Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Update on Sentinel and Marauder

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Update on Sentinel and Marauder
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Death_By_Smiley's Avatar


Death_By_Smiley
04.06.2015 , 09:33 AM | #11
Basically, the issue is marauders have trouble "holding onto" prey. That said, their DPS is fine if they can, but due to lack of physics immunities, it's very difficult.

Really, if marauders need something, it's utility based physics or stun immunity. However, derpcakes on these forums associate all negative problems with "we need more DPS" not realizing that any problems are uptime related.
There are some that call me...Smiley
I like to raid. I also like to alt hop.
<The Drunk Tanks> | Shadowlands

giorgo's Avatar


giorgo
04.06.2015 , 09:34 AM | #12
Rofl.Concetration is currently the best out of the 3 disciplines and every living person knows that.The reason that concetration underperforms is because this spec is boring as **** and no sentinel plays it.Traditionaly the 2 most played specs were watchman and combat.Other than that,yeah,this whole post is ridiculous.Once more you guys proved that you are clueless and that makes me sad.Take a look at the leaderboards and the ratings ffs.Take a look at your data to see how much underpresented sentinels are in pvp.Utilities are the epitome of mess,this class is the epitome of mess.But enough is enough i guess,sub runs out in 5 days.

KingDeathII's Avatar


KingDeathII
04.06.2015 , 09:34 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,
Marauder/Sentinel PvP Viability:
As it presently stands, Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman are performing well in Solo Ranked and Group Ranked PvP, respectively. We target a 50% win rate for each Discipline in PvP, and Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman are slightly above this ideal win rate. Carnage/Combat is the seventh most effective Discipline (out of 24 Imperial/Republic total Disciplines) with a win rate that is right on target. Annihilation/Watchman is ranked seventh in Solo Ranked PvP (out of 24 Imperial/Republic total Disciplines) with a win rate that is equally on target. Additionally, Carnage/Combat is currently in one of the top 5 Group Ranked PvP class compositions, and this composition has an 82.6% win rate. While win rates are not the sole variable that we balance PvP performance from, these numbers provide evidence of Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman viability in broad PvP scenarios.
Im curious. Do you guys even look at your official Leaderboards for ranked PVP? Because if you did, you would see that the TOP RANKED sentinel/marauder is currently at rank 110. That is the BEST marauder in the entire game and he isnt even in the top 100 players! How can you say that a class is fine if that class isnt even in the top 100? His rating in solo is 1884, which is much lower than any of the other class's top ratings.

In grouped ranked, the top ranked marauder is currently #32 and the only class's top player that is lower than the top Marauder in grouped ranked is a Mercenary.

Are you legitimately telling the players that Marauders are in a good spot when they arent even in the top 100 in Solos and only doing worse than every other class other than a Merc in grouped? Even if I grant you the fact that 50% of Maras are winning, that doesnt mean anything meaningful because they are still underperforming when compared to other classes. Nobody really cares how marauders are doing when compared to themselves because that isnt a good metric to use when balancing a class. Class balance should be done as a comparison to other classes so that we dont have classes which are far outperforming and parsing than another.

From what I can understand, the developers logic on PVP balance is that you are looking at a kid who is failing most his test and then saying, Oh well hes actually doing well because other kids who are also failing their classes are at least passing 50% of their tests within the classes. That really doesnt say anything meaningful about that kid because the fact still remains that hes failing his classes (and has a 50% average) when compared to other kids in his class who are getting straight As. You should be comparing the kid who is failing to the kid who is getting straight As to make him get his stuff in order and get a tutor to help him not fail. In this metaphor, a tutor is the developer who can fix the class balance.

DynamiCtagez's Avatar


DynamiCtagez
04.06.2015 , 09:35 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Death_By_Smiley View Post
Basically, the issue is marauders have trouble "holding onto" prey. That said, their DPS is fine if they can, but due to lack of physics immunities, it's very difficult.

Really, if marauders need something, it's utility based physics or stun immunity. However, derpcakes on these forums associate all negative problems with "we need more DPS" not realizing that any problems are uptime related.
I think pretty much 90% of the feedback given during the last 3 PTS patches regarding Mara/Sent was all about mobility and utility.

revcrisis's Avatar


revcrisis
04.06.2015 , 09:38 AM | #15
The reason, Annihilation and Carnage are currently ranked somewhat high in solo ranked is because anyone crazy enough to play it is a GREAT player. Great players can make any spec work. Kand on The Bastion made Arsenal Merc work seasons 1-3. Why? Because he's a great player. But just because Anni/Carnage are rated somewhat decently in solo ranked in terms of win rate, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS FINE.

Let's take a look at the first page of Solo Ranked.
http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/cl...tinel-marauder Rank #1: 1884 Rating. Rank #50: 1364 Rating

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/class/shadow-assassin Rank #1: 2907 Rating. Rank #50: 1781 Rating.

