So umm... I told you so. When 6.0 came and i played it i noticed how bad the pvp felt. I was very active on the forums, while ppl were crying about assassins 3-tapping them, I was talking about how bad the TTK was and how damage was too low. And then boom assassin nerfed and SWTOR pvp became a pea and noodle fight. Not to mention the insane amount of cc and BS classes have these days.

This post will be all over the place as i have much to talk about and i couldn't until now due to no subscription.

I was away for about 5 months and so here are my thoughts.

So not only the damage itself is super low but classes have so many abilities to evade death its actually insane. It's like the devs are afraid of ppl actually dying. It's to the point where i am looking at kills and not damage at the end of pvp to see who did the best. Easy to dps, hard to actually finish someone off.

Ranked is an interesting beast. 4v4 arena ranked sounds good at first but its an absolute mess. Class stacking, overall class imbalance, idiots and the cherry on top wintraders.

Let me rip into every class in the game now.

First off the biggest issue in swtor's pvp that i have ever seen in all the years i have played this game - Operative. Their abbreviation of OP is pretty accurate. They have the tools to outplay any class and survive basically anything short of 3 ppl and a merc. A good op can solo carry regs and is a pain in the *** to deal with in ranked due to high burst.And please someone explain me *** is that sustain.

Time for snipers. Although i hear marksman is ***** the other spec sure isn't. I remember when i played watchman sent fighting a sniper and this dude was not dying. He took no damage whatsoever. Sure i had bad amps, but i had very good gear for the time. I won't even get into the cc and ******** they can pull.Ah yes and they have a Phase Walk type of ability. Please save me god.

Now for the juggernaut. Honestly that class is pretty balanced if not a little under, aside from a few things like guard(which shouldn't exist on a dps class anyways). I hear they can abuse a tactical that makes ED have basically no cooldown which is pretty busted not gonna lie. Skanks needs to go to hell.

Marauder, my favorite class. I can talk a lot about it but i feel that aside from the camo reset the class is in a pretty balanced state. Lack damage but everything aside from PT does. They fixed Throwing arm working on dual saber throw i assume? Carnage is still *** though.

Sith Sorcerer. The class is weird. I can't play it for **** but i have seen some ppl make it look like god tier in pvp. I assume that's a good thing. Bubble is annoying but can be played around. The cc on it is absolutely insane. You mean to tell me every time i pop his shield i get CCed for 6s. Noice. Damage on this class i would say is fine. Phase Walk is cancer in every way i could think of.

Sith Assassin. Here comes the good old pls nerf meme.They did. The class never needed more damage, although most need that these days. That being said the utility gained from the ability to SWAP TACTICALS midfight with combat stealth is insane. Hope they fixed that. I haven't checked if they did.

Now for the disaster called Mercenary. I don't know what they were smoking while giving that class so many tools. I am pretty sure that class doesn't lose 1v1 to anything even if played sub-par(excluding operative). I don't know what to say even. Broken in ranked, annoying at best, cancerous at worst in regs. Bioware keeps proving they can't balance classes even close to properly and Merc is a prime example.

Now at the end we have PT. It used to be the worst class in the game for a long time. Good damage but no defense, it just crumbled under any kind of focus. Unless the player was super good at it, it was free win in ranked. Nowdays their lack of defense doesn't even matter. They HURT. The burst from that class is insane however, unlike most other ppl that call for nerfs i call for almost every other class to have close to that amount of damage especially burst specs.

We need to have more punishing pvp.

Enough with the handholding. Enough with the 15 different defensive cooldowns on 1 class. Enough with the peas and noodles. When one messes up and leaves themselves open to get absolutely demolished by the enemy team he needs to die. Not pop 2 cooldowns and lose barely 25% hp or just port 120 meters away to safety. Then proceed to remark the place and back to pointless dps.

We need those 3 things:

1: Stronger anti-heal debuff.

2: Higher overall damage scaling.

