I've decided i'm giving it to the 1.1 patch to see if artifice is worth keeping and just going Biochem like every other PVPer if nothing is changed.

 

I agree. In beta Artifice was able to make sabers, vibro blades and swords and electrostaves, etc. as well as the crystals, hilts, Enhancements and MODs to fill them. Now, in live, you can not make any sabers until 400 max skill. Also, they moved all the "jedi" melee weapons to the Armstech skill. Isn't Artifice still listed as "the skill used to make lightsabers and the crystals to power them"? Well, at level 9 you create your first lightsaber, then you have to study the rest of your life (400 skill) to remember how to make a single one.

 

Although the MODs are still listed on the crew trainer starting at 240 skill, when you click to buy/learn it, the guy offering it claims you have the wrong crew skills to learn it. It's bad enough taking a skill to make lightsabers that doesn't actually make lightsabers any more, or having the weapons your jedi starts with automatically now crafted by a guy making blasters and rifles, to have the trainer mock you with a MOD you want and refuses to teach you is just beyond insulting and frustrating.

49 of the 50 levels are not level 50. There are plenty of items needed before anyone gets to level 50. Some of the stuff needed can be gotten thru questing, some thru PVP, some others from crafting, and there are even a few nice orange items available from vendors.

 

Deal with what is currently available. The game has been out less than one month and so many people are crying on their keyboard it is rediculous. If you don't like what is available from crafting become a profiteer and get three gathering skills.

 

And learn how to work the GTN. It is always a cash cow as long as you know how to use it.

The problem with all crafting that generates items, or the modifications and that includes all catagories, is that its easier right now to obtain it through the quest system then buy it from a player.

 

Right now i have both cybertech and armstech at 400, and neither is really all that useful, except to craft for a guildies alt or friend who wants something. Cybertech has two areas where its useful from an economic standpoint.

 

When you have players who are able to obtain either blue or purple BOE items at every level through commendations or other avenues its pretty pointless to have a craft on a player from an economic standpoint.

 

Whats worse is that with a high level player to feed your alts, you really never have to bother with crafting at all, since daily missions will give your alts all the mods they need to level from 1-50 since its easier to generate commendations.

 

For those who want to craft for the enjoyment its a different story, for those who enjoy crafting and playing the auction house economy, its rather pointless and in most cases will result in negative income, not positive, even with the plethora of credits that floats around this game.

I agree. Crafting professions are useless in making money and from what I've heard, not relevant end game.

 

It seems like professions are there just to throw something to the players to burn time and energy, while dreaming for a better thing to come.

 

My advice is, do it just to equip your characters while leveling, setting your expectations real low. Don't waste money by trying to get more than that. Crafting is just an afterthought in this game.

 

Agreed - the crafitng profs here, except bio, are all crap. I've just stuck to gathering and make money that way. It's really depressing. With every stupid step that BW does, just makes me lose more and more interest in this game which is a real pity as I like a lot of what this game has to offer.

Actually this is a whine, how do you know all this isn't a simple mistake, something hugely over looked?

 

I am betting it was a huge mistake that was over-looked. They're not going to neglect an important part of the game which i can tell they put a good deal of effort into. Part of the companion system was mainly comprised from crafting.

 

Well, when ALL the crafting professions are basically "broken" I really don't think this is an oversight more so than poor implementing of game mechanics. It's not that hard to do really. If WoW and Rift can do it, why then can't the devs here as well. Weren't they the ones boasting and patting each other on the backs saying how "Great" this was going to be - great for the toilet perhaps but when most of the ppl are complaining, well, there MUST be something amiss - no?

Those rare color should be a bonus for the artifice profession, which are bop. BW can add a BoE similar color rare crystals that are difficult to produce too. Thus, the artifice get the rare colors as a bonus for leveling artifice to max and can sell the boe rare version on the ah for profit if they can produce them. Edited January 6, 2012 by Knockerz

I upgrade my hilts all the time (from GTN if I find a bargain)

I upgrade my hilts all the time (from GTN if I find a bargain)

 

The problem is providing bargains. I dump thousands of creds into getting my purple recipes. And then to make a purple I still need to dump more thousands of creds and hope I get the rare gem I need. Character is continually broke or close to it and I can't sell the item for what it cost me to make it.

