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PvP Tank 5.10


Mordarion's Avatar


Mordarion
12.04.2018 , 08:48 AM | #1
Greetings folks ,

I am very excited about Jedi Under Seige!!

I am really curious how we will gear in PvP with the new content. I was thinking some of you are ahead of me in theory crafting and was hoping some of you would share your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!
<Rapid Serenity>... on Darth Malgus

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
12.04.2018 , 12:02 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Mordarion View Post
Greetings folks ,

I am very excited about Jedi Under Seige!!

I am really curious how we will gear in PvP with the new content. I was thinking some of you are ahead of me in theory crafting and was hoping some of you would share your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!
You are opening a can of worms here, my friend.

The new gearing system discussions are all over the place. In short, the only way to get the new gear via PvP is absurd amounts of UC. Depending on the ossus missions and the significance of the new gear I may or may not be bothered, frankly.

For my tanks theres no point trying, as I would need the crated versions of mods and enhancements that will probably (someone on pts avaliable to clarify?) Require the mat that only drops in MM gods.

And then the question becomes: do i dps enough to care about BIS gear? I have next to no desire to participate in another futless attempt to bring back players while not fixing the issues that chased them off in the first place.

TLDR: hope you didn't assume you could use your UCs to gear alts rather than stockpiling.

mrphstar's Avatar


mrphstar
12.04.2018 , 12:12 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
You are opening a can of worms here, my friend.

The new gearing system discussions are all over the place. In short, the only way to get the new gear via PvP is absurd amounts of UC. Depending on the ossus missions and the significance of the new gear I may or may not be bothered, frankly.

For my tanks theres no point trying, as I would need the crated versions of mods and enhancements that will probably (someone on pts avaliable to clarify?) Require the mat that only drops in MM gods.

And then the question becomes: do i dps enough to care about BIS gear? I have next to no desire to participate in another futless attempt to bring back players while not fixing the issues that chased them off in the first place.

TLDR: hope you didn't assume you could use your UCs to gear alts rather than stockpiling.
what he was asking about, were stats distritbution and therefor amount of enhancements of each type etc. (indicated by the theorycrafting question).

but yeah, we can make this thread to another cry orgy ofc. maybe BW will listen again and "fix" it again, making it even worse for everybody....again.

@OP: before you dont recognize your own thread anymore and wont get any reasonable answers:
look at this spread sheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1340830784

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
12.04.2018 , 04:04 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by mrphstar View Post
what he was asking about, were stats distritbution and therefor amount of enhancements of each type etc. (indicated by the theorycrafting question).

but yeah, we can make this thread to another cry orgy ofc. maybe BW will listen again and "fix" it again, making it even worse for everybody....again.

@OP: before you dont recognize your own thread anymore and wont get any reasonable answers:
look at this spread sheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1340830784
I seriously doubt a whole lot is changing in that department. You might can get away with 1 enhancement less to reach the high alacrity cap, thus allowing for one additional crit enhancement, but i doubt this difference is game breaking.

Even more reasons the gear is just dumb. You are either part of a raid team that is interested in and could do MM gods in current gear, or you're not interested or likely to attempt it. I seriously doubt the extra 5% total stat pool is that huge

Mordarion's Avatar


Mordarion
12.05.2018 , 02:48 AM | #5
Greetings,

Thank you very much for the spreadsheet!!

Very interesting info and I understand there are issues in getting the gear. Those are all valid issues and for now I do not have a comment.

My focus was for tanks in PvP, will that Defense, Absorb, and Shield, actually work as intended? Will that actually be optimal gearing for PvP? If that is the case then let's discuss the gearing issue. I just have my doubts PvP will work as intended. Again thank you for all the help and info !!
<Rapid Serenity>... on Darth Malgus

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
12.05.2018 , 06:10 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Mordarion View Post
Greetings,

My focus was for tanks in PvP, will that Defense, Absorb, and Shield, actually work as intended? Will that actually be optimal gearing for PvP? If that is the case then let's discuss the gearing issue. I just have my doubts PvP will work as intended. Again thank you for all the help and info !!
Kind of, defense is as next to useless as it ever was in pvp (and well over needed levels in pve already) so stacking more defense in any case is pointless.