3: Change and remove some utilities to reduce the safety of the classes.

Why do i even bother though, these aren't new things. And Bioware hasn't done sh*t

We need those 3 things:

1: Stronger anti-heal debuff.

2: Higher overall damage scaling.

3: Change and remove some utilities to reduce the safety of the classes.

 

Why do i even bother though, these aren't new things. And Bioware hasn't done sh*t

PVP is worse and worse every patch since 3.0 perhaps bit later than that.

Classes need to have much less utility like it was in 1.x area when PVP was fun. (speed buffs, teleports, cc's snares. self healing... each class is so overtuned with those).

Honestly a lot of utility tacked onto defensive skills and the amount of self healing and root/rootbreakers/speed boosts in the game need to be purged. Fix all that and you don't need to change any of the damage because TTK will naturally go down. There's just too much self sustainability added to the game in a vain attempt to make classes viable in solo ranked which is a joke.

And yes scoundrals are OP as all get out and need to be nerfed into the ground. Their HoTs need to go back to being healer only and the roll needs to be removed from the game. Give them back shoot first and make them an actual burst class again, not this ridiculous rolly polly that you can never kill.

Honestly a lot of utility tacked onto defensive skills and the amount of self healing and root/rootbreakers/speed boosts in the game need to be purged. Fix all that and you don't need to change any of the damage because TTK will naturally go down. There's just too much self sustainability added to the game in a vain attempt to make classes viable in solo ranked which is a joke.

 

And yes scoundrals are OP as all get out and need to be nerfed into the ground. Their HoTs need to go back to being healer only and the roll needs to be removed from the game. Give them back shoot first and make them an actual burst class again, not this ridiculous rolly polly that you can never kill.

+100!

You have my vote!

roll needs to be removed from the game.

Stop with the 'remove roll'. The concealment version (1 spec out of 3) that gives 100% immunity is what the problem is. You remove roll and you mess up every operative spec since they need the roll for mobilty.

Actually, go ahead and take roll away. At the same time take away force leap, force speed, rocket out, and predation. That would be nice and fair.

Anyone asking for the removal of concealment roll is also asking for a complete rework of the spec. Without roll, two stuns and a mediocre amount of focus will kill any Op.

I mean sh**, even with god roll, two stuns and some dps will kill an Op if their breaker is down. People just don't know how to kill things.

But yeah, Lethality is 100% over tuned. I think all/most specs using the Periodic Intensity amps are. I have little idea what I'm doing on lethality, incorrectly spamming their slow dot over n over like a noob lol. And I still put out 15k dps on accident. It's insane. And it's easy af to play. I've played concealment for years now, and even being a novice at lethality, there's still no reason for me to play conceal - besides for duels.

Stop with the 'remove roll'. The concealment version (1 spec out of 3) that gives 100% immunity is what the problem is. You remove roll and you mess up every operative spec since they need the roll for mobilty.

 

Actually, go ahead and take roll away. At the same time take away force leap, force speed, rocket out, and predation. That would be nice and fair.

Okay then make roll a 30s cooldown. In its current state its too op being able to toll twice every like 12s.

Honestly a lot of utility tacked onto defensive skills and the amount of self healing and root/rootbreakers/speed boosts in the game need to be purged. Fix all that and you don't need to change any of the damage because TTK will naturally go down. There's just too much self sustainability added to the game in a vain attempt to make classes viable in solo ranked which is a joke.

 

And yes scoundrals are OP as all get out and need to be nerfed into the ground. Their HoTs need to go back to being healer only and the roll needs to be removed from the game. Give them back shoot first and make them an actual burst class again, not this ridiculous rolly polly that you can never kill.

That is correct however you cant expect Bioware to completely remove parts of the kit of some classes. Ppl are gonna riot as it changes PVE. A combination of changing utilities and increasing damage as a whole will deal with the problem, without touching PVE too much as i think in terms of PVE the game is pretty well balanced.

