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Oh No!!! Another 3.0 Combat Sentinel Guide? Yep! :)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Oh No!!! Another 3.0 Combat Sentinel Guide? Yep! :)

Bahadori's Avatar


Bahadori
12.23.2014 , 07:15 AM | #1
Guides for the current expansion can be found through the following post as well as through www.Hayete.net

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=849307

CycloH's Avatar


CycloH
12.23.2014 , 08:59 AM | #2
That's actually a pretty good guide to be honest... hey, you can never go wrong with people making a contribution to the community, so hats off to you man! Very nice work
Hexane Jedi Sentinel.
Hxane Sniper.
Vahex Mercenary
Intrepid | Push Harbinger

Bahadori's Avatar


Bahadori
12.23.2014 , 09:05 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by CycloH View Post
That's actually a pretty good guide to be honest... hey, you can never go wrong with people making a contribution to the community, so hats off to you man! Very nice work
Thanks brother! I love the class and more specifically this spec and i know people who have given up on it since 3.0 so was just hoping to showcase that it is still great and capable of being competitive Thanks for the support

Kurkina's Avatar


Kurkina
12.23.2014 , 11:12 AM | #4
I believe there is a problem with the various guides that have surfaced (this one, Vulkk on dulfy.net, and various other "methods" outlined in individual posts). If followed, none of them will lead to competitive dps in an ops situation against other classes, because they do not deal with the core issue of the spec:

How to achieve MasterStrike with Zen during every 2nd precision window.

This is quite difficult, as we must balance focus spending to generate centering in a very short and precise timeframe, lest Zen become out of alignment with that all important "every-second-precision-window". But if achieved, that difficulty will reward us with having dps that is competitive with the other classes.

These various spammy builds that are being detailed on the forums cannot be competitive on a design level, and here is why. Most guides that people are talking about boil down to this:

1. Use Zen on cooldown, no matter how it aligns with precision
2. Use Precision (on cooldown) with MasterStrike when it happens to be under Zen
3. Use Precision (on cooldown) with ClashingBlast and a filler when not under Zen
4. Use a bunch of fillers in between Precision windows
5. If you have ZERO latency, sneak in Dispatch or TST just before Precision for some extra dps

... and that's it? Sorry, but this is preposterously easy, and no matter what we think of the devs, they surely didn't design a system like this with the intent of it being competitive with more difficult rotations/systems in other classes.

Again, the key to this system is aligning Zen and MasterStrike with every other Precision window. Look at it this way: how do we explain the "astounding coincidence" that it is actually possible to do what I'm talking about (given cooldown lenghts) with proper focus vs. centering management if it were NOT meant to be? I say the spec IS meant to be played this way, and the devs designed it with that potential in mind.

I urge the Combat Sentinel community to focus on this issue and share as much information and as many tricks as possible on how to make it happen. This way we can progress to the same level that KBN brought us to pre 3.0 and be a respected spec in the game. Otherwise, I'm afraid we will be mired in mediocrity with uncompetitive dps that will not be suitable to beat HM enrage timers.

As I posted elsewhere, here is what I have found so far, good for 3 uses of MasterStrike under Zen through a total of 5 precision windows:

Leap (Zen in the air) > ZS > BR >

[P+MS > CB ] >

Disp > TST > BR > ZS >

[P+CB > BR] >

BR > BR > Disp > BR (Zen) > ZS

[P+MS > CB] >

TST > BR > BR > ZS >

[P+CB > BR] >

BR > Disp > BR > BR > ZS > BR (Zen) >

[P+MS > CB]

Focus works out exactly for this to work, without having to delay precision for a single GCD (depeding on your lag). Unfortunately, I have not been able to get Zen to align with MS in the next opportunity (7th Precision window), because I run out of focus. In an ops situation this could be solved by the Rebuke and DefensiveForms utilities generating focus, I will have to wait and see how that goes.

Those are my thoughts, I hope more people come onboard and that we can work this out to a fine science.