 

Color crystals - I never find enough color crystal nodes to be able to RE them enough to get higher level ones and I already waste too much money running treasure hunting missions to run multiple missions for color gems.

 

And I have to agree with a previous poster, seems like crafting is just an after thought. Crafters have this incredible credit drain that we can't stop up cause our product is not in demand enough so we can't charge the prices we need to. Add to that we have to RE so much we don't have much to actually sell.

I have to disagree that the crafting professions are worthless. It's an individual preference, really, and my preference it to play on a PVE-RP server. I have no trouble making upgrades with artifice, nor with the commendation purchases either. What I can't buy with commendations - as I'm not one to jump into every heroic level instance to get the 'fat lewt' - I supplement with the RE'd gained schematic upgrades.

 

The game is about immersion in a setting and story, not how many credits you can amass, having the top grade stuff all the time, etc. This is not a game to 'be won', but one to be enjoyed. If someone's not enjoying themselves, my question would be: Why are they investing time/money/effort into something they enjoy less than 100%? To do that would seem senseless and masochistic to me.

 

Certain schematics are out there that allow things to be crafted that ARE NOT dropped or available off any vendor (save the GTN), i.e., the Trooper/Knight's plasti-steel chest and leg pieces, or the Consular's Force Initiate Robe.

 

These are just a few things I know of, and there may be more. So, having said that, I cannot see where the crafting portion of the game is useless. Personally, I'm enjoying all aspects of the game 100%, as I try to avoid being senseless and masochistic.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Realtrek

Crafters have this incredible credit drain that we can't stop up cause our product is not in demand enough so we can't charge the prices we need to. Add to that we have to RE so much we don't have much to actually sell.

 

This sums up the issue quite nicely.

 

While I like the idea of adding BoP craftables (Someone suggested Color Crystals), this doesn't actually solve the issue of having to dump hundreds of thousands of credits into the profession to Max it out.. with little chance of recouping anytime this year.

 

Of course, every Server Market will be different and some will be able to profit due to... we'll call them "uninformed buyers," but the exception should not be the rule. The profession is severely lacking in a genuine ability to make money. It doesn't need to be incredibly profitable.. just reasonably profitable.

 

Also.. having to run Hardmode FP's and Ops to competitively roll for a Material that makes items of Lower Quality to the actual Loot that drops duringthose Hardmode FP's and Ops, is just plain Silly. If you have to go through all that to craft the things, the results should be Epics that are of just a bit lower quality than Tier 1 Items (or perhaps just itemized slightly different).

The game is about immersion in a setting and story, not how many credits you can amass, having the top grade stuff all the time, etc. This is not a game to 'be won', but one to be enjoyed. If someone's not enjoying themselves, my question would be: Why are they investing time/money/effort into something they enjoy less than 100%? To do that would seem senseless and masochistic to me.

 

Sorry but there's no one finite definition of what the game is about. The nature of an MMO is to provide a wide variety of activities for players to take part in that cross support each other. Having a viable Economy is part of this and a key part of creating a viable Economy is a Crafting Market.

 

Also, just an fyi, telling other people that their idea of fun is wrong will never be correct nor will it go over well with the people you're addressing.

Crafting in almost every MMO ever has always been useless by design. The normal leveling recipes are setup to let your barely get by, maybe break even if you are lucky, until you can max out your skill, then get rare dropped recipes from raids and such where you will actually make money.

 

I agree, it sucks and it's kind of misleading, but it has always been this way. Don't waste your time with crafting if you think it is going to be profitable. Trade skills in MMO's are only useful for:

 

1. Equipping alts

2. Vanity Items (self only items)

3. Making money on rare dropped recipes that you get from raids and similar encounters.

 

 

If you are still decided upon trying to be profitable with MMO trade skills, choose skills that make consumables. They are the only trade skill that is ever profitable on their own (Slicing in this game also makes consumables BTW). I am not sure how profitable even consumable oriented skills are when you consider the cost and time of training them.