Anyone asking for the removal of concealment roll is also asking for a complete rework of the spec. Without roll, two stuns and a mediocre amount of focus will kill any Op.

 

I mean sh**, even with god roll, two stuns and some dps will kill an Op if their breaker is down. People just don't know how to kill things.

 

But yeah, Lethality is 100% over tuned. I think all/most specs using the Periodic Intensity amps are. I have little idea what I'm doing on lethality, incorrectly spamming their slow dot over n over like a noob lol. And I still put out 15k dps on accident. It's insane. And it's easy af to play. I've played concealment for years now, and even being a novice at lethality, there's still no reason for me to play conceal - besides for duels.

Ah yes the good old get good if u wanna kill op. To kill an operative you need a lot of team coordination which is basically nonexistent in 90% of pvp matches. And yes a rework is a perfectly fine alternative but i think just flat out nerfing roll to a 25s cooldown with 2 charges is a perfect fix.

Ah yes the good old get good if u wanna kill op. To kill an operative you need a lot of team coordination which is basically nonexistent in 90% of pvp matches. And yes a rework is a perfectly fine alternative but i think just flat out nerfing roll to a 25s cooldown with 2 charges is a perfect fix.

Rework? Do you really think that has even a potential to happen?

Nerfing roll to 25-30s would make Ops the number 1 focus target in any match. You must have not played one too much, bc what you're suggesting would be like saying remove guardians focused defense. You just can't do it without adding something else to their defensives.

The fact of the matter is, most people don't understand how roll mitigates dmg. You need to make sure you're not firing off your best offense into their roll (1.5s cd that continues slightly after the roll visually completes). Good Ops aim to roll thru your offenses. So you just need to hit them in between and stun often. You don't need an entire team - just 2 nonderps will do it.

But listen, I agree. Ops could generally be described as OP. Im ok with that. But concealment is not. They're DPS is overwhleming on a ST, but manageable. They can play OBJs with the best, but that's about it. Oh and its great for duels. Lethality is insanely overtuned. Now their roll is not near as good. So they can be globalled pretty easily, but Im all for their nerf of offense. Much needed.

Stop with the 'remove roll'. The concealment version (1 spec out of 3) that gives 100% immunity is what the problem is. You remove roll and you mess up every operative spec since they need the roll for mobilty.

 

Actually, go ahead and take roll away. At the same time take away force leap, force speed, rocket out, and predation. That would be nice and fair.

Any kind of immunity/damage reduction while rolloing, force speeding blade blitzing should be removed.

Keep roll fine but have the cooldown in line with others.

Force leap and force speed should stay.

Remove nonsense like Blade blitz, phanton stride, storm, sniper teleport, self healing, speed buffs, roots immunity, cc immunity etc.

Unless you are having 2 AP PT on OP good luck in killing one with current state of the game.

As we all know pvp won't change.

RIP the good old days. Deal with it!

Rework? Do you really think that has even a potential to happen?

 

Nerfing roll to 25-30s would make Ops the number 1 focus target in any match. You must have not played one too much, bc what you're suggesting would be like saying remove guardians focused defense. You just can't do it without adding something else to their defensives.

 

The fact of the matter is, most people don't understand how roll mitigates dmg. You need to make sure you're not firing off your best offense into their roll (1.5s cd that continues slightly after the roll visually completes). Good Ops aim to roll thru your offenses. So you just need to hit them in between and stun often. You don't need an entire team - just 2 nonderps will do it.

 

But listen, I agree. Ops could generally be described as OP. Im ok with that. But concealment is not. They're DPS is overwhleming on a ST, but manageable. They can play OBJs with the best, but that's about it. Oh and its great for duels. Lethality is insanely overtuned. Now their roll is not near as good. So they can be globalled pretty easily, but Im all for their nerf of offense. Much needed.