Bahadori's Avatar


Bahadori
12.23.2014 , 12:11 PM | #5
That is all good in theory and you're spot on with pretty much everything you put there. However... from experience i'm telling you that you will have an EXTREMELY difficult time pulling that off in a raid situation. I dont teach people how to be the best on a Dummy, standing still, on your ship, with no mechanics involved. I do however teach the knowledge you need to be competitive and progressive in raid scenarios. I do not think there is a single fight in the new 3.0 SMs/HMs where you would have enough time to pull off what you are suggesting. Does what you propose make sense, Absolutely. Is it in fact practical, in my opinion no. With that said i'm sure Vulkk would agree with me.

As far as being competitive the vast majority of the time i top the DPS boards in damage on boss fights, generally on trash too. There are only two other Combat Sentinels on Jedi Covenant who i know will out do me everytime. With that said it's always very close, very close. You're competitive comment i personally think holds no water when people are out there doing the complete opposite using these same techniques. Thanks for the comment though mate.

Projawa's Avatar


Projawa
12.23.2014 , 12:52 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Bahadori View Post
That is all good in theory and you're spot on with pretty much everything you put there. However... from experience i'm telling you that you will have an EXTREMELY difficult time pulling that off in a raid situation. I dont teach people how to be the best on a Dummy, standing still, on your ship, with no mechanics involved. I do however teach the knowledge you need to be competitive and progressive in raid scenarios. I do not think there is a single fight in the new 3.0 SMs/HMs where you would have enough time to pull off what you are suggesting. Does what you propose make sense, Absolutely. Is it in fact practical, in my opinion no. With that said i'm sure Vulkk would agree with me.

As far as being competitive the vast majority of the time i top the DPS boards in damage on boss fights, generally on trash too. There are only two other Combat Sentinels on Jedi Covenant who i know will out do me everytime. With that said it's always very close, very close. You're competitive comment i personally think holds no water when people are out there doing the complete opposite using these same techniques. Thanks for the comment though mate.
Pretty much. Guides are important for getting the basics. What really matters is how quickly a player can adapt and improvise during an encounter, and how good they are at avoiding death and unnecessary damage. Death = zero dps

BTW I didn't see Saber Ward mentioned in your guide. It may also be useful to talk about managing centering stacks for utility vs zen.

Bahadori's Avatar


Bahadori
12.23.2014 , 01:52 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Projawa View Post
Pretty much. Guides are important for getting the basics. What really matters is how quickly a player can adapt and improvise during an encounter, and how good they are at avoiding death and unnecessary damage. Death = zero dps

BTW I didn't see Saber Ward mentioned in your guide. It may also be useful to talk about managing centering stacks for utility vs zen.
Hey good looking out man! Not sure how in the world i skipped that but it has been written in now.

For your second suggestion I actually touch on this point in the video guide addition referring to utility in using Inspiration (or Transendence) vs Zen.

Thanks again!

g_mK's Avatar


g_mK
12.23.2014 , 02:40 PM | #8
I actually find easier on raids to get MS inside a PS window since there is a higher centering generation.
The ingenious gentleman Dn-Quijote de la Mancha

Sarafain's Avatar


Sarafain
12.23.2014 , 02:50 PM | #9
Raid situations are different then dummy parsing but the "best" filler for a Gore/PS remains the same. To effectively DPS in raid you need to monitor your Centering/Fury, both building and using, and judge what Gore/PS window to use Ravage/MS, and if you should use or hold it because of mechanics. Ravage\MS should NOT be used without Berserk\Zen, you risk misisng the 3rd hit as well as it being impossible to regularly hit DB\CB.

I would argue it's just as difficult now as it was pre 2.10 as you have to watch Centering/Fury stacking, use it at the right time, dump the stacks of Zen/Berserk, repeat all while trying to effectively line it up with Gore/PS windows.

Bahadori's Avatar


Bahadori
12.23.2014 , 03:36 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by g_mK View Post
I actually find easier on raids to get MS inside a PS window since there is a higher centering generation.
After practice and with experience it does line up roughly every second Precision as far as using Master Strike. However with alot of the new raid mechanics, Sparky in Ravagers is a great example with his Rampage, if you're going through your rotation and priorities correctly your Master Strike will have to be delayed at some point because of raid/boss mechanics. Not an opinion, its a fact. You are correct though Centering comes alot faster in 3.0 than before.

@ Sarafain - I could not agree with you more, absolutely spot on mate.