The problem is, you thinking that if this is P2W, why didnt you point that out when the shop first came out? You can buy all sorts of items and sell them for credits in-game and use those to buy better gear. Why didnt you say it was P2W then? What is different about these ship parts? They do not offer you a bigger advantage than those intermediate gear sets do.

 

This makes me think you are just trying to hate. Your analysis is convenient and not accurate.

Uhhh, if you read my post, I highlight the start of P2W imo (before the thing even launched). And how do you know what I have said? Are you just making a random post and hoping you managed to make a point? Well...good for you, I guess. You failed but whatever.

I've watched a number of games transition to f2p and it's usually a slow push to p2w, slowly eroding the players perception of what's acceptable. EA is special though, they set the bar right from the gate. With the UI unlocks, crystals and the rest, that we have these new ship parts isn't a big suprise. What's next? Raid gear, stat boosters and seperate timered consumables. I know what you are saying..."NO way they ever add that" but mark my words, you'll see it soon. It's the same way in every f2p game, EA is just greedier and faster.

You are completely overstating things. The rewards you get from the space mini-game are not worth anything without effort by aquiring them, leveling up crafting, getting recipes and getting other needed mats. There is no P2W here, you're just beeing dense.

PW2 = you pay money and you get the best gear in the game. This is NOT it. You still have to put in alot of effort to get the gear from this stage. Actually its alot easier to just buy it from the GTN or just running some raids or some warzones for it. It certainly isnt the easiest way to go around it. All this does is give people who like the space missions a tangeable reward to make it worthwhile.

I honestly do not get your argument. You are saying it is not P2W because, responding to whom you queoted, the rewards for doing space missions are minimal ( so no pay towards gearing your charecter)

BUT you say P2W = pay to get the best gear in game... well you are paying to get the best gear for the Space Missions, it is a minigame but it is part of the game and has its own progression.

You are completely overstating things. The rewards you get from the space mini-game are not worth anything without effort by aquiring them, leveling up crafting, getting recipes and getting other needed mats. There is no P2W here, you're just beeing dense.

PW2 = you pay money and you get the best gear in the game. This is NOT it. You still have to put in alot of effort to get the gear from this stage. Actually its alot easier to just buy it from the GTN or just running some raids or some warzones for it. It certainly isnt the easiest way to go around it. All this does is give people who like the space missions a tangeable reward to make it worthwhile.

First off, the bolded statement. No, that's not what Pay 2 Win means. Paying money doesn't mean you get the best gear. Paying money to give yourself an advantage in gameplay mechanics... that's pay to win... point blank.

Follow with me. Does this system allow you to buy something in the game with real cash that gives you an advantage in gameplay mechanics? If yes, then it's pay to win. Doesn't matter if it's for a small part of the game, doesn't matter if that isn't the end-all-be-all for all your gear. Doesn't matter that you can't get all gear simply by paying. The fact remains there's a way to buy something with real cash to give you an advantage in this game that someone who doesn't spend that cash can't obtain just as quickly.

No they are attainable in game, but it takes a lot of work to get them. Or you could just buy the pack containing everything you need instantly for real money.

Perfect

I was a previous subscriber and i subscribe now as well. I honestly do not see the difference in my gaming experience. It is just as good now, and at just the same pace. It seems to me that it is more or less just people more worried about other people and their playstyle than their own.

 

A grind is a grind is a grind. I am surprised heroic level space gear isnt even longer of a grind, but i would surmise that its because of the admittedly limited number of missions available in space. I dont know. You are free to believe whatever you like, of course. But I just dont see why people cannot just enjoy the experience this game has to offer and stop nitpicking everything.

Whether you see it or not is irrelevent, it is there.

Its jealousy and epeen, 100%. Earning the comms from the space missions helps people gear up for HMs and Ops. Its to everyone's benefit that more people equip endgame gear, but pettiness blinds people.

He was saying it doesn't help, you are saying it does help but it doesn't matter because everyone is Borg....... and yet you think you agree with each other.

You can earn things outside of the "space mini-game" with the "space mini-game", it is P2W.