You dont understand me. A roll on a 12 second cooldown is a concept so broken for this game its unreal. Regardless if you play lethality or concealment. Something needs to be done about it we cant have that in the game. Its Bioware's fault that they made a class that relies on a concept so innately broken it breaks everything around it. At least if the cooldown is at 12s they need to sacrifice something for it. Like healing or burst or sustain damage or other defenses. You just cant have that in this game. The engine itself doesn't accept it.

Stop with the 'remove roll'. The concealment version (1 spec out of 3) that gives 100% immunity is what the problem is. You remove roll and you mess up every operative spec since they need the roll for mobilty.

 

Actually, go ahead and take roll away. At the same time take away force leap, force speed, rocket out, and predation. That would be nice and fair.

Your comment on leap is stupid. Juggs/Mara are not stealthers. Scoundrals will still have holotraverse they don't need roll. They were fine and way more fun to play before they got changed into the current design of rolling around with hots on them. I'd much rather deal with and play with the old shoot first knockdown setup than this stupid roll mechanic.

Predation just needs to go back to requiring stacks of fury to use again or the CD utility being the player only and not the whole team.

Force speed is fine. Just needs to be on a bit longer of a CD.

Rocket out I agree should go and same with roll on sniper.

Honestly all the classes need less mobility and the game needs less roots/slows flying around. I remember the days when stuff like hydraulic override was unique to AP (back when AP was AP and pyro was the burst spec.) Certain things were unique to certain specs. All specs getting access to all these utilities makes the game a damn joke.

Anyone asking for the removal of concealment roll is also asking for a complete rework of the spec. Without roll, two stuns and a mediocre amount of focus will kill any Op.

 

THATS THE POINT.

All this utility bloat needs to go. Classes need to start dying in pvp. Old school scoundral would pop out, kill you and go back into stealth. If they got caught and played poorly they died. That's how it should be with all classes. Less self sustainability and more pvp going on. Most pvp now a days are friggan parsing matches.

Any kind of immunity/damage reduction while rolloing, force speeding blade blitzing should be removed.

 

Keep roll fine but have the cooldown in line with others.

 

Force leap and force speed should stay.

 

Remove nonsense like Blade blitz, phanton stride, storm, sniper teleport, self healing, speed buffs, roots immunity, cc immunity etc.

 

Unless you are having 2 AP PT on OP good luck in killing one with current state of the game.

 

As we all know pvp won't change.

 

RIP the good old days. Deal with it!

Da*** is your problem with blade blitz. Its a perfectly balanced ability.

Da*** is your problem with blade blitz. Its a perfectly balanced ability.

Mobility, defence up, purge effect utility (when speced) same probelm as with OP roll.

Note that I would remove similari abilities for every class not only knights/worriors.

If you do not see the problem of ppl flying like F16 thorugh wz then grttz to you. I do.

THATS THE POINT.

 

All this utility bloat needs to go. Classes need to start dying in pvp. Old school scoundral would pop out, kill you and go back into stealth. If they got caught and played poorly they died. That's how it should be with all classes. Less self sustainability and more pvp going on. Most pvp now a days are friggan parsing matches.

Let me rephrase then: If you remove roll, you have to rework the entire spec which is something BW would never do, so stop wasting finger motions.

If you have a realistic remedy, offer it up. But saying "remove roll" instead of "rework the entire spec" is simplifying the problem and misinforming some of the population.

If you have trouble killing things in WZs, speak for yourself. Most people don't understand how to kill things in the guarded merc healer meta. Merc healers should be easier to kill, yes. And anyone queuing as a full mit tank is just memeing. That said, you can kill things if you're not bad.

Mobility, defence up, purge effect utility (when speced) same probelm as with OP roll.

 

Note that I would remove similari abilities for every class not only knights/worriors.

 

If you do not see the problem of ppl flying like F16 thorugh wz then grttz to you. I do.

Blade blitz is on a 45s CD so I'm whatever about it. I feel the same about force speed, though I think the CD could be a bit longer. My problem with roll is its on a 12s CD with 2 charges. Topple that with them having HoTs and its just dumb.

