to make rerolling alts more enjoyable for the hardcores

u dont learn ccoking by starting with cordon bleu,, first u learn how to boil water

and cooking an egg

Only people that are saying this are what I call WoW babies. Those are players that grew up with WoW and try to compare it's content with swtors even though WoW has been out for what 8 years now? Yah that is the reason I really really despise WoW players and that is why I think this game is dead because of former WoW players.

 

yea,, i came from wow,,it WAS a great game

oddly enough, i thought this would be better

i was wrong

You have to do 1 flashpoint per day to get rewards. 2 normal operations per week for the rewards (then you get locked out). Whats the point in doing EV hm when you have black hole/campaign gear, when you know all the tactics, when you dont need any of the stuff. Let me guess, "for fun"?

 

Some people play to progress, not to pass the time. In terms of progession, there is no end game. But in terms of having stuff to do to pass the time, theres a lot of it.

 

Now with the new ops, what are people going to do who have full campaign gear? Do the TfB twice a week and wait a whole week until the timer resets? What are the chances that those people are going to get a new piece of armor every time they do it? Its going to take weeks and weeks even if youre in a good guild.

 

Ive never even played wow, this game is my first mmo, and i can tell that there isnt enough end game.

Edited October 7, 2012 by DarthWoad

But end game? No. Especially to casual players

 

This is the problem.

 

Endgame is generally not for casual play. Endgame steps it up a level from the normal level cap. It should require lots of investment but should provide variety.

 

If there is such a thing as casual endgame, then yes, SWTOR does it well. If you hardly ever log on or come in once a week then the content you mentioned is enough to keep you busy.

 

But for a regular or hardcore player, for the last 11 months you can only do so many ops a week without being locked out, repeat the same dailies for comms or creds. If you are a pvp only player, you've had no world pvp and had to play the same 4 wz's for 11 months. Would you be excited about playing the same four maps in Call of Duty for a year? Probably not. So it's all relative to how much time you are investing in the game.

Content Locusts.

You have to do 1 flashpoint per day to get rewards. 2 normal operations per week for the rewards (then you get locked out). Whats the point in doing EV hm when you have black hole/campaign gear, when you know all the tactics, when you dont need any of the stuff. Let me guess, "for fun"?

 

And there is nothing to progress to, which is a huge issue. You play an OP to get gear from that OP to play that OP again in Nightmare. But why? There's no better gear or unique drops in Nightmare. There should be some type of super world boss that can only be beaten by groups of 16 in full Dread Guard. Something that sends the players back to the operations over and over because they are gearing to be able to beat something else, not to get the gear just to repeat the same OP.

 

Nightmare Pilgrim sort of offered this when most were just gearing for Rakata.

I agree with many flaws of this game, such as the management, the engine and used WOW style when people are getting tired of it. But end game? No. Especially to casual players

 

We got 6 NM FP for level 50, 8 HM FP and most of them were released from the beginning. They are also well designed. Challenging and not too harsh on casual players. We also got 4 OPS(2 from the beginning), it's good enough for a new game. There are also WZ from the beginning.

 

Sure there should be group finder from the beginning and maybe cross server group later, but the content is good enough

 

I guess people think this way because compare to the class story, these FP/OPS aren't fun?

On the PvE side you might be right (don't play much PvE stuff), but as a PvP player I think there is a lack of elder game content for me. Okay a new warzone is coming, but I would like to see more open world PvP (too bad that they haven't fixed Ilum) or that ranked warzones would actually pop from time to time (make it cross server and/or let people do ranked warzones single queued.)

You have to do 1 flashpoint per day to get rewards. 2 normal operations per week for the rewards (then you get locked out). Whats the point in doing EV hm when you have black hole/campaign gear, when you know all the tactics, when you dont need any of the stuff. Let me guess, "for fun"?

 

When you reach 50, all the gears from those FP are useful.

Well the same thing happened to all the instances, once you get better gear, that's why the company needs to update with new FP/OPS. We got TFB right?

 

 

Some people play to progress, not to pass the time. In terms of progession, there is no end game. But in terms of having stuff to do to pass the time, theres a lot of it.

Now with the new ops, what are people going to do who have full campaign gear? Do the TfB twice a week and wait a whole week until the timer resets? What are the chances that those people are going to get a new piece of armor every time they do it? Its going to take weeks and weeks even if youre in a good guild.

 

What kind of play do you want? All MMO are pretty much the same in end game when you already got the 2nd best sets, if you want to improve, all you can do is the instance that drops the best sets.

 

Ive never even played wow, this game is my first mmo, and i can tell that there isnt enough end game.

 

Well I will say it's the bottleneck of the current MMO, even WOW could not break it.

Hey, you copied that from an earlier post mine! I got copyrights on that phrase!

 

The price to use that phrase is two cookies and a slice of bacon, please!!!

 

Even the current WOW didn't have 10+level 90 heroic or 5+ level 90 10/25 men instance.

 

So it's not a huge gap besides the pet battle and cross server group.

 

Let's say how many FP/OPS do you think is enough for SWTOR?

Edited October 7, 2012 by Slowpokeking

And there is nothing to progress to, which is a huge issue. You play an OP to get gear from that OP to play that OP again in Nightmare. But why? There's no better gear or unique drops in Nightmare. There should be some type of super world boss that can only be beaten by groups of 16 in full Dread Guard. Something that sends the players back to the operations over and over because they are gearing to be able to beat something else, not to get the gear just to repeat the same OP.

