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Guardian/Juggernaut Vigilance/Vengeance Guide (3.0+) by Vesev and AndrewPast

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Guardian/Juggernaut Vigilance/Vengeance Guide (3.0+) by Vesev and AndrewPast

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
05.30.2015 , 01:37 PM | #521
Its such a limited thing though, the total community who was even able to kill him pre-nerf is tiny, and if you're not one to hop around to different groups/servers etc, you're kind of limited by the group you run with as much as the class itself.

Back in the day, for EC nightmare, I was in the server first group on Ebon Hawk for the Warstalker title with a Jugg DPS, and this was when Vengeance was in a very bad place at the time (still had huge RNG issues with Ravage reset). Didn't get carried either, was second on the parse in a group with 2 PT's and a Mara rounding out the DPS. Now, I didn't keep track of world rankings or anything at the time so I don't know if we did it quickly or anything, but the point is it was definitely doable and my progress back then had much much more to do with the group I was running with than my classes capabilities. I feel like I'd still be near the top of progression if we had the same people in our group that we did back then, but people quit etc, and my guild is a bit smaller/tight knit and doesn't actively recruit or poach so we've never really replenished our talent to what it was back then.

My point being, I think the group you run with has a far greater impact than your class's capabilities, and the total amount of people even able to do this content right now is so small that its hard to say whether its the class limiting you or the people you are with.

This is not me saying don't buff Vig/Veng, I love buffs >_>, just that I don't know that Jugg Revanchists is an extremely important thing to look at. Although it is still an interesting question.
Kandel - Juggernaut Lef - Guardian
Nyeetra - Assassin Milarra - Sage
Lendros - Mercenary Jakor - Vanguard
Iseline - Operative Lysandere - Gunslinger

Joran-Koon's Avatar


Joran-Koon
05.31.2015 , 12:27 AM | #522
lol I should rephrase my question:

Which one of you swindled your raid group into carrying your jugg dps through first and third floor before the fight got easier?
I do agree with you, saying that it matters a lot about who you play with and we could sit here all day and say "well if i had such and so on a team then I could get revanchist". You may be right.
I could also say i could have created facebook, i just didn't surround myself with the right people/engineers or coders to get the job done....but I could have done it. As much as "you could do it", the real reality is many didn't. There is nothing wrong with staying on your tight group of friends, Some people choose that.

I have several friends that I think are very talented but they choose to wipe to underlurker and torque night after night with their friends. Nothing wrong with that, I personally can't stand it, but my question is really, who did everything they needed to, to get a title.

I mean I don't blame any one of our awesome juggers re-rolling this tier for their raid team. It's commendable. Regardless if you can put up the top numbers, we take more damage, have the least amount of viable utility and above all else, we're melee. We are an ancor to a raid team's progression...sooner or later.
So bravo to those of us rolling other classes on our teams, but for those still fighting the good fight, who got it? who succeeded?
Kalizo
Failure
Twitch

darth_psychose's Avatar


darth_psychose
05.31.2015 , 03:32 AM | #523
on darth nihilus there is an other jugg dps who got the title (pre nerf or not i dunno remember) nilus @phantoms guild.
In my guild my jugg is bis 198 but i created 2pt. If jugg got some good reflect cheese in the next content i'll play it but if not i got my PTs. In progression PoV PTs is better than jugg except for fight like torque prenerf or monolith but it's always fight with reflect abuse. Just compare skill tree between pt or operative and jugg. Crit buff, surge buff again and again. Our defensive cooldown are op in pvp cuz it's a lot of life gain but in fact the lack of aoe dmg reduction make a huge gap. i don't know how they can buff the jugg in pve making him not op in pvp. Maybe buff dot or some surge buff and take out one of our defensive cooldown (enraged defense 5 stack in dps and 12 only in tank i don't know). You can pull some good number on majority of the boss but on the real challenge you are a p$$y near to pt or operative (dunno about assassin and mara)
Kala - <Rash> - Discord : Kala#9344

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
05.31.2015 , 12:46 PM | #524
Quote: Originally Posted by darth_psychose View Post
on darth nihilus there is an other jugg dps who got the title (pre nerf or not i dunno remember) nilus @phantoms guild.
In my guild my jugg is bis 198 but i created 2pt. If jugg got some good reflect cheese in the next content i'll play it but if not i got my PTs. In progression PoV PTs is better than jugg except for fight like torque prenerf or monolith but it's always fight with reflect abuse. Just compare skill tree between pt or operative and jugg. Crit buff, surge buff again and again. Our defensive cooldown are op in pvp cuz it's a lot of life gain but in fact the lack of aoe dmg reduction make a huge gap. i don't know how they can buff the jugg in pve making him not op in pvp. Maybe buff dot or some surge buff and take out one of our defensive cooldown (enraged defense 5 stack in dps and 12 only in tank i don't know). You can pull some good number on majority of the boss but on the real challenge you are a p$$y near to pt or operative (dunno about assassin and mara)
Juggs are far from OP in PVP right now, seriously. You can make an argument that Maras are superior, and honestly, every other class eviscerates juggernauts. We only have good cooldowns, but our passive survivability is... ****.
Rydarus Veneris the Revanchist, Beater #fedaracarrychist
Vigilance Guardian guide on Dulfy! Like my guide? Support my Referral Link!
Last Guardian DPS because dead game