Crits can be shielded now, the usefulness of which can be debatable. Its more useful that it used to be, at any rate, but for game modes like ranked/4v4 killing stuff fast is far more important that mere survival.

Just like it is now, most pvp tanks will still run skanks, and just like now the gearing question for dps will be high or low alacrity.

We can debate the precise nimbers of enhancements/augs but very little is substantially changing since you cannot reach the next alacrity cutoff point. The number of alacrity enhancements you use may change allowing for more crit, but the number isn't increasing by any mind boggling number.

Tanking wise, its even more just like it is now, because tanking is much less quantitative. Dtps is a practically meaningless value to minimize as most of thr time, you don't die to dtps, you die to an unanticipated spike.

Mordarion's Avatar


Mordarion
12.05.2018 , 06:49 AM | #7
Thank you!

Now this is getting to what i am really after. I want to understand how the different stats work in PvP, not the ideal PVE numbers, but I want the ideal PvP numbers.

So looking at the spreadsheet what numbers do i really want for PvP?

Here is what is listed...
Mastery- 6848
Power- 2822
Defense- 2078
Absorb- 1771
Shield- 2145

This with 3 Shield Enhancements and 7 Absorb Enhancements.

So that is the question, how do i really want to gear in 5.10 PvP for Immortal Jugg or Defense Guardian?

Also what about...
Crit- ????
Alacrity- ????

What should those numbers be ?

And thank you again... /bow.
<Rapid Serenity>... on Darth Malgus

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
12.05.2018 , 07:57 AM | #8
Pvp tanks before these changes were tanky enough already thatís why they switched to wearing, in most cases, pure dps gear to allow them to have more impact within the match. Shield crit changes in my opinion, did nothing to change tank meta in pvp or justify changing your gear to defensive stats. Why drop a crap load of damage for a small gain in survivabllity when you didnít even need it to begin with?

There is probably situations where this gear can be useful but for majority of the time dropping damage for survivability is going to nerf your impact within pvp matches. Itís not optimal.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
12.05.2018 , 08:00 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Mordarion View Post
Thank you!

So looking at the spreadsheet what numbers do i really want for PvP?

Here is what is listed...
Mastery- 6848
Power- 2822
Defense- 2078
Absorb- 1771
Shield- 2145

This with 3 Shield Enhancements and 7 Absorb Enhancements.

So that is the question, how do i really want to gear in 5.10 PvP for Immortal Jugg or Defense Guardian?

Also what about...
Crit- ????
Alacrity- ????

What should those numbers be ?

And thank you again... /bow.
Again, if you were pvp tanking now and whatever you're currently doing works for you, there is little point shaking it up. The new gear is, frankly, not that important (especially for tanks, for whom using "optimal" gear is already not in fsct optimal).

Your defense rating number looks about like mine, around 2k. I personally bring shield and absorb a bit closer together, but if that works for you it's whatever. Like i said earlier, most of the theory crafters optimize tanks around minimizing dtps, which is pretty meaningless.

For pvp in specific, exact tank stat numbers are even more pointless as (as i mentioned earlier) defense rating is still useless in pvp and the meaningfulness of shielded crits is debatable (i run my tank set now, for non-4v4, but i keep my dps and skank sets around too).

For dps, again, the determining factor is if you want to low (7-whatever it is) alacrity value (for the 1.4s GCD) or the 18-whatever alacrity value (for the 1.3s GCD). Because the 1.2s GCD will still be unattainable with the new gear, this is not changing substantially. Drop one alacrity enhancement for a crit one and make sure you're still over the cap for your alacrity tier (7-whatever or 18-whatever).

The theory crafting is basically not changing.

Mordarion's Avatar


Mordarion
12.05.2018 , 08:20 AM | #10
KendraP thanks again!!

Here are my current 5.9.3 numbers just for comparison sakes. All gear 248 and Augments 236...
Mastery- 8063
End- 9443
Power 4307
Crit- 1749
Alacrity- 791
Def- 99
Absorb- 0
Shield- 0

Are we really saying keep Def, Shield, and Absorb all this low for 5.10 PvP?
<Rapid Serenity>... on Darth Malgus