 

 

To a certain extent I understand why MMO's do this. If they made crafting very profitable or extremely useful, they would essentially make it mandatory, and they know that only a small percentage of players want to craft seriously.

 

Eve Online was the only true exception to this.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Bluejayoo

Crafting in almost every MMO ever has always been useless by design. The normal leveling recipes are setup to let your barely get by, maybe break even if you are lucky, until you can max out your skill, then get rare dropped recipes from raids and such where you will actually make money.

 

The Bold is what this game's crafting system is missing. The max level crafting doesn't offer anything that's useful for.. well pretty much anyone. Better items can be gained through Warzone Grinding and Flashpoints.

 

I don't think that would inherently be a problem except for the fact that the highest level craftables require that you run Hardmode Flashpoints and Ops multiple times to get the mats for the items.. and at that point you'll get more useful items from the drops. The Return on Investment is just too low.

 

Edit: I am aware that the World Bosses drop schematics for the Rare Color Crystals but at this point the Rarity of the Schematics and the Raw Crystals make them way too hard to get to ever be profitable.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Jest

Sorry but there's no one finite definition of what the game is about. The nature of an MMO is to provide a wide variety of activities for players to take part in that cross support each other. Having a viable Economy is part of this and a key part of creating a viable Economy is a Crafting Market.

 

I agree. However, what one person might consider a “viable economic crafting market” can depend on what items are being compared between what can be crafted, and what can be attained through drops. Personally, I enjoy the challenge of finding materials for crafting items far more than the break-neck speed heroic instances and flashpoints. But, that’s my preference.

 

Also, just an fyi, telling other people that their idea of fun is wrong will never be correct nor will it go over well with the people you're addressing.

 

While I agree with the statement, I do have difficulty with accepting the concept of something not being 100% enjoyable being classified as “fun”. Given some posts I’ve seen that led to my original post, the perceived tones suggest that some folks find it fun to be aggravated, or at least, less than pleased with some – or more – aspects of the game.

 

If something – MMO’s included – are causing me undo consternation, then that’s not “fun” and I’ll do something else.

The problem is providing bargains. I dump thousands of creds into getting my purple recipes. And then to make a purple I still need to dump more thousands of creds and hope I get the rare gem I need. Character is continually broke or close to it and I can't sell the item for what it cost me to make it.

 

Certainly not if you consider your entire investment in learning the schematic as part of the "cost" to make it. Those costs have to be recouped a little at a time, over multiple sales. If someone gets a degree in accounting, they don't charge every client an amount that allows them to recoup the cost of their whole education.

 

If you are "dumping thosands of creds" into trying to get a rare gem, you should be recouping those costs by (a) selling items that are made from the other gems you are getting, such as making and selling prototype items while you are trying for artifact gems or (b) selling off all the prototype mats until you get the rare one you need. At the very least, those mats will sell for the cost of the missions used to get them, and very often they turn a significant profit over those.

Edited January 6, 2012 by TrevNYC

Here's another thing about crafting and end game.

 

Take Synthweaving for example. It makes so many orange gear but I don't want to buy any of it. Most of it looks like crap and by the time I hit 50 I need to pick up Operation and PVP gear, all of which has set bonuses.

 

That means I'm going have to throw away all of my orange gear anyways. Even if somebody ever finds a way to transfer mods or make armouring the level that Operation and PVP gear has it still won't have the beneficial set bonuses.

 

 

I guess I'll just have to save my credits and accept that I'll walk around looking like a terrible space samurai.

 

 

Thank you so much for this "deep" appearance customization and crafting avenues at end game, BioWare.

I'm lvl 39, have 500k in the bank and have actually enjoyed the profits i am receiving from crafting. The purple gems are hard to come across, but when you can make a mid level purple (just about anything) it generally sells quickly on the gtn. I'm on a PvP server if that matters...I've even found that people seriously undercut themselves when posting purple crafted items. I've bought out lower priced items that I can craft just to repost and sell at a profit. Make sure the stats for the items you are selling are in demand on your server...

