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Marauder Q&A - DPS and you.


Kricys's Avatar


Kricys
12.19.2011 , 01:52 AM | #11
Interesting. Never gave rage a shot. Is it worth to try at 44 or wait til 50 and geared?
Kricys. Marauder. Vulkar Highway

doombomb's Avatar


doombomb
12.19.2011 , 05:49 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandermill View Post
The Rage tree is currently best end game PVE tree. That's all I posted. I'll be continuing to update this thread more and more, as it's a work in progress.
To answer your question. The Shii-cho Form, with armor penetration, will allow for harder hitting attacks. The problem with bleeds are, we arent a primarily bleed based class. So, with armor pen always gaining in it's value as armor values go up. It helps surpass other specs.
As for Crit or endurance. Always get Crit.
To answer the difference between Carnage, and others. When you're fifty, a similar geared Rage Maruader will be out performing Carnage and Annihilation. It's just the synergy of the tree, and assuming perfect rotation for optimal dps.
Annihilation comes close, but the problem is rupture dosent scale as well as it should, it may be fixed, so the more gear you get, the more direct damage will scale, versus bleeds. Bleeds ignoring armor all together, but the advantage is going to be arp (armor penetration)

I'll get the math done later, but the basic idea for top end damage, is abilities at 50 to their rage costs and cooldowns. However, the other large difference is, is the ability to cumulatively stack powers / abilities. Smash once it's at 4 stack, is one of our best damage to rage abilities. Along with the additional 30% it gets further in the tree to enhance it.

Again. I'll be posting more as I come, and will try to keep up with everyone. But post your feedback with numbers, not just feelings if you can. And remember skill, and managing animations to abilities will also help your damage increase tremendously, due to no current ability queuing.
Really seems like you're making your claim based purely on speculation.

Viga's Avatar


Viga
12.19.2011 , 09:08 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by BarcodeX View Post
Really? I thought Rage tree would be the best for PvP due to all the slow-impairing effects + the major crit bonuses. I mean crit is good for pve but the slow impairing effects aren't necessarily needed.

That's exactly how I view the Rage tree. The boost to smash looks nice when you fight large groups of mobs, but when you are fighting a single boss I don't really see the point in spending all those points on movement impairments just to get the boost.
However, I would like to see what a Rage build can do in PvP.

Zandermill's Avatar


Zandermill
12.19.2011 , 11:39 AM | #14
Not really making things based on speculation, but based on ramp up time. Smash has a ramp up time, it is an effective attack. As for rage and its movement imparing effects.. Did you even look at the build? As for smash. yes its logical to have in the dps rotation, because of the guaranteed crit, and due to the 130% extra damage.

If you're going to call speculation, look at how talents build together, and give more then anecdotal evidence. Also, if you've missed it Force crush base is 302 damage per second over 5 seconds, then 802. It's the strongest ability we have for it's cooldown. Mind you, it also benefits from Dark Res.

Finally, if you believe that moment increases are bad, then you really have no clue on what higher uptime on a target is, and how we very well have to change and move to different targets. Rage on a whole, has the ability to have higher uptime then almost any other melee based class.
Go Sith, or go home.
I was once a Sith Marauder; but then I took an arrow to the knee.
-Desertpunk-
-Anchorhead-

doombomb's Avatar


doombomb
12.19.2011 , 12:05 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandermill View Post
Not really making things based on speculation, but based on ramp up time. Smash has a ramp up time, it is an effective attack. As for rage and its movement imparing effects.. Did you even look at the build? As for smash. yes its logical to have in the dps rotation, because of the guaranteed crit, and due to the 130% extra damage.

If you're going to call speculation, look at how talents build together, and give more then anecdotal evidence. Also, if you've missed it Force crush base is 302 damage per second over 5 seconds, then 802. It's the strongest ability we have for it's cooldown. Mind you, it also benefits from Dark Res.

Finally, if you believe that moment increases are bad, then you really have no clue on what higher uptime on a target is, and how we very well have to change and move to different targets. Rage on a whole, has the ability to have higher uptime then almost any other melee based class.
See, this comes off as you looking at the talents and speculating their potential. Yes, 100% crit on one of our moves is great, but it's one move. Annihilation has a bunch of bleeds, the damage over time will surely make it number one spec! Carnage has a lot of burst, it will surely be the number one spec!

Rage has a lot of good talents, but this thread hasn't proven its viability in pve at all. Until we have numbers from a lot of level 50s, speculation is all you or me have. And I happen to disagree with you.

DarthSomedude's Avatar


DarthSomedude
12.19.2011 , 12:25 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandermill View Post
...
Q Whats currently the best end game spec?
A Currently a heavy Rage build seems to be coming out ahead in purely DPS -PVE content. 2/8/31 seems to be the most effective.
...
Nice guide, thanks for putting it together!

I have one question about the spec. More specifically, how it is being measured. How do you know that any spec is ahead of any other without any sort of damage meters or combat log? Or is there some way to pull that data that I don't know about?

BarcodeX's Avatar


BarcodeX
12.19.2011 , 12:37 PM | #17
Was following another person's Rage build and I LOVE it. PvE is so much easier than it was wit h Carnage. My smash crits for 1k (of course it's 100% crit all the time due to the talents). 1k AOE with a 15 second cooldown is really good. So glad I respec'd to Rage.

Zandermill's Avatar


Zandermill
12.19.2011 , 12:42 PM | #18
Using basic measure of theory craft. That is the ability to gauge how things perform in a perfect rotation. You can craft the basis of what would do the best dps, based upon cooldowns, modifiers, base line sep. (Strength equivalency points) and build a basis of what will perform better.

Currently the model is pointing at Rage as being the highest dps tree available, with carnage being last, and annihilation being middle to upper end. I dont want to point at any specific mmo. But the general idea is that theory crafting is what helps build the highest yield spec's. As for speculation, I wont deny the fact that speculation plays a part, but a majority of mathematics also works in favor of this.

If all things being equal, of 99.9% uptime on a target, then Rage will have a 10-13% lead on Annihilation, while maintaining a huge 30+ point lead over Carnage.
Go Sith, or go home.
I was once a Sith Marauder; but then I took an arrow to the knee.
-Desertpunk-
-Anchorhead-

Kricys's Avatar


Kricys
12.19.2011 , 03:41 PM | #19
Tried rage out while leveling and in warzones. Sticking with this spec for now. Damage is really great. Smash hits like a damn freight train. My damage reduction went up 7% as well.
Kricys. Marauder. Vulkar Highway

Fognir's Avatar


Fognir
12.19.2011 , 09:44 PM | #20
+1 to this thread. Thank you and hope you keep it up to date.