Operative DPS is nearly useless in HMs and OPs due to numerous pushbacks from bosses, and

many boss attacks if close to boss. WHY, you might ask? Because 3/4 of Operative attacks, are melee

knife attacks, or so called ranged attacks, that require you to actually be close.

 

Now, for those that know me, and how long I've been this toon,

you might ask,"after 6 months, your just now,complaining?"

 

Mostly, i've been Gearing up, and thinking if i get geared enough, i might be able to

overcome this. It just isn't happening. I had to leave a EV HM group, to give them more of a chance

to beat the boss, we were stuck on.

 

This is unacceptable. I really think you guys need to stop

making these flashpoints harder, by adding these pushbacks, and proximity attacks, and make them

hard, by actually, making something you have to do, like hopping from island to island, or

like the droid, where you have to time a flame attack, or the barrels to explode,near a boss.

 

As for the specific complaint, you either need to allow us to change to sniper, or add in a

damage reduction skill or special,passive or active, so, that we can actually do the damage we

potentially can do, but is often cut in half, because we can't get close enough to the boss.

How exactly is your melee class different from others again? And exactly why do the operatives deserve a buff to get closer to the boss when other melee classes do not??? I'm confused.

Lets clear your confusion.

 

Operative attacks are mostly Knive attacks, which have an even shorter range than

the force users.

 

Most attacks on Operative(the most Damaging ones) require that you not move.

 

The few Long range attacks, require same.

 

Shorter distances than any melee, and more specials req no movement = loss of DPS on bosses.

 

How? Here is a typical scenario:

 

You set an orbital strike, which reqs me to be stationary for nearly 10 secs,

and boss throw a pushback, orbital falls, due to movement. You rush forward,

to use knife attacks and you get an aoe attack, from the boss, that healer can't heal you out of,

because you are now out of range for,like a circle heal, so, if your still alive, you fallback

out of range of knife attacks on boss, to get heals. Then the boss does something that requires

you to stay moving. If i'm moving, i can only do default attacks. If i'm moving away, even my bombs

and default attacks, don't go,unless i'm facing target.

 

All this means...NO DPS from me.

 

Boss then enrages, then kills group, all because half my attacks, are rendered moot.

 

At least, sniper can stay at long range, and shoot with multiple attacks, i have only one long range

which requires to be undercover, which doesn't work if i get pushed back, and knocked off my feet.

 

Had i known, the game would have been so anti Operative, at high level content, i would have never

rolled an Operative. My fault, for assuming that the game would be balanced for all playstyles.

Additionally, some specials don't activate, without either a melee attack,or a heal.

So, those specials never activate, if i can't get in close, on a boss.

 

Tactical Advantage is the proc, and it opens a whole bunch of extra dps.

However, it seems to only proc when i hit the target, with certain melee attacks.

Carbine burst being the most powerful, funny, they tied a ranged attack to melee.

 

However the pvp community got upset at this, and they made it alot harder to

get the Tactical Advantage.

 

So, my class suffered, from a playstyle, i don't even do (pvp).

... Really? Operative needs to stand still to do DPS? You sure you're not a Sniper?

I'm saying this here and now that I dont play a DPS Op, I have a healer so call me misinformed if you really want to, but playing as a dps Op isn't has hard as you make it out to be. I dont know where you got a 10 second wait for orbital strike, since last I checked it was only 5 seconds, but maybe that was an exageration on your part. If you are standing still while using your attacks, then really you just aren't doing it right. True, some attacks do have a timer on them, but not a lot. Again, I'm a healer so forgive me if I'm forgetting about an ability unique to a skill tree, but the ones I remember dont have a timer. So to be saying that Ops need to stay still to use most of their attacks, I think, is a bit misguided.

 

Also, I'll disagree with you on the TA part as well. We got a buff in that regard, now getting 3 stacks of it instead of only 2. Two of an Ops main attacks grant a TA stack, Hidden Strike (opener) and Shiv. I'll grant you that Hidden Strike might not always be the best way to open a fight for you, but it still remains an option. Also there's always an option of putting a few skill points in your healing tree so that your Kolto Injection will grant you a TA instantly as well, for any time you need to heal yourself or off heal someone. Of those three attacks, only KI makes you stand still.