So basically the number 50 solo Marauder in the world is rated at a pathetic 1364. The number 50 sin in the world is rated 1781. I think this speaks volumes. The average marauder is probably rated below 1000. The average sin? Much, much higher.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.

Theshadowbehind's Avatar


Theshadowbehind
04.06.2015 , 09:39 AM | #16
Alright done playing my marauder, seeing the developers of this game basicly just admitted that they don't care about the class. Only 6 marauders will get the ranked tier 1 rewards for season 4 in pvp, 5 in solo ranked and 1 in group ranked and you say the class is perfectly fine? Basicly 2 marauders in group ranked will get the top 3 tier rewards but won't get the the tier 1 rewards..... makes sense right.

You guys are basicly insulting the community by making short sighted posts such as these. Those statics are so high becaus only a small percentage of the player base haven't given up on marauders yet.

Jmenks's Avatar


Jmenks
04.06.2015 , 09:40 AM | #17
Carnage/Combat is currently in one of the top 5 Group Ranked PvP class compositions, and this composition has an 82.6% win rate. While win rates are not the sole variable that we balance PvP performance from, these numbers provide evidence of Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman viability in broad PvP scenarios.

Fury/Concentration is in the lower half of the PvP spectrum. Like other classes that are underperforming, this is, and shall continue to be, addressed in upcoming class balance updates.


-The SWTOR Combat Team[/color][/QUOTE]

Ummmm......I think you guys got your ranked numbers confused with 2 seasons ago for group ranked. There is no way maras, especially carnage, are being successful in GR. You know, when the meta was hard swapping and not "lets derp with 1 or 2 hatred and see who we kill." Marauders don't suffer from damage output either, it's that they are so easily kiteable, every class can just LOL at them and run away (I'm not a mara expert at all, but I face them on a lot of toons and LOL at them while kiting and killing them.) This would be pretty obvious if you watched streams or you know.....actually played the game.

Star Forge
(bot)

znihilist's Avatar


znihilist
04.06.2015 , 09:42 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by KingDeathII View Post
Im curious. Do you guys even look at your official Leaderboards for ranked PVP? Because if you did, you would see that the TOP RANKED sentinel/marauder is currently at rank 110. That is the BEST marauder in the entire game and he isnt even in the top 100 players! How can you say that a class is fine if that class isnt even in the top 100? His rating in solo is 1884, which is much lower than any of the other class's top ratings.

In grouped ranked, the top ranked marauder is currently #32 and the only class's top player that is lower than the top Marauder in grouped ranked is a Mercenary.

Are you legitimately telling the players that Marauders are in a good spot when they arent even in the top 100 in Solos and only doing worse than every other class other than a Merc in grouped? Even if I grant you the fact that 50% of Maras are winning, that doesnt mean anything meaningful because they are still underperforming when compared to other classes. Nobody really cares how marauders are doing when compared to themselves because that isnt a good metric to use when balancing a class. Class balance should be done as a comparison to other classes so that we dont have classes which are far outperforming and parsing than another.

From what I can understand, the developers logic on PVP balance is that you are looking at a kid who is failing most his test and then saying, Oh well hes actually doing well because other kids who are also failing their classes are at least passing 50% of their tests within the classes. That really doesnt say anything meaningful about that kid because the fact still remains that hes failing his classes (and has a 50% average) when compared to other kids in his class who are getting straight As. You should be comparing the kid who is failing to the kid who is getting straight As to make him get his stuff in order and get a tutor to help him not fail. In this metaphor, a tutor is the developer who can fix the class balance.
Not to mention there are 21 Marauders and Sentinels in the top 1000, which is 6 times less than it should be if things are okay.

Zeldoon's Avatar


Zeldoon
04.06.2015 , 09:42 AM | #19
Sweet, balancing the class based on our ranked leaderboards. Take into account the handful of people with single digit wins in our top 50 into your formula for class balance.
Khrosis - Carnage Marauder
Griffíth - Combat Sentinel

Sladed's Avatar


Sladed
04.06.2015 , 09:48 AM | #20
Words cannot express just how out of touch with your game you seem to be.

By any statistical standard, taking ranked PvP win rate and using that as a benchmark is just a poor metric. How about, as several have already mentioned, taking into account how many of the top ranked players are actually playing Marauder or Sentinel at a high rating? I'm entirely sure the landscape will cause you to draw an entirely different conclusion.

Players are always prone to complain about something. Scissors beats paper, nerf scissors. But I can't comprehend that you're willing to completely disregard the mountain of requests and helpful suggestions that people have spent time coming up with.

You really don't understand the meaning of balance do you? GG Bioware.