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IslanderRebel's Avatar


IslanderRebel
10.01.2020 , 04:59 AM | #371
Quote: Originally Posted by fortheloveofcart View Post
Firstly, lol!
Won't be forced to play PvP at all. Ever. Especially not ranked.
If I wanted to immerse myself in a toxic atmosphere I'd just go play League of Legends.
Who actually thought THIS is what we wanted from a MAJOR update? Or any update??
I understand that working on Story (hint for you Bioware, this is what we are actually waiting for!) has been made difficult due to the virus outbreak... But you totally failed to make up for that with this awful idea. At least for me.
This sorta makes me feel like there is no point having a subscription until you bother doing something substantial, because I've done all the worthwhile stuff up until this point, and I'm tired of doing the same dailies and heroics over and over again.
I just don't understand how a game based on it's unique story class missions, and a game company based on it's in depth story writing, can be so neglectfully ignorant and slow in releasing actual substantial story content.
I agree with you 100%. To hell with toxic rank PVP for a damn mat for a worthless augment. Another toy like the other Legendary augments from a previous update, eh, devs? Or like the moronic Ossus grind to make 258 junk. You toads want REAL PVP? Let's go play COD. Do you see any lightsabers out there, Jar Jar? I think not. tor pvp is a bloody joke. Remember Unicorn Stampede and that other bogus wintrading guild that threw matches way back at the beginning. Main reason you can take tor pvp and stick it. There are no honest matches out there.

IslanderRebel's Avatar


IslanderRebel
10.01.2020 , 05:05 AM | #372
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I refused to participate in the ossus 258 gear and I won't be getting these either. Again, see my outrage over the ossus gearing back then.

As to the "what's the goal of these things" - their point 2, as mentioned by you, directly insinuates they want people to run the same content they already have multiple times over. Why would they want people to repeat the same content they have already done, if they had more content coming in the near future?

If a say, new op was coming, I think it stands to reason that they would be occupying themselves pointing out a new op was coming rather than coming up with largely pointless grinds that serve mostly to piss off a large chunk of the player base.

Any gear grind is dramatically undermined by the scaling issue. Whats the point of getting 100 more mastery or whatever, when its capped anyway in literally everything except one op (and pvp and one fp for full disclosure).

My big issue with ossus gearing, as I stated then was adding gear with no level cap, new content, or really anything to justify adding a new gear tier. As someone who does occasionally PvP, I put myself at a disadvantage (and didn't do ranked) out of principle.

Obviously not enough people agreed with me and jumped on board the ossus gear bandwagon, because now, they're doing essentially the same thing again.

If we're pissed about this people, we have to do more than say we're pissed. If you, however angrily or miserably, go after these augments, pay their inevitably exorbitant prices off the gtn, or otherwise chase them; you are encouraging BW to continue this behavior. You are proving the point that offering new carrots (as mr Schmidt himself apparently put it) works. Refuse the carrot. There is obviously nothing that cannot be completed with current gear - they basically said that themselves. So to my mind there is also zero point releasing new gear tiers (augment tiers, whatever).

It also runs counter to the 6.0 design of lateral gearing. If new gear is needed, make new gear thats the same ilevel, but has a different bonus or effect.

Don't chase the carrot and prove to BW that this works.
I did the same thing for that bogus Ossus 258 grind. I didn't do any thing for that stuff. Just like when we had DVL. Did the same stuff we already completed years ago in order to get rewards. I said to hell with the last three HM fps in order to complete it. Only reason I did DVL was to help friends and guildies complete their quests. Same ol' same ol'. Only things that change are gear ratings and more hp for the same bosses.

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
10.01.2020 , 06:13 AM | #373
Quote: Originally Posted by fortheloveofcart View Post
While I do admire you for being chivalrous and trying to look at the bigger picture here, I do feel there is, or at least should be, a clear divide between 'carrot & sticks' (incentives) and starving your player community (of content), then tossing some scraps every now and again so we don't simply die off all together.
To be fair, every other active MMO has story content being released at steady intervals as well as their own Incentives.
The last story update we got on here was 6 months ago, and it was pitiful, despite being hyped to all hell! (short, and pointless)
True, I do acknowledge that content releases have both been few and far between for some time, but what was originally planned? Task at Hand came with update 6.1 in February. 6.2, the continuation of the Tenebrae curse story, was scheduled for June and if it had released then that would have been a four month gap. Then 6.3, the Mandalorian themed flashpoint, would have come near the end of the year, so a five~six month gap. In between that we would have received a new recurring event, All Worlds Swoop Rally, which did happen, and a new seasonal event, the Feast of Prosperity, which is happening near the end of October, which I take from their earlier communication was pushed back slightly.