Certainly not if you consider your entire investment in learning the schematic as part of the "cost" to make it. Those costs have to be recouped a little at a time, over multiple sales. If someone gets a degree in accounting, they don't charge every client an amount that allows them to recoup the cost of their whole education.

 

If you are "dumping thosands of creds" into trying to get a rare gem, you should be recouping those costs by (a) selling items that are made from the other gems you are getting, such as making and selling prototype items while you are trying for artifact gems or (b) selling off all the prototype mats until you get the rare one you need. At the very least, those mats will sell for the cost of the missions used to get them, and very often they turn a significant profit over those.

 

I take it your not an artificer?

 

And you have to take into account what it took you to get that schematic. Thats basic business 101.

 

You can't recoup the cost by selling the items that uses the other gems, they aren't good enough to compete with the other drops/rewards available. No one wants them. And no they don't recoup the cost just selling the mats because everyone is getting that garbage in excess so who would need it?

 

Missions are way overpriced, provide putrid results and then your products are overshadowed by other rewards.

I'm lvl 39, have 500k in the bank and have actually enjoyed the profits i am receiving from crafting. The purple gems are hard to come across, but when you can make a mid level purple (just about anything) it generally sells quickly on the gtn. I'm on a PvP server if that matters...I've even found that people seriously undercut themselves when posting purple crafted items. I've bought out lower priced items that I can craft just to repost and sell at a profit. Make sure the stats for the items you are selling are in demand on your server...

 

I'm 34th have about 20K in the bank and a handful of puple recipes. Stuff does not sell on my server for what it costs to make it. Last puple hilt I made took me 12 missions to get the pearls I needed. No one is going to pay what it cost me to make it, let alone a make a profit.

Noone ever asks me to make them something, even I won't bother making something like a better color crystal for my alts, or a hilt, ill still use the commendation vendor because even to me it isn't worth the time to do it.

 

Here's a example what i'd need to do to give my alt a hilt. 1. Switch to the artifice, 2. Run missions for the rare mats, 3. Spend time crafting the Hilt. 4. Send the hilt over. In that time I know for a fact I could just farm the commendations, and get it off the vendor, given the random nature of rare mats it would probably be faster and cheaper.

 

As for commendations, I rarely ever have to few off them to keep my gear up to date, unless your using a stealth class and avoiding tons of combat or your really bad at questing and drop quests, bonuses and heroics left right and center, you ALWAYS have more commendations then you need to stay up to date. My BH alt today finished Alderaan with 39 commendations, almost 15 more then I needed to bring every modable item up to date.

 

I guess we just have different play experiences. Ever since level 30ish, I have run out of commendations every time and had to augment myself. Also, I am constantly running missions so I don't need to take the time to run missions to gear up; I usually have the mats on hand. Maybe I just play in more populated area where things are just killed constantly and you get more commendations than I do but I am glad I picked both Cyber tech and Artificing to fill my orange gear.

 

6 pieces of orange gear, need armor, mod, and enhancement for each, and a gem and hilt for the saber. That is a LOT of commendations and I would rather take the time to switch over and queue up some crafting than grind out commendations. Also, since I am a Sage, I don't even have to switch for my gem, hilt, and enhancements.

I take it your not an artificer?

 

Your assumption is incorrect.

 

And you have to take into account what it took you to get that schematic. Thats basic business 101.

 

Right. But what I said is that you can't expect to get all of it back at once. If it costs Ford $10 million to make a factory they don't recoup the costs by trying to sell a car for $10 million, or even the next 10 cars they make for $1 million each.

 

You can't recoup the cost by selling the items that uses the other gems, they aren't good enough to compete with the other drops/rewards available. No one wants them.

 

My experience differs, which suggests that your prices are too high or you aren't patient enough with your postings or you aren't reaching the correct market (someone said in another thread that the GTN terminals aren't linked. I have no idea whether that's true but if it is then it's possible that your postings are going up on terminals that aren't used by your intended market.)