 

If you're upset that Ops dont offer more long range attacks... well I'm sorry but that's on you. Ops are close range melee attackers, with very few exceptions. Occasionally I can see the advantage of dropping into cover and tossing an Explosive Probe here and there, and maybe a Snipe on occasion, but really you shouldn't be using the long range attacks in your main rotation, with the exception of a Grenade and Overload Shot. Of course, your main Rife Shot is a must when you just need to build up some energy, and that is 30m range. If you want a ranged dps class, roll a Sniper, Mercenary, or Sorcerer.

 

I'm sorry if you dont have fun with your Op with endgame stuff, since I am loving mine to death, but the dps of Ops aren't broken. I'm not saying that the class doesn't have problems, but it's nothing that someone who really knows the class well cant adapt to. Ops take a lot more thought and strategy to do properly than other classes, but they are far from being broken.

This thread is so riddled with errors I suspect the OP is just trolling ...

 

Operative attacks are mostly Knive attacks, which have an even shorter range than

the force users.

False. Operative melee attacks have the same 4m range as Force melee attacks.

 

Most attacks on Operative(the most Damaging ones) require that you not move.

[snip]

You set an orbital strike, which reqs me to be stationary for nearly 10 secs

False. The only cast-time abilities we have are Orbital Strike and Snipe (which you'll almost never use). All others are instant and can be cast on the run, with the 1 exception being Explosive Probe which is also instant but requires cover so takes ~1s to drop, cast and pop up again. Oh, and Orbital Strike has a 3s cast time after which you're free to run around again while it hits.

 

You rush forward, to use knife attacks and you get an aoe attack, from the boss, that healer can't heal you out of, because you are now out of range for,like a circle heal

Your fail for getting hit by AoE ... if it was unavoidable then it's the healers fail for not either placing their puddle better, or being in range to single-target heal you (I play a puddle healer and have healed through all HM Ops - this is not hard).

 

If i'm moving away, even my bombs and default attacks, don't go,unless i'm facing target.

L2Strafe

 

i have only one long range which requires to be undercover, which doesn't work if i get pushed back, and knocked off my feet.

Here is a list of our abilities and their ranges and requirements in the hope that you can learn something today.

4m range:

Hidden Strike (instant, no cover, requires stealth), Backstab (instant, no cover, behind target), Shiv (instant, no cover, generates TA), Laceration (instant, no cover, requires TA)

10m range:

Overload Shot (instant, no cover), Cull (instant, no cover, requires TA), Weakening Blast (instant, no cover), Carbine Burst (instant, no cover, requires TA, 5-target cone AoE)

30m range:

Rifle Shot (instant, no cover), Frag Grenade (instant, no cover), Corrosive Dart (instant, no cover), Corrosive Grenade (instant, no cover), Explosive Probe (instant, cover), Snipe (1.5s cast, cover), Orbital Strike (3s cast, no cover).

 

As you can see - with the exception of Snipe and Orbital Strike, all are instant and can't be interrupted. Of the rest, only Explosive Probe can't be cast on the run, however that is also instant so once you're practiced at crouch+EP'ing it will take you less than 1s to get one off.

 

Tactical Advantage is the proc, and it opens a whole bunch of extra dps. However, it seems to only proc when i hit the target, with certain melee attacks. Carbine burst being the most powerful, funny, they tied a ranged attack to melee.

 

Unless you're spec'd into the Healing tree for more than just the Cunning boost (which you shouldn't be if you're trying to maximise your DPS), the only TA generator you have is Shiv. That is why it's vital to keep it on cooldown at all times. This means TA abilities have an effective cooldown of 6 seconds (linked to Shiv cooldown). Also FYI: Carbine Burst consumes a TA, it does not generate one.