So the scheduled for the year would have been:
  • February - The Task At Hand
  • June - conclusion of Tenebrae curse story and likely All Worlds Swoop Rally
  • September/October - Feast of Prosperity
  • December - Mandalorian themed FP

That was the plan, but the plan got tossed into a wood chipper. It was stated, unfortunately not here (which I think is a big problem), that they had some issues getting the team set up to work from home. The restrictions implemented in response to the pandemic prevented the VA's from recording for (originally) 6.2, which is why it was pushed to the end of the year. And remember, there are not just one set of VA's but three: English, French, and German. Do those other MMO's you mention have that limitation on their content, are they required to record their lines three times, with three different voice actors, possibly in three different countries, for each and every release?

I understand, the amount of content released has been slow; it has been that way for a while. Then right in the middle of this current content drought they release augments and classify them as an incentive to run certain content, content that is run by a minority of the playing community. To some that is going to look like BW is ignoring the rest of their playing community, but that ignores the other content we have received this year, and will receive this year, versus the fact that the only update to OPs this year is a higher difficulty.

In total this year will include:
  • A new stronghold
  • An increased difficulty for an existing OP
  • A new flashpoint, which will have a story component
  • Three story updates (including the story associated with that FP)
  • Two new events; one recurring, one seasonal
  • And no new content for PVP, just some QoL updates

To some the OP difficulty would not count as content. I would disagree, to an extent, as that was a new mountain to climb for progression raiders. PVP focused players will receive no new content for the entire year, but there has been and will be a number of hours focused on QoL updates for PVP. For the PVE, non-raid focused players, they are getting three story updates, part of which is included in a new flashpoint that will have story/solo modes. But all the focus is on these new augments, which will be slow to acquire and will have minimal impact on any game play outside of a few areas. The greatest impact from the new augments will be felt in PVP, primarily ranked, and progression raiding. The two areas that are getting the least amount of content and attention for the year, and the two areas where the mats required to craft these augments will drop.

I do not PVP, and I do not raid, so I could take the stance that this carrot is completely irrelevant to me and how dare BW not give me something. But that would be a very tone deaf stance considering all of the other non-PVP, non-raid focused content we are getting. The schedule got screwed up, the content releases have been slow, no argument there, but that affected everyone, not just me.

For me, personally, Swoop Rally is a bust. I avoided it the first two times due to the Conquest issue, but I did run it this past week and, honestly, it was not worth the wait. I hope I have enough reputation tokens saved up so I do not have to do that again. Feast of Prosperity, hopefully I like it. From what I saw in the stream last week it looks like it could be a fun little diversion, and there will be story tied to the event, too. I had Nightlife to occupy my time over the summer. Whilst is can get a tad boring, and RSI inducing, clicking the machines over, and over again, the incentive to play are the rewards, and I ended up with a lot of rewards (over 500 golden certs and over 200 CM certs). I also moved my main's home stronghold from Tatooine to Alderaan, which also released this year. I took a break after 6.0 due to the Conquest changes and came back right after 6.1.1 in April. Since then I have geared 19 characters on my main account with 306 rated gear, 12 of which are in a full 6-piece set bonus gear, and all of which have at least one, some two, tactical items. Between that, moving strongholds, redecorating others, working on gear on an alt account, too, and running events such as Nightlife I have found plenty to keep me occupied.