It's not P2W. You are equivocating so badly on the P2W idea that you have blurred the meaning of the concept entirely.

To get them they can P2W to avoid the upgrade grind, thereby circumventing much of the process through paying cash - this is textbook P2W.

Wrong. What you have described is textbook Pay-For-Convenience.

However, it seems the general direction of the game is going P2W, and it looks like selling high lvl starship upgrades is the first step to this-which unfortunately confirms my suspicions.

The starship upgrades are not P2W. You can rest your worried head now.

That is P2W. It's creating an advantage in gameplay mechanics that goes beyond cosmetics.

Wrong. P2W is something only available in the store that gives a player an unfair advantage over another player which cannot be acquired through normal gameplay.

Nothing you have listed as an item, example or argument fits the definition of Pay to Win. You are objecting to the Convenience aspect of the store in which some players choose to participate.

You don't even understand what you are arguing against. lulz

ANY item that can be purchased to give the player an advantage for in-game content is a P2W item.

That is not P2W. See the definition above and try again.

Heh. People with bigger wallets can buy more. Yeah that makes no sense whatsoever. No parallel to reality there.

Sorry, but that ruins the fairness of the game. You seems to be missing the point... completely.

He was saying it doesn't help, you are saying it does help but it doesn't matter because everyone is Borg....... and yet you think you agree with each other.

He is saying it doesn't help without additional effort, which is true, and I am saying it helps the community at large if more people are geared up for endgame content. I don't see those as being incompatible.

They are making grinds longer than they would be butfor the cash shop. That is the problem.

Exactly right. Same reason the HK unlock is 1 mil credits, to drive people towards the CC option.

Printing solutions is one thing, manufacturing problems and then printing solutions is a whole new level...

He is saying it doesn't help without additional effort, which is true, and I am saying it helps the community at large if more people are geared up for endgame content. I don't see those as being incompatible.

It reduces the total effort needed, which is P2W.

Wrong. P2W is something only available in the store that gives a player an unfair advantage over another player which cannot be acquired through normal gameplay.

 

Nothing you have listed as an item, example or argument fits the definition of Pay to Win. You are objecting to the Convenience aspect of the store in which some players choose to participate.

 

You don't even understand what you are arguing against. lulz

Take 2 accounts with 1,000 credits, and grade 1 ship items and the ability to play 24 hours a day. One account has infinite real life money.

Who gets the Ship 7 Upgrades first and therefore can beat those missions first and start earning other things to increase their gear first?

Oops... looks like one account has an ADVANTAGE.

Sorry, but that ruins the fairness of the game. You seems to be missing the point... completely.

Oh, fairness, well if that is your goal, good luck. What about the people who have no jobs or work very litle and thus have the time to grind hours upon hours while those of us who go to work a lot can't. Is that fair?

Take 2 accounts with 1,000 credits, and grade 1 ship items and the ability to play 24 hours a day. One account has infinite real life money.

 

Who gets the Ship 7 Upgrades first and therefore can beat those missions first and start earning other things to increase their gear first?

 

Oops... looks like one account has an ADVANTAGE.

Yep, again exactly P2W.

It's not P2W. You are equivocating so badly on the P2W idea that you have blurred the meaning of the concept entirely.

Again that IS P2W, you couldn't get a much clearer example of it.

Wrong. What you have described is textbook Pay-For-Convenience.

Sorry trying to greenwash P2W by trying to change the name will never fly, a very nice try though. Have you ever considered a job in Freemium marketing?

Take 2 accounts with 1,000 credits, and grade 1 ship items and the ability to play 24 hours a day. One account has infinite real life money.

 

Who gets the Ship 7 Upgrades first and therefore can beat those missions first and start earning other things to increase their gear first?

 

Oops... looks like one account has an ADVANTAGE.

So experience boosts are p2win?

Its jealousy and epeen, 100%. Earning the comms from the space missions helps people gear up for HMs and Ops. Its to everyone's benefit that more people equip endgame gear, but pettiness blinds people.

Unless they're balancing missions/ops/etc... around P2W, then it is NOT to everyone's benefit.