 

However the pvp community got upset at this, and they made it alot harder to

get the Tactical Advantage.

The only changes to TA since launch have been the increase to 3-stacks (talent high in the Med tree - unobtainable for PVE DPS specs), and the duration increase (T2 Med tree talent - should be avoided by PVE DPS specs). Both of these improve TA maintenance.

 

Had i known, the game would have been so anti Operative, at high level content, i would have never rolled an Operative. My fault, for assuming that the game would be balanced for all playstyles.

It sounds like you're expecting the class to fit some playstyle that you had in mind for it, rather than adjusting your playstyle to fit the class.

 

I'd suggest spending a few days going through these forums (and googling for other forums/blogs), learning about your class abilities and how to make them effective. Check your spec against the recommended PVE spec(s). Take a few days off raiding, turn on combat logging, find a good parse site (I like torparse) and hit a target dummy. Analyse your output and compare to others posted on the forums. At the end of all that if you're still not enjoying the playstyle, or you still feel gimped in Operations, it's probably best if you just re-roll. The class is fine, but it's not for all players.

Stuff....

 

As an operative myself - thanks for bringing some sense, normality and truth to the thread ;p

 

But... wheres our gap closer that other classes have ? (sorry thats all I can offer after the rest was negated)

As an operative myself - thanks for bringing some sense, normality and truth to the thread ;p

 

But... wheres our gap closer that other classes have ? (sorry thats all I can offer after the rest was negated)

 

Thanks - it really worries me that some people manage to get all the way to level 50 with such a poor understanding of the class.

 

On the gap closer - I would also love one, but I don't really think it's required anymore. We are able to do a lot more damage at range than the other melee dps classes, and there really aren't that many mechanics that force us far enough off-target that we lose significant time on target running back in. For PVP it would be particularly awesome (specially if it worked on the z axis), but smart positioning and good use of your lock-down abilities means you only notice the lack against above average opponents.

Concealment is useless, lethality however is viable.

Concealment is useless, lethality however is viable.

 

You could have posted the lyrics to a Justin Bieber song and they would have been about as useful as this statement. If you're going to make these claims, the least you could do is back them up with facts.

How exactly is your melee class different from others again? And exactly why do the operatives deserve a buff to get closer to the boss when other melee classes do not??? I'm confused.

 

Operatives are the only melee class that doesn't get a gap closer.

How exactly is your melee class different from others again? And exactly why do the operatives deserve a buff to get closer to the boss when other melee classes do not??? I'm confused.

 

Other melee classes have a gap closer. So when a marauder, for example get's knocked back they have to trot their happy asses back to the boss.

Other melee classes have a gap closer. So when a marauder, for example get's knocked back they have to trot their happy asses back to the boss.

 

And Mercs don't have an interrupt, Marauders don't have a true stun, tons of classes don't have a cleanse, Mercs don't have a speed increase, and only assassins and Ops have stealth. Just because other classes have it, doesn't mean every class should.

 

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be friggen fantastic, because it would. I'm just saying that "but they have it" isn't a good argument. Warriors and Assassins have gap closers, but they also have no ranged abilities beyond 10m that can maintain damage for the duration of the distance closer. We're not down and out if we're knocked back or have to close the distance, we just need to use our other abilities.

only assassins and Ops have stealth. Just because other classes have it, doesn't mean every class should.

 

I like to use your logic on marauders having the best in combat stealth. Wait does that mean I am in the wrong thread since marauders can jump to the target from a mile away and start dpsing right away while we stealth in all slow and sneaky like

I like to use your logic on marauders having the best in combat stealth. Wait does that mean I am in the wrong thread since marauders can jump to the target from a mile away and start dpsing right away while we stealth in all slow and sneaky like

 

Marauder stealth is awesome, but hardly the best in combat stealth ... it is only 4s and doesn't break combat - no stealthing behind a wall and healing up for them!

Operatives are the only melee class that doesn't get a gap closer.

 

id trade a gap closer for stealth. maybe.