I weighed the cost vs benefit and decided that maintaining a subscription and continuing to play was worth it. I found my own value and made it worth while to me. When I felt, for myself, that there was a lack of value after 6.0 due to the Conquest changes I took a break. When I saw something that caught my interest I came back. It sounds like there are a number of people in this thread who are in need of a break. Taking occasional breaks are a good thing. I know that can be a difficult thing for some Americans to accept since we tend to get crap for paid holiday time off, and we are browbeaten with the message that taking time off is a bad thing, but the value of occasional breaks is well documented. That even applies to what one does in their leisure time. Sometimes, you just need to do something different for a while.
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elimatorxv's Avatar


elimatorxv
10.01.2020 , 06:21 AM | #374
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTergon View Post
except pvp and/or gsf has nothing to do with NPC's, it's all people based, player stuff


semantics
http://www.swtor.com/r/5SJ2Hw my referal link you can click it if you want for some goodies and 7 days subscription but only if willing

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
10.01.2020 , 07:24 AM | #375
Quote: Originally Posted by fortheloveofcart View Post
Firstly, lol!
Won't be forced to play PvP at all. Ever. Especially not ranked.
If I wanted to immerse myself in a toxic atmosphere I'd just go play League of Legends.
Who actually thought THIS is what we wanted from a MAJOR update? Or any update??
I understand that working on Story (hint for you Bioware, this is what we are actually waiting for!) has been made difficult due to the virus outbreak... But you totally failed to make up for that with this awful idea. At least for me.
This sorta makes me feel like there is no point having a subscription until you bother doing something substantial, because I've done all the worthwhile stuff up until this point, and I'm tired of doing the same dailes and heroics over and over again.
I just don't understand how a game based on it's unique story class missions, and a game company based on it's in depth story writing, can be so neglectfully ignorant and slow in releasing actual substantial story content.
Excellent observation.

Might I suggest that they are not "neglectfully ignorant" .... IMO what we are seeing right now is by design. It is unfortunate. But none-the-less it does seem to be the only real possible conclusion that we can come to.

While it is true that there have been small morsels or tidbits of reliable information as to the overall direction and intent of the scope of the game... IMO ... the REAL thoughts, direction, and specifics remain a total mystery. So much so that I wonder if those points even exist. This would apply to the following:
** Companions (affectively dead .... Barbie dolls to dress)
** New strong holds ( as well as fixing several bugs that exist on those that already exist)
** Addressing bug issues that have been around for months now
** Story advancement ( more than the usual 15 - 20 minute release)
** A genuine, actual expansion pack
** Multiple repeatable areas that are related to the new story lines : Heroics / dailies / PvP zones / Just to mention a FEW options (list is not complete).

It should be noted that this list is not complete. As such it should be noted that an extensive PROPER development of these areas would be of such a prodigious nature that it is highly unlikely to happen.

EDIT: It should be noted that I personally wish this were not true. However, given the evidence of the last few years ( the pandemic not withstanding) I'm seeing less ACTUAL evidence to the contrary.
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VonDooomm's Avatar


VonDooomm
10.01.2020 , 08:18 AM | #376
I can't get over how quickly your equipment gets maxed out. I've never played a game where you can't do anything to improve your abilities or equipment at endgame. I don't understand why people keep playing at endgame when it doesn't accomplish anything. I'm sick of making new characters. They finally made exactly ONE new augment that non PVPers can't even get. Of course people are upset about it.

fortheloveofcart's Avatar


fortheloveofcart
10.01.2020 , 10:14 AM | #377
Quote:
And remember, there are not just one set of VA's but three: English, French, and German. Do those other MMO's you mention have that limitation on their content, are they required to record their lines three times, with three different voice actors, possibly in three different countries, for each and every release?
Guild wars 2 does have the exact same thing, and has still produced, and released actual playable story content during this crazy time, as well as events and incentives. (This I do know for sure as I play that one, anything else is stuff I am aware of, but don't play myself so couldn't say is fact, so please feel free to let me know if I'm talking rubbish ) however, ESO, and FF14 also has multiple voiced languages.
ESO released a new expansion prior to the world being plunged into chaos (and at a steady rate previous to that), and people never seem to complain that FF hasn't bothered updating in an age, or has let them down with content.

