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JattaGin's Avatar


JattaGin
06.23.2017 , 06:48 AM | #321
Quote: Originally Posted by CharlesBoyd View Post
(...)
A) The original plan was that we would have a trilogy of "Knights of" expansions focused on dealing with Valkorion and his Eternal Empire, with episodic chapters between them. The major story beats would occur in the expansions, while the episodic chapters would be just that: episodic, mostly stand-alone beats focused on returning companions and side stories.

B) The most common issues that we saw from the community feedback after KOTFE and the first few monthly chapters were:
  1. The story felt dragged out (monthly chapters in particular)
  2. At least partly due to #1, the companion-focused chapters were not as well-received as the KOTFE ones (although desire to get companions back remained high).
  3. Many players felt that there weren't enough choices in the storyline with big enough impacts/consequences, or that those impacts/consequences were delayed so far that they didn't feel meaningful or connected.
  4. Some folks simply didn't like the core premise. Introducing a new empire, expanding on Vitiate/Valkorion, players frozen in carbonite for five years, missing companions, etc.

C) Changes that were made as a result of that feedback:
  1. We compressed the story such that it would be completed in Knights of the Eternal Throne.
  2. Later monthly chapters were modified to focus more on the core storyline, and less on companion returns.
  3. The writers constructed the storyline of KOTET specifically to offer bigger choices that would pay off in visible and interesting ways.
  4. This was the core creative vision of the entire thing, so there wasn't much changed here - it wouldn't really be feasible. That's not to say that we ignored this feedback or don't take it seriously; it's just that any creative endeavor has some core concept at its heart that can't be changed without scrapping everything. This was the story direction that excited us as creators and fans, so it's the one we pursued even as we made the above changes along the way.

D) The end result: the overall storyline was cut down by more than a third so that it would play out more quickly, while simultaneously introducing more choices and consequences. Companion returns had to be put on the backburner to achieve these changes, and my original plan to do entire chapters for each of them just aren't feasible at this point, so we're currently working on plans to get them back as expediently as possible. (If I sound a little sad about that part in particular, I am, but I think it's perfectly reasonable that folks are out of patience on that one )
(...)
Sounds like your original plan would have been to my liking 100%. I am sad as well that your plan didn't work out. But thanks a lot for this interesting insight!

(I liked the concept of monthly chapters a lot, by the way.)
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ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.23.2017 , 07:20 AM | #322
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
Why is this yet another example in this single thread alone of someone stating that someone else should skim the forums to get evidence they are quite capable of getting themselves?

If you are going to bother making such a statement then get the evidence otherwise you are just talking nonsense.
I did get some evidence and posted it - notably BEFORE you made this comment. I posted links from the first 5 pages alone (about 6) with different people and their complaints about various aspects of the story if not the story as a whole.

The other guy didn't, and you haven't provided any.

So frankly, you are the guys talking nonsense, making strawman attacks, and failing miserably to represent what you guys say as truth, instead treating it as truth just because you said it, which by the way, no one made you the authority. And before you try the Pee Wee Herman "I know you are but what am I" retort, keep in mind, I provided some proof of my claims - which is what separates me from the type of argument you guys are making; I am not representing myself as the authority or even spokesperson. I provided links so that any person willing to actually investigate and not just talk out their rear can see different people from my self with similar complaints about the KOTFE story, and that it is still fresh enough that there are 6 threads in the first 5 pages as of last night, whereas there was only 1 thread giving kudos in the first 5 pages to an aspect of the story.

If you and others have to engage in word play and bad arguments to try to win a debate on this topic, all this means is deep down, you know you are wrong. I provided some proof. As of yet, the other side only talks of proof they won't share. Even a grade schooler could tell who is telling the truth in this case.

*Edit* - I take that back - the "proof" was 3 posts made in rapid succession at the end of December, that if you look through them, also had its share of detractors - about 50-50. The later threads I posted have for of a 70-30 slant against in total by rough estimates.

Still waiting for the 50 threads mentioned in support - I see 3 so far.