Edited June 23, 2012 by HollowVamp

And Mercs don't have an interrupt, Marauders don't have a true stun, tons of classes don't have a cleanse, Mercs don't have a speed increase, and only assassins and Ops have stealth. Just because other classes have it, doesn't mean every class should.

 

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be friggen fantastic, because it would. I'm just saying that "but they have it" isn't a good argument. Warriors and Assassins have gap closers, but they also have no ranged abilities beyond 10m that can maintain damage for the duration of the distance closer. We're not down and out if we're knocked back or have to close the distance, we just need to use our other abilities.

 

What, pray tell, are concealment operatives supposed to cast when they are knocked back? Spam overload shot, which does rather insignificant damage for the energy cost--which will inevitably screw up your rotation once you get back to the target unless you have energy probe up?

 

Lethality doesn't need a gap closer. Concealment does.

 

And lethality needs a way less complicated rotation/better energy management.

 

Both specs need a significant damage increase.

 

 

This class has issues that need addressed all across the board.

You mean concealment is useless, lethality can hold its own.

id trade a gap closer for stealth. maybe.

 

Stealth isn't a good gap closer, assassin can also stealth but THEIR gap closer is force speed.

You mean concealment is useless, lethality can hold its own.

 

You could have posted the lyrics to a Justin Bieber song and they would have been about as useful as this statement. If you're going to make these claims, the least you could do is back them up with facts.

 

Concealment consistently parses and sim's above Lethality. I'll ask again for your justification.

Concealment isnt good in long battles, which is what happens in pve, lethality has sustained damage, so unless u like to be oomph all the time, lethality is really the only viable option for pve, unless there is a hybrid spec that im unaware of but u would still need lethality, 31 points in concealment = oomph,

Marauder stealth is awesome, but hardly the best in combat stealth ... it is only 4s and doesn't break combat - no stealthing behind a wall and healing up for them!

 

No but they can stealth much more reliably and not get knocked out of it (in fact can marauder stealth even be broken early at all? I know it reduces aoe damage taken at any rate.)

In any case it's a much more reliable escape button with its 30% sprint, vanish actually slowing you down 15% you recall. ( Even with sprint factored in marauders still get faster)

Add to that theirs doesn't slap a 100% healing done and received debuff on them. So any healer can easily top them off without fear of them dying mid cast.

 

It's also a much shorter cooldown to my knowledge. ( EDIT: Yup 45 seconds versus 180)

 

Marauder stealth blows vanish out of the water.

Edited June 23, 2012 by CaptainApop

Concealment isnt good in long battles, which is what happens in pve, lethality has sustained damage, so unless u like to be oomph all the time, lethality is really the only viable option for pve, unless there is a hybrid spec that im unaware of but u would still need lethality, 31 points in concealment = oomph,

 

You are talking about L2P issues ... I never run out of energy outside of controlled burst phases where Adrenaline Probe is off cooldown.

 

Lethality energy management is much more spikey and difficult to manage than Concealment, which is probably one of the reasons they consistently parse behind Concealment. That and the fact that many Lethality Operatives like to pretend it's not a melee spec with the same positional requirements as Concealment.

No but they can stealth much more reliably and not get knocked out of it (in fact can marauder stealth even be broken early at all? I know it reduces aoe damage taken at any rate.)

In any case it's a much more reliable escape button with its 30% sprint, vanish actually slowing you down 15% you recall. ( Even with sprint factored in marauders still get faster)

Add to that theirs doesn't slap a 100% healing done and received debuff on them. So any healer can easily top them off without fear of them dying mid cast.

 

It's also a much shorter cooldown to my knowledge. ( EDIT: Yup 45 seconds versus 180)

 

Marauder stealth blows vanish out of the water.

 

According to my Marauder friend, it can be broken early - but with DoT's only ticking once every 3s you might never notice the difference.

 

Concealment Operatives (who arguably need Vanish the most since it is a damage and defensive cooldown for them) don't have a healing debuff, can vanish every 120s, and get a 50% movement speed boost.