I honestly do understand that it has been nigh on impossible to to voice, or even develop new content due to the worldwide pandemic, but that just shows how lazy and lax BW has been/still is at updating the game with actual solid content.
Content that expands the lore, story, or our toon as a character, rather than inflating already stupid trade prices, and forcing their players into content they don't want to do which makes it all the more glaringly obvious they haven't bothered with new content. (story since onslaught, which was a year ago.)

I do agree it is something which I guess is better than nothing, but to me, it more shows off the glaringly obvious lack of anything of true substance rather than covers it up.
You are of course right, it may just be time to take a break and come back in after some new content has been added. I do enjoy the game very much, but not when I'm just constantly repeating the same missions knowing where/when it all ends (for the time being at least). It feels like my toon is virtually waiting around, twiddling their thumbs which just feels stagnant and dull now. I subscribe not only because I enjoy the game, but because I want to support it, but as the world stands every penny counts and I just can't keep justifying the money when it's not adding anything new for me other than the chance to play ranked PvP to spend yet more money. (in game, but still! I love my credits! )

fortheloveofcart's Avatar


fortheloveofcart
10.01.2020 , 10:46 AM | #378
Quote:
Excellent observation.

Might I suggest that they are not "neglectfully ignorant" .... IMO what we are seeing right now is by design. It is unfortunate. But none-the-less it does seem to be the only real possible conclusion that we can come to.

While it is true that there have been small morsels or tidbits of reliable information as to the overall direction and intent of the scope of the game... IMO ... the REAL thoughts, direction, and specifics remain a total mystery. So much so that I wonder if those points even exist. This would apply to the following:
** Companions (affectively dead .... Barbie dolls to dress)
** New strong holds ( as well as fixing several bugs that exist on those that already exist)
** Addressing bug issues that have been around for months now
** Story advancement ( more than the usual 15 - 20 minute release)
** A genuine, actual expansion pack
** Multiple repeatable areas that are related to the new story lines : Heroics / dailies / PvP zones / Just to mention a FEW options (list is not complete).

It should be noted that this list is not complete. As such it should be noted that an extensive PROPER development of these areas would be of such a prodigious nature that it is highly unlikely to happen.

EDIT: It should be noted that I personally wish this were not true. However, given the evidence of the last few years ( the pandemic not withstanding) I'm seeing less ACTUAL evidence to the contrary.
Oh, I like you!
I totally agree with you. I'd have honestly been happier with MASSIVE bug fix update (for base game as well as expansions, strongholds, ect!)
Ahhh... Companions... I loved that they were one of the truly 'unique' aspects of this MMO. I absolutely adore the base game and your many interactions with them. The fact that they all have different personalities, the fact that your actions impact them for good or ill... I was always so hyped to go back to my ship and chat to everybody after a mission, gave me a real Mass Effect vibe, which I love!
Kotfe sorta brought that back a bit (after shadow of revan dropped the ball on that one...) but with new people.
I used to plan who I'd want with me depending on how my toon would act, now I just pick the one with the highest numbers so they can do their job.
(BW please make our companions great again.)
And yes to everything else! More story, new places, new lore.
Expansion and progression THAT is what keeps players playing, not grinding for new equipment, which unless your massively into tough raids or PvP are just numbers you don't really need, because there isn't anything new been added to use them on.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.01.2020 , 06:28 PM | #379
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
And Chris Schmidt agrees with you.

Said in the Theorycrafters Discord:

https://i.imgur.com/XtZRR5u.png

And the stated reason for adding them:

https://i.imgur.com/xbWc5e4.png

I will agree with anyone who says that this is the kind of thing that should be said on these forums, that both their motivation and a discussion thereof should occur here and not in a closed forum such as an invite only Discord channel, that the communication from the team as to that motivation is rather lacking, and the void created by the absence of such discussion and elucidation of their motivations propagates discussion such as we have seen in this thread. No argument from me there. But your assertion that they are releasing new gear as content does not gibe with their stated goals.
I just wish they had an official discord and didn’t rely on private ones run by over zealous personalities who get to decide whose welcome and whose not.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.01.2020 , 06:34 PM | #380
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
People will want them. I have no doubt they'll tune Aug availability to what the market will bear. Nothing will 'fix' crafting faster than scarcity pushing prices higher than people are willing to launder cash for.
I bet the credit sellers are really excited