Lionflash's Avatar


Lionflash
06.23.2017 , 07:53 AM | #323
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Pee Wee Herman
The forums represent a small percentage of the overall player-base, according to the devs. No one can know how everybody thinks, how does it serve us? Based off charles' post it seems like the games' story in constantly shifting writers, ideas & directions. No expansion has been the same as any before it, it doesn't matter if you liked kot__ or not, nothing like it will ever probably be made again.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.23.2017 , 08:06 AM | #324
Quote: Originally Posted by Lionflash View Post
The forums represent a small percentage of the overall player-base, according to the devs. No one can know how everybody thinks, how does it serve us? Based off charles' post it seems like the games' story in constantly shifting writers, ideas & directions. No expansion has been the same as any before it, it doesn't matter if you liked kot__ or not, nothing like it will ever probably be made again.
A little history on me.

I was a former SWG player (for as much as people like to complain about the toxic community here, this place is care bear land compared to SWG, which was the most toxic MMO community in MMO history).

I served as a Senator for a stretch (think Influencer or player advocate with a direct line to the developers) for the Munitions profession at a time when Munitions was nerfed heavily, first by the Combat Upgrade, then again by the New Game Enhancements (CU and NGE). Those munitions players were bitter because at the time I served, Munitions had been ignored for 5 years and the developers had outright said they would NOT be making any more crafting changes back early on.

I pushed a proposal as a Senator that took into account the developers resources and time, and my knowledge of the game that actually got some positive feedback. I started selling that proposal (without breaking NDA or disclosing what the developers said) to a Munitions community that was so defeated and toxic that they outright said "why bother? The devs will never pay attention to us again."

So, I sold the proposal to the larger community and showed how having that proposal for Munitions would make their lives better in game - and it was a HIT. I never heard much more from the developers, my run as Senator ended, and I continued to push that proposal, HARD.

9 months later, that proposal was in the game, almost as I laid it out, and fresh blood came into the Munitions profession and it was revived - and the naysayers disappeared. And the game was a TON better for it.

My point?

I'm not one to give up just because some players say "the devs will never fix it so why bother?" I'm a stubborn ***, and if I think there's an idea that will make the game better, I'll keep pushing it no matter the headwind.

Because sometimes, all you need to get something implemented is to find the right angle to sell it to the dev team, and present it in a way that takes note of what challenges they may face in doing it, and proposing solutions to that in the same proposal.

Naysayers never bothered me one bit - those who can do, those who can't try to tell those who can they can't do it.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
06.23.2017 , 08:14 AM | #325
Quote: Originally Posted by menofhorror View Post
To the people liking the story:

It's all good if you like it but that also shows that you aren't bothered by continuity errors and plotholes (the entire Vitiate/Valkorion thing makes no sense to this day)
I wonder how much of that is because it was so rushed though? If Charles actually had to cut 2/3 of his story, it seems like much more could have been done to bring the story better closure. I obviously can't speak for Charles, but I have to assume that he's not entirely pleased with the story as it is either. I actually feel sorry for him, as a writer, having your work judged based on a 1/3 completed story isn't exactly fair to him.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force
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JellyBeannZ's Avatar


JellyBeannZ
06.23.2017 , 08:23 AM | #326
Hi,

How can I reach someone who can help me with an issue with my character? CS basically states hands are tied because the problem was not actually a bug, that it was "working as intended" due to "choices the player made earlier". I tried PM'ing Keith and Eric but only to find out earlier today that PM'ing is useless.

Balmorra Bonus Series 2 is broken, I am unable to continue the quest chain with my ONE character, my very first character that I created, and it has really ruined my experience with this game for me.


Please see: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=889046 and http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=852039 for reference. In Thread #889046 user perfect square describes how to recreate the issue

a) I want to know if this will ever end up being looked at? Will this ever be fixed? Is it even on the radar of future issues/fixes? honestly even a "no, this is not even on the table of things we're looking at right now", would be helpful [more important question]

b) [less important issue - but without a fix to this issue in some way, I still may end up not renewing my subscription come the end of the month as this has really ruined the game for me] - I just want help recreating my character because I can't afford to do it on my own (since she's essentially stuck forever and unable to progress through the quest chain) - and the cause of needing to recreate this character, and changing my original character (in an effort to pretend she isn't who she is) was not my fault!

Please, someone help?

I didn't want to post this publicly especially in regards to question b... but I don't know what to do.