Let me rephrase then: If you remove roll, you have to rework the entire spec which is something BW would never do, so stop wasting finger motions.

 

If you have a realistic remedy, offer it up. But saying "remove roll" instead of "rework the entire spec" is simplifying the problem and misinforming some of the population.

 

If you have trouble killing things in WZs, speak for yourself. Most people don't understand how to kill things in the guarded merc healer meta. Merc healers should be easier to kill, yes. And anyone queuing as a full mit tank is just memeing. That said, you can kill things if you're not bad.

Don't have to rework squat. They did fine prior to 2.0 without roll and having HoTs on the DPS specs and they'd do fine now. Roll is completely unecessary and its literally what makes them broken. Heck scrapper can go back to being how they were in 1.2. At least back then they were actually fun to play.

Mobility, defence up, purge effect utility (when speced) same probelm as with OP roll.

 

Note that I would remove similari abilities for every class not only knights/worriors.

 

If you do not see the problem of ppl flying like F16 thorugh wz then grttz to you. I do.

The skill has a fairly long colldown and is great at expressing skill. You cannot find 1 mara to spec the purge unless in a very specific situation. You get to use it once or twice per fight. True it does have some desync issues but mobility in general isnt a bad thing in the game. Its just OP that has that issue of too much mobility. Also its not like concealment roll. It doesn't protect you from all damage. Predation and camo reset are far bigger issues for mara and you mean to tell me that jugg doesnt deserve a reliable defensive cooldown? Blitz is fine. Mobility as a whole is fine. Just operative has far too much of it.

Don't have to rework squat. They did fine prior to 2.0 without roll and having HoTs on the DPS specs and they'd do fine now. Roll is completely unecessary and its literally what makes them broken. Heck scrapper can go back to being how they were in 1.2. At least back then they were actually fun to play.

Are you really suggesting that Ops could be "rolled back" to 1.2/2.0 while every other class stays the same... and be just fine?

Let's just say I disagree.

The skill has a fairly long colldown and is great at expressing skill. You cannot find 1 mara to spec the purge unless in a very specific situation. You get to use it once or twice per fight. True it does have some desync issues but mobility in general isnt a bad thing in the game. Its just OP that has that issue of too much mobility. Also its not like concealment roll. It doesn't protect you from all damage. Predation and camo reset are far bigger issues for mara and you mean to tell me that jugg doesnt deserve a reliable defensive cooldown? Blitz is fine. Mobility as a whole is fine. Just operative has far too much of it.

I have to disagree a lot here,

mobility is not fine it is far too much for every class.

It was fine 1.x area.

By any means I have no problems with sents, it just that ridiculous all classes have everything meta and are the same. They used to be so different one from each other with different strengths and weaknesses until they lowered the skill level and dumped everything down to be the same and called it balance work.

BW decided to go that direction and there is no way they will go back so we can keep on dreaming for changes.

Well at least starfighter is fun pvp still xd

Are you really suggesting that Ops could be "rolled back" to 1.2/2.0 while every other class stays the same... and be just fine?

 

Let's just say I disagree.

No, if I had my way I'd purge a lot of stuff from other classes too and make the game overall play more like the 1.1.5-1.2 timeline while tweaking other things (like making bubble stun lighting spec only again for example, and removing things like being able to run while casting)

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree, but I think Raansu's point is across all classes and disciplines. Hes not going after juggs/mara/ops/snipers/sins/sorcs individually but all of them - i.e. survivability bloat over time as each spec has been balanced against the others.

I didn't PvP back pre 2.0 (started the mmo part of the game around 3.0 era), so I can't really speak for what PvP was like before all the extras were added (though I admit... i would miss blade blitz haha).

I also notice the 2 classes I havent seen mentioned much are PT/merc. Is that the level of mobility/survivability we're looking for? PT is basically a squishy glass cannon but boy do they put out the damage. Mercs I don't play like ever, but since 5.0 their defensives have been good.