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
05.31.2015 , 04:08 PM | #525
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
Juggs are far from OP in PVP right now, seriously. You can make an argument that Maras are superior, and honestly, every other class eviscerates juggernauts. We only have good cooldowns, but our passive survivability is... ****.
I think you're underrating passive survivability for Vigilance/Vengeance, base DR is higher than any other DPS spec in the game and played properly, the DR from your charge should have at least a 20% uptime which is huge, not to mention the stun immunity. That all has to be factored into passives. On the other hand, Rage/Focus is definitely really squishy without cd's, I agree with that.
Kandel - Juggernaut Lef - Guardian
Nyeetra - Assassin Milarra - Sage
Lendros - Mercenary Jakor - Vanguard
Iseline - Operative Lysandere - Gunslinger

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
05.31.2015 , 08:05 PM | #526
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
I think you're underrating passive survivability for Vigilance/Vengeance, base DR is higher than any other DPS spec in the game and played properly, the DR from your charge should have at least a 20% uptime which is huge, not to mention the stun immunity. That all has to be factored into passives. On the other hand, Rage/Focus is definitely really squishy without cd's, I agree with that.
Base DR is good, but we lack AOE DR, and more importantly, internal DR, which is incredibly important in the current meta.
Rydarus Veneris the Revanchist, Beater #fedaracarrychist
Vigilance Guardian guide on Dulfy! Like my guide? Support my Referral Link!
Last Guardian DPS because dead game

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
05.31.2015 , 08:56 PM | #527
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
Base DR is good, but we lack AOE DR, and more importantly, internal DR, which is incredibly important in the current meta.
AOE DR is negligible now with the nerf of Smash spec, the only thing significant that affects is Death Field.

Internal DR, we already have +4% from the base Vig/Veng tree, and +20% from every charge (both of those affect all damage, not just energy/kinetic), what other DPS classes have more than that? I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head, I know a few have dot DR but that's it.

And I know you're saying passives, but you have to consider cooldowns in the overall picture, and we have the ultimate anti-dot weapon in ED/FD, so that can't be ignored.
Kandel - Juggernaut Lef - Guardian
Nyeetra - Assassin Milarra - Sage
Lendros - Mercenary Jakor - Vanguard
Iseline - Operative Lysandere - Gunslinger

Bradypan's Avatar


Bradypan
05.31.2015 , 10:48 PM | #528
Just killed Revan on my Jugg DPS tonight, one month after I killed it on my PT DPS lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0rCNslWry4
Dread Master Gate Crasher Dragonslayer Mlk Stillunviable from Beyond the Revanchist, Vengeance Jugg
Mand'alr the post-buff pre-nerf Revanchist, AP PT
4/4 NiM, 12/12 NiM, 10/10 NiM, 10/10 HM
<Nightmare Power> <Torva Nex> Jedi Covenant

GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
05.31.2015 , 11:37 PM | #529
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
AOE DR is negligible now with the nerf of Smash spec, the only thing significant that affects is Death Field.

Internal DR, we already have +4% from the base Vig/Veng tree, and +20% from every charge (both of those affect all damage, not just energy/kinetic), what other DPS classes have more than that? I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head, I know a few have dot DR but that's it.

And I know you're saying passives, but you have to consider cooldowns in the overall picture, and we have the ultimate anti-dot weapon in ED/FD, so that can't be ignored.
Not denying this, but the focus on cooldowns tends to make people disregard that in ranked, both yolo and group, juggs aren't doing so hotly, and I think that we do need some sort of offensive buff, even in PVP
Rydarus Veneris the Revanchist, Beater #fedaracarrychist
Vigilance Guardian guide on Dulfy! Like my guide? Support my Referral Link!
Last Guardian DPS because dead game

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
06.01.2015 , 12:04 AM | #530
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
Not denying this, but the focus on cooldowns tends to make people disregard that in ranked, both yolo and group, juggs aren't doing so hotly, and I think that we do need some sort of offensive buff, even in PVP
Juggs have issues in ranked entirely because of damage output, at least for Vig/Veng, its got nothing to do with survivability. The one thing that would aid survivability but also improve our damage and help all specs is making interecede root break baseline, would make it immensely easier for us to stay on target, especially considering how easy it is for our most similar melee counterpart (Maras) to pop predation now.

I'm telling you, add this to your list of Jugg changes, Intercessor now allows Intercede to break movement impairing effects, and gives immunity to those effects for the duration of the DR bonus (6 seconds). This effect applies to both the Juggernaut and the Intercede target.

Boom, you now have an amazing heroic utility AND the answer to all Jugg movement problems.
Kandel - Juggernaut Lef - Guardian
Nyeetra - Assassin Milarra - Sage
Lendros - Mercenary Jakor - Vanguard
Iseline - Operative Lysandere - Gunslinger