PS: To be fair, CS did say they were sorry that they couldn't help, and they offered me some XP boosts for my character version 2 -- but honestly I wasn't asking for much; it came to a point where I said if they could at least help me recreate my character with items that were currently available in the CM I would appreciate it. Which at this point was basically just Thexan's robe. I didn't ask for a free unlock, or cartel coins, because I hadn't paid for those. I asked that if I recreated an identical character if I could at least have a free rename change and a copy of thexan's robe - they could even bind it to her - it's not like i was trying to scam something and put it on the gtn ... I was saving my free rename change and currently possessed cartel coins for other CM items - I'd appreciate it. I was going to delete my original character after newcharacter2.0 was created. I said this issue was so upsetting that I was thinking of unsubscribing (and still am, since all this is unfixed) they basically said we'll be sorry to see you go. like. okay.

PPS: I asked a much shorter question here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...&postcount=796 - and left the question only directly related to the OP topic

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
06.23.2017 , 08:43 AM | #327
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I wonder how much of that is because it was so rushed though? If Charles actually had to cut 2/3 of his story, it seems like much more could have been done to bring the story better closure. I obviously can't speak for Charles, but I have to assume that he's not entirely pleased with the story as it is either. I actually feel sorry for him, as a writer, having your work judged based on a 1/3 completed story isn't exactly fair to him.
On the one hand, I get it. But on the other hand, if you look at what Charles said, they also cut the story because the pacing wasn't working out (too boring for the players - what is it about story pacing that vexes bioware devs so much?), and if you consider player feedback, more of the story would not address the 2 major concerns - 1 being that it disregarded, else only paid lip service to all of your character's story prior to KOTFE, and 2, it didn't feel like Star Wars. Hate to say it, but more of "not Star Wars" isn't going to suddenly make it feel like Star Wars - because if they had to rush it, that means they kept only the crucial story beats, and if the crucial story beats didn't feel like Star Wars, then why expect less crucial beats to make it feel more like Star Wars? Doesn't connect.

The point is, if everyone is being honest, the KotFE and KotET stories were intentionally written as a "reboot" to ignore all the story that came before and start over. And based on the feedback and the problems the developers encountered, one could strongly argue that this was a bad creative decision - I could almost justify it if people hated the original story and wanted a new direction, but the opposite was true, which is why KotFE and KotET felt like a giant F.U. by the team to those asking for some form of continuation of their current, beloved class stories, even if it was handled in the manner of Shadow of Revan.

Now they have a new Producer. And many of us are hoping that now they've finished that story, they don't double down on bad, but go back to making stories the majority of players wanted - and then hopefully also begin to court them back, which isn't as impossible as it may seem - I've tried finding another MMO to play in the year I was off, and nothing out there comes close to SWTOR - give players the stories they WANT and allow them to feel listened to, and I think many will come back to the game. SWTOR lost its way a bit creatively in terms of story, but many people would be very happy if it could find itself again.

Sargrith's Avatar


Sargrith
06.23.2017 , 08:47 AM | #328
I've seen more than a few people say they liked how companions were returned via chapters. I actually don't like getting them back that way. Because it creates a roadblock in the story if you don't want that companion back. I would rather alerts that I can ignore or bypass.

Deewe's Avatar


Deewe
06.23.2017 , 09:19 AM | #329
Quote: Originally Posted by Khaleijo View Post
through the whole story I am constantly told I am THE leader, though i can't decide anything concerning tactic or plans.
Totally felt I had none saying and was just Lana and else pet.
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casirabit's Avatar


casirabit
06.23.2017 , 09:37 AM | #330
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I wonder how much of that is because it was so rushed though? If Charles actually had to cut 2/3 of his story, it seems like much more could have been done to bring the story better closure. I obviously can't speak for Charles, but I have to assume that he's not entirely pleased with the story as it is either. I actually feel sorry for him, as a writer, having your work judged based on a 1/3 completed story isn't exactly fair to him.
I too feel sorry for him not being able to finish his writing like he wanted. I understand that much as I have written some stories and then with our forum roleplay writing is necessary so it is sad to see something you start not finished. We had started another forum roleplay but due to one of our members having to have surgery (due to an bad accident) we had to stop and that can be very disappointing, even when you have a good reason.
A girl should be two things: classy and fabulous. A girl should also always be a lady even when arguing Referral: http://www.swtor.com/r/VkfKqj