 

People like to refer to the fact that the commendation vendors gut the market for crafted goods. This is incorrect. Commendation items aren't "free." They just use a different currency (which happens to have a capped rate of acquisition), which means crafters have to get a sense of the "value" of a commendation before pricing their items. To use a very simplified example:

 

Suppose someone can make 1000 credits/hour. That same person can earn 1 commendation/hour, but is capped at 10 commendations/day (all of these numbers are made up for simplicity).

 

Now suppose that a vendor item costs 20 commendations. That would take 2 days and 20 hours to get. That is equivalent to 20,000 credits. If you post the same item that the vendor sells for less than 20,000 credits, then it becomes more efficient to buy it from you instead of the vendor. This happens even when the vendors have the "best" items, because there is a market for goods that are slightly less effective. People buy these for companions, and so that they have suitable gear to use while they are grinding out commendations. It's not like you ding 50 and instantly have enough commendations to gear out every possible gear slot.

 

And no they don't recoup the cost just selling the mats because everyone is getting that garbage in excess so who would need it?

 

The same people who are doing what you did to learn better schematics. Again, you have to pick the right price. At worst, you can sell (blue) mission mats for the cost of the mission it took to get them. If crafters are "dumping" credits into missions for a *chance* to get certain mats, then they happily would pay the same price to be guaranteed to get what they want. More often, they will pay slightly more. You can't have it both ways by suggesting that people are willing to throw money at missions for blue mats to make things to RE for purple schematics but they aren't willing to throw money at the GTN to do the same thing faster and more efficiently.

 

I'll give an actual example. The other day I was making a low level epic hilt for a friend. No one was selling purple lowbie gemstones so I did some missions to see what I could get. I ended up with a bunch of fire nodes in the process. I can't remember exactly, but offhand I'd say the missions cost ~195 to run and returned an average of 2 gemstones. That means each fire node "cost" me < 100 credits to get. People were selling nodes for ~500 on the GTN, and possibly wondering why they weren't selling (or maybe they were selling -- that would make my point even stronger). I listed my nodes for 150 credits each and they all sold.

 

I didn't make a ton of money, but I wasn't trying to. The main points are that (1) I didn't lose any money at all, and (2) these mats sold notwithstanding that they make items that are fairly quickly outleveled/surpassed by things on commendation vendors.

Edited January 6, 2012 by TrevNYC

 

The game is about immersion in a setting and story, not how many credits you can amass, having the top grade stuff all the time, etc. This is not a game to 'be won', but one to be enjoyed. If someone's not enjoying themselves, my question would be: Why are they investing time/money/effort into something they enjoy less than 100%? To do that would seem senseless and masochistic to me.

 

Some people like to become the best they can be at something they invest so much time in. Which sometimes results in pain and suffering. But that's a champion for ya, or masochist if you will.

Even at my low level of 17 I'm managing to sell a bunch of crystals and enhancements. I just undercut the whole market and everything sells. I may not be profiting due to the high cost of gathering missions, but I am mitigating the cost of leveling artifice.

 

I'm just hoping they balance it out and improve the schematics by the time I reach 50 and max out the craft.

My hilts and mods sell reguraly with no problem. It is a money sink however, and commendation rewards are usually on par. I'm sticking with it incase they decide to introduce some nice rare recipes later on. I find that yellow crystals sell quicker and more often than anything else

Hey maybe, just maybe, you all should take a step back and chill. This game has been released for 2 months now. I'm sure you're all coming from WoW or some other MMO and have certain expectations and that's fine. Fact is this is a different game, and I assume you bought it because you wanted a slightly different experience not the same recycled garbage slapped with a star wars logo. Secondly, this is a new game. New. I'm sure if you remember back 7 or 8 years to when certain other MMOs first came along they weren't perfect right from the get go. I'm sure that 8 years of updates, feedback, and expansions didn't change and influence the content in other MMOs. Just because you left a game that had tons of depth and a long established economy doesn't mean that it's realistic to expect the same out of a newly released game.

 

I'm a level 400 artifice and I agree that artifice and possibly all crew skills seem somewhat useless right now. I check the GTM every day and I don't think I've ever seen an artifice schematic on it. That doesn't mean I'm gonna have a giant ***** fest about it two months into the game. But hey, that's just me.