One account has infinite real life money.

and how's that a realistic basis for your example?

It reduces the total effort needed, which is P2W.

You are being shortsighted. The endgame is HM and NM Flashpoints and Ops. Those are team-oriented group activites. Anything that puts more players in a position to be able to do those missions successfully is good for everyone. Its different for PVP because that is competitive, but I don't think the BH and daily comms earned from these new space missions can buy anything useful in PVP, correct me if I am wrong.

Wrong. P2W is something only available in the store that gives a player an unfair advantage over another player which cannot be acquired through normal gameplay.

We've already established that by your obtuse definition, NO GAME is p2w. Since we (at least everyone but you) can agree that's an idiotic assertion desperately clinging to semantics, I don't see you being taken seriously here. At all.

As long as an item remains tradable in-game, you can rest on your silly individual definition to give EA a pass on everything ("hey, you can still buy it or trade for it!!"). I am sure that will give you comfort as more people leave the game.

You are being shortsighted. The endgame is HM and NM Flashpoints and Ops. Those are team-oriented group activites. Anything that puts more players in a position to be able to do those missions successfully is good for everyone. Its different for PVP because that is competitive, but I don't think the BH and daily comms earned from these new space missions can buy anything useful in PVP, correct me if I am wrong.

Ah, so you are one of the people I mentioned that measures p2w by interaction with others. Gotcha. lol. See my last post for a rebuttal but that aside, I look forward to chatting in a few months. Buckle up.

Unless they're balancing missions/ops/etc... around P2W, then it is NOT to everyone's benefit.

I'll grant you that, BUT all of the things we are talking about are available without paying any real money, so I don't think it is an issue.

Pay to win and wanting money for basic game functions and content will kill the game because people don't want to play games that are like that. But big corps like EA just can't help themselves when it comes to quick money grabbing.

If SWTOR goes under because of bad management, they will blame the community or developers and move on to ruin the next big thing. As always.

It's not P2W. You are equivocating so badly on the P2W idea that you have blurred the meaning of the concept entirely.

 

 

 

Wrong. What you have described is textbook Pay-For-Convenience.

 

 

 

 

The starship upgrades are not P2W. You can rest your worried head now.

 

 

 

 

Wrong. P2W is something only available in the store that gives a player an unfair advantage over another player which cannot be acquired through normal gameplay.

 

Nothing you have listed as an item, example or argument fits the definition of Pay to Win. You are objecting to the Convenience aspect of the store in which some players choose to participate.

 

You don't even understand what you are arguing against. lulz

 

 

 

 

That is not P2W. See the definition above and try again.

I think you are wrong on most accounts. If EA/BW were to start selling Dreadguard/EliteWarhero a piece for 300 cc it is definitely P2W, yet according to "your" definitions it is called what P2Convenicence? Really? P2W something only available in store? where are you getting all this stuff? Textbook P2Convenience ? I am sorry but I have to say reading your post actually made me lol.

You are being shortsighted. The endgame is HM and NM Flashpoints and Ops. Those are team-oriented group activites. Anything that puts more players in a position to be able to do those missions successfully is good for everyone. Its different for PVP because that is competitive, but I don't think the BH and daily comms earned from these new space missions can buy anything useful in PVP, correct me if I am wrong.

Following that train of thougth, you would then have no issue I guess with people being able to buy OP level gear off the Cashshop?

I would personally, but there I guess is where we differ on this issue.

I'll grant you that, BUT all of the things we are talking about are available without paying any real money, so I don't think it is an issue.

I strongly believe that the space fleet comms would have been in the neighborhood of 200-250 fleet comms before they implemented the cash shop. Similarly, I doubt HK-51 would have been 1 million credits for an account unlock before the implementation of the cash shop.

Ah, so you are one of the people I mentioned that measures p2w by interaction with others. Gotcha. lol. See my last post for a rebuttal but that aside, I look forward to chatting in a few months. Buckle up.

I'm not sure what you mean, but if I decide to get in a queue and the people I get teamed with have good gear, I see it as a win.