 

Nightmare Pilgrim sort of offered this when most were just gearing for Rakata.

 

Then what happens when you beat the boss and got all his gear?

nope,,a lot of players quit way before reaching that

good and varied low level play is what is needed,,after all, this is where u "catch" the new player

and it also serves to make rerolling alts more enjoyable for the hardcores

u dont learn ccoking by starting with cordon bleu,, first u learn how to boil water

and cooking an egg

 

I think the leveling is very fun for me, I hate leveling as hell and I even dropped GW2 because of that. But I level 4 Imperial classes to 50 for the story.

 

However I can see some problem

 

1. No choice to pick planets to level up, you must follow the road.

2. WOW alike combat might bored people before they could get into the story.

3. It's hard to find low level FP groups.

Well WOW vanilla got 3-4 instances, BRD BRS Scholomance Strathlome. And the 2 Scourge instance were extremely unfriendly to casual players in the beginning. 2 raid instances, both 40 man from the beginning. PVP came out in 1.4 and BG 1.5. Sure the time is different.

 

The xpc got all HM version of the instance, like 10-15, and usually 2-4 Raid in the beginning of the xpc. It's not huge gap.

 

WOW didn't have raids day 1.

I find more than enough end game content in this game to keep me going. I currently have 1 toon in campaign gear working on tfb hm, that one is also gearing up still in pvp. 1 in rakata that is still gearing up campaign, has only done terror sm. Hasnt done any pvp. A fresh 50 waiting to get into sm kp and ev still. And two alts around lvl 20. Some of these guys are doing pve dailies still, others pvp dailies. I never get enough game time in to do everything. I don't see a problem with end game at all.

Its not just the dungeons (FPs Ops etc) that matter. What if you dont raid? If you NEVER do a dungeon in either game WoW will keep you busier longer at cap level.....bottom line. This game falls flat on its face for people who DONT raid/dungeon as soon as we hit 50.

M

On the other end of the spectrum they could have made the endgame drops all super rare with long lockouts on all the FP instances, but then people would just complain that it was too hard. Edited October 8, 2012 by MorgonKara

Its not just the dungeons (FPs Ops etc) that matter. What if you dont raid? If you NEVER do a dungeon in either game WoW will keep you busier longer at cap level.....bottom line. This game falls flat on its face for people who DONT raid/dungeon as soon as we hit 50.

M

 

That's for sure. If you are a soloer the story ends at 50 and there are only the dailies to do. We haven't gotten any new content yet that wasn't for raiders or PvP. well...that last event was pretty good, but no new major story content or class missions. the dailies get old pretty fast too. i got to the point where i was soloing the daily heroic 4s just to challenge myself, but then they nerfd them to heroic 2s

Edited October 8, 2012 by MorgonKara

I agree with many flaws of this game, such as the management, the engine and used WOW style when people are getting tired of it. But end game? No. Especially to casual players

 

We got 6 NM FP for level 50, 8 HM FP and most of them were released from the beginning. They are also well designed. Challenging and not too harsh on casual players. We also got 4 OPS(2 from the beginning), it's good enough for a new game. There are also WZ from the beginning.

 

Sure there should be group finder from the beginning and maybe cross server group later, but the content is good enough

 

I guess people think this way because compare to the class story, these FP/OPS aren't fun?

 

Well, I can only speak for me, but you're pointing out precisely why I feel there is not enough endgame: "6 NM FP", "8 HM FP", "4 OPS". Aside from uninspired dailies, only content focused on grouping and raiding. Which is "what WoW offers" to a T. Only less. Because even WoW offers more to 'soloers'.

 

And yes, while I had fun in the game with the class story and the occasional dungeon, this end game design isn't what I care for. It doesn't keep me interested in the game. So I play a class story, and cancel my subscription until I have gotten enough distance that I can play another class story through the game (since I can't even chose which planet to level on when).

I really like the class stories. I wish there was more focus on immersion, exploration (no, playing Mario isn't exploration) and story telling instead of "the usual WoW crap".

Edited October 8, 2012 by Muesliac

Well, I can only speak for me, but you're pointing out precisely why I feel there is not enough endgame: "6 NM FP", "8 HM FP", "4 OPS". Aside from uninspired dailies, only content focused on grouping and raiding. Which is "what WoW offers" to a T. Only less. Because even WoW offers more to 'soloers'.

 

And yes, while I had fun in the game with the class story and the occasional dungeon, this end game design isn't what I care for. It doesn't keep me interested in the game. So I play a class story, and cancel my subscription until I have gotten enough distance that I can play another class story through the game (since I can't even chose which planet to level on when).

I really like the class stories. I wish there was more focus on immersion, exploration (no, playing Mario isn't exploration) and story telling instead of "the usual WoW crap".

 

Well group up and do something is the major factor of the endgame of MMO, especially since WOW or EQ.

Sure I love the story more than anything but you cannot ask them to create new story for 8 classes in a few months right? There are also some events and dailies. Maybe they should add pet battle?

 

If they really can keep the story up by patches it would be super amazing but it's just not realistic.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Slowpokeking

As for the story, I think just like the events, they could add some class story related dailies every patch, or some "hardmode" class quest encounter. Or some method to change the choices that you regret to make. Edited October 8, 2012 by Slowpokeking