Hi there everyone, I am really questioning the 2.0 talent tree for gunnery Commando i mean, unless we are supposed to have a new role in raids, which by the looks of our talent tree is a dps offtank?

COME ON BW, before 2.0 we already had to spend 7 talent points on mitigation talents, and now post 2.0 we have to spend 9!!! short math for you other ppl (25%) of our talent points go into mitigation talents and not actual dps, which is more than any other class/specc i know off (apart from tanks).

So please, can someone give me a valid explanation for this, and does that mean Gunnery is completely ****ed compared to Assault specc for dps in 2.0?

Because PvP.

Yea, but Assault specc is supposed to be the PvP specc due to fewer attacks with a cast time. gunnery seems like the more stationary dps

Yea, but Assault specc is supposed to be the PvP specc due to fewer attacks with a cast time. gunnery seems like the more stationary dps

Neither tree has been particularly great for PvP, but you can be equally effective with either. The only people saying assault is the defacto PvP tree are those who couldn't get gunnery to work for them (and had never seen an effective gunnery commando).

They both have their strengths and weaknesses in warzones, and both needed improvements.

Neither tree has been particularly great for PvP, but you can be equally effective with either. The only people saying assault is the defacto PvP tree are those who couldn't get gunnery to work for them (and had never seen an effective gunnery commando).

 

They both have their strengths and weaknesses in warzones, and both needed improvements.

That is very true, both are viable depending on what type you prefer, however mobility is key in pvp, and more casts = less mobility

That is very true, both are viable depending on what type you prefer, however mobility is key in pvp, and more casts = less mobility

The ability to lay damage on your opponent is key in PvP. You can run around spamming hammer shot all day and be totally 'mobile', but hardly effective. There *is* a mobility tradeoff between assault and gunnery, but there is also a burst tradeoff in the other direction (albeit backloaded).

Well a few things.

A) You say running around spamming hammer shot, go check the amount of instant casts in AS and compare it to gunnery, then you will see assault specc is more mobile, + plasma cell will get a slow.

B) Im trying to point out that despite BW wanting to make all speccs viable for pvp and pve, why does it seem that gunnery is built mainly for pvp? as i said earlier 25% of the talent points go into mitigation/utility talents (and no other class has to spend that many points on it). Honeslty I wish they would make 1 specc for pve dps and one for pvp dps.

C) Are the new talents on pts final? if so i might aswell go assault specc for dps.

D) My main point in this post is the PVE aspect of gunnery commando, so continously blabbering about pvp wont provide me with a answer

Are you high?

Assault has a crock of **** when it comes to PVE abilities or even useful abilities.

Gunnery has everything it needs for PVE. Everything.

All the damage reduction, lower shield CD, heal boost, more damage reduction, more damage reduction is good because healers need to heal you a lot less.

Now give me one talent in the Assault tree that you call useful for a PVE raider.

They removed the shield CD reduction, removed the 15% heal CD reduction (and screwed the heal too) + the reserve powercell reduction (but since they screwed crit it would take longer now anyway).

Now there's nothing at all in Assault that benefits PVE worth a dam.

Ok....

Well a few things.

A) You say running around spamming hammer shot, go check the amount of instant casts in AS and compare it to gunnery, then you will see assault specc is more mobile, + plasma cell will get a slow.

It's almost as though you didn't read my post where I stated that Assault was more mobile than Gunnery. I'm sure that isn't the case though right? My point about hammer shot was that mobility is NOT the be all and end all.

B) Im trying to point out that despite BW wanting to make all speccs viable for pvp and pve, why does it seem that gunnery is built mainly for pvp? as i said earlier 25% of the talent points go into mitigation/utility talents (and no other class has to spend that many points on it). Honeslty I wish they would make 1 specc for pve dps and one for pvp dps.

C) Are the new talents on pts final? if so i might aswell go assault specc for dps.

As for your last point, the changes were made primarily because of PvP, you can't discuss them without mentioning it. YOU are the one who said Assault is the PvP spec.

I don't see gunnery becoming worse for PvE (though we'll see if other classes have significantly improved making gunnery worse comparatively).

So Gyro ONE useful pve talent in assault specc? i could close my eyes and still find a usefull pve talent in assault specc. point me to one that isnt effective, and dont point out one you woudnt build for a dps specc.(remember i was pointing out that we had to spend a ****load of talents in utility/mitigation) not actual dps talents, that was my point).

and Jheg, the ability to pound down ppl with dmg in pvp, yea i got that post regardingdps/mobility tradeoff, but when you got a shadow/sent/jugger/scoundrel on your ***, standing still casting is gonna do how much? Thats kinda why i made a snappy response.

As for you final point about gunnery becomming worse compared to other classes, that might have something to do with us spending 25% talent points on mitigation.

and Jheg, the ability to pound down ppl with dmg in pvp, yea i got that post regardingdps/mobility tradeoff, but when you got a shadow/sent/jugger/scoundrel on your ***, standing still casting is gonna do how much? Thats kinda why i made a snappy response.

Both specs suffer from this. I've made gunnery work for me in PvP just as well as any assault spec. Each has to output a certain amount of damage to kill the target, and in a group, each has different ways to do this successfully. Both have problems in high end play currently - check out my vids if you want to see what gunnery can do (see my sig).

As for you final point about gunnery becomming worse compared to other classes, that might have something to do with us spending 25% talent points on mitigation.

So Gyro ONE useful pve talent in assault specc? i could close my eyes and still find a usefull pve talent in assault specc. point me to one that isnt effective, and dont point out one you woudnt build for a dps specc.(remember i was pointing out that we had to spend a ****load of talents in utility/mitigation) not actual dps talents, that was my point).

Go on then.

I'll let you have reduced CD on Recharge Cells and Reserve Powercell.

Now I'll draw you a picture of the difference between a PVE assault and PVE gunnery

http://s11.postimage.org/8bb7yda1f/assault.png

http://s14.postimage.org/6wq1u8c41/gunnery.png

Now you were about to continue with how unfair the Gunnery tree is so I'll let you say something.

Neither tree has been particularly great for PvP, but you can be equally effective with either. The only people saying assault is the defacto PvP tree are those who couldn't get gunnery to work for them (and had never seen an effective gunnery commando).

 

They both have their strengths and weaknesses in warzones, and both needed improvements.

There isn't an effective gunnery commando, any elite commando dps can easily be replaced for the better, by an average vanguard. And an assault commando is a poor mans assault vanguard. I call them commandos with buyers remorse, or people who are smart enough to know they ****ed up but dumb enough to stick around on the class wasting their time.

There isn't an effective gunnery commando, any elite commando dps can easily be replaced for the better, by an average vanguard. And an assault commando is a poor mans assault vanguard. I call them commandos with buyers remorse, or people who are smart enough to know they ****ed up but dumb enough to stick around on the class wasting their time.

If you've read many of my previous posts, you'll know I feel pretty much the same way about commandos/mercs in general. My point is not that they are better than other classes, but that neither DPS spec is the defacto 'PvP' spec. Nothing in 2.0 appears to be aimed at changing that (which is a good thing).

Whether we'll be improved in PvP remains to be seen.