With patch 3.0 coming up soon, the PTS is an invite only server. Bioware have given out invites to certain guilds, namely the ones who got the timed runs on DP NiM pre buff. Surely this is giving these select few guilds a massive unfair advantage over all the other NiM raiding guilds who maybe just missed timed run inside the buff window or who have only started doing NiM raids after the buff. I know that they probably wont release NiM new ops for a while and that it will be just SM and HM versions of them, but this is still giving a select few guilds on each server a massive unfair advantage over the rest. On my server for instance (ToFN) there is one guild that I am aware of that have been invited onto the PTS. This now gives them a massive unfair advantage over all the other NiM guilds on the server, so it almost seems like Bioware, in there wisdom, have almost selected there "favourites" for one for a better word, to give them an advantage to also get server first clear of the new operations. Surely the idea of competing for server firsts is that each and every guild starts from scratch and competes to see who can clear it first. Now I know Bioware wont reply to this, as they only seem to reply to irrelevant forum posts, but I just felt that I should say something as it seems highly unfair.

Thanks for reading, no troll replys please

With patch 3.0 coming up soon, the PTS is an invite only server ... On my server for instance (ToFN) there is one guild that I am aware of that have been invited onto the PTS.

Isn't there still an NDA? So, how would you know this? I mean, *know* this? Just because scuttlebutt is that Guild Y is in doesn't make it fact.

I know that they probably wont release NiM new ops for a while and that it will be just SM and HM versions of them, but this is still giving a select few guilds on each server a massive unfair advantage over the rest.

You are right: NiM has never been released consecutive with SM and HM.

Your guild will have plenty of time to figure out SM and HM before NiM shows its head. So, if your guild is as rock star as you elude, ya'll should be fine.

Basically: it only makes sense that Bioware chooses, amongst others, some guilds that have 'performed well' in PVE. (And some PVP season winners too, for that matter along with some 'casuals' too, one would hope.)

Do you recall the Community Team asking for guilds to get in touch with them? Did your guild do that? That was about as much of an obvious casting call as Bioware could have possibly given! If your guild didn't, then that's on you. If they did, well, perhaps your guild just didn't get selected. Your's wouldn't be the only one I imagine!

I know that they probably wont release NiM new ops for a while and that it will be just SM and HM versions of them, but this is still giving a select few guilds on each server a massive unfair advantage over the rest.

You pretty much sunk your own argument, such as it was, with this statement here.

You are saying guilds will have an advantage? To what? The NiM content firsts/titles/speed runs? You just acknowledged that SM/HM will be out for a good while before NiM is on offer. Any experience gap between those guilds currently testing, and the rest will disappear completely by the time that everyone has moved through the SM and then HM content. By the time that NiM gets released, everyone who wants to attempt it will have had ample opportunity to become grounded in the HM mechanics of the Ops.

This type of hysterical hand wringing is going on all over the game by certain people regarding what may/may not happen in 3.0....Chill the F out dude, its all going to be ok

1. The guilds and players who are testing content on the PTS are performing a service for the entire community in identifying bugs. Of course the Developers need some of the top nightmare guilds on there. All ten bosses need to get cleared quickly, so having players capable of doing that in just a couple of weeks so there is time to make adjustments and retest is important.
   
2. Nobody cares about World First hard mode clears.
   
3. The new nightmare operations will likely go up on a public PTS and all the top guilds will go clear them there and then clear them again on Day 1 of their Live release. There is no more meaningful nightmare race in this game. Zorz cleared nightmare Dread Palace four hours after it was released on Live, and they were delayed by about an hour because the servers were going nuts from the buggy 16-man Group Finder implementation.
   

1. The guilds and players who are testing content on the PTS are performing a service for the entire community in identifying bugs. Of course the Developers need some of the top nightmare guilds on there. All ten bosses need to get cleared quickly, so having players capable of doing that in just a couple of weeks so there is time to make adjustments and retest is important.
   
2. Nobody cares about World First hard mode clears.
   
3. The new nightmare operations will likely go up on a public PTS and all the top guilds will go clear them there and then clear them again on Day 1 of their Live release. There is no more meaningful nightmare race in this game. Zorz cleared nightmare Dread Palace four hours after it was released on Live, and they were delayed by about an hour because the servers were going nuts from the buggy 16-man Group Finder implementation.
   

This, especially the bolded part.

Although I think they should've divided PTS in two sections, one public where you can test out all the game changes and new FP's and ops. And one closed for the story part of the game, so it doesn't get spoiled to much.

namely the ones who got the timed runs on DP NiM pre buff.

Nope we were not invited, someone said UFROG also didn't get pts invites and I'm sure there are others with pre nerf timed runs who didn't.

And of course as people already mentioned nobody cares about HM world firsts

Why bother, the ops will get cleared within 24 hours max anyway.

Isn't there still an NDA? So, how would you know this? I mean, *know* this? Just because scuttlebutt is that Guild Y is in doesn't make it fact.

Its not rocket sience.

Just check who is missing on live at certain times if you care.

if your knowledge of who is and who is not on PTS is based on "hearing" so and so did not get invites or "hearing" some guild did, or doing class A detective work by performing a /who and figuring that there is ONLY ONE REASON why a guild isn't on in large numbers at a time you feel they should be, then you need a tin foil hat and an invitation back to high school lunch period, because this thread is ridiculous. Bioware said they would invite some top raid guilds, some casual guilds, some theorycrafters, top PVPers, a whole range of the player base. It would stand to reason that they can't invite literally everyone, because at the end of the day, how is it a closed beta if you have everyone in it.

And if people actually think advantage for HM is a thing, then I don't know what to tell you. Nobody in NiM gets a woody for HM progression race. Nobody. We care about NiM. That's literally it. If having months upon months to prepare for NiM when 3.0 goes live isn't enough because you feel you didn't have a number of weeks to test the HMs that you feel that you deserved to have tested, then there's something wrong with your raid. It's hard mode. Hard mode.

"We sittin here and I'm supposed to be a franchise player

And we in here talking about practice

I mean, listen, we talkin bout practice" Allen Iverson. Very relevant.

Everyone I know in our guild is soooooooo happy for new HMs for the new HM grind /s

HM Progression doesn't really exist because it's HM. Not NiM. If Closed Beta Test offered NiM, which I doubt because going off of 2.0, they only had HM, then I can see where this is going. But it's probably not. So you're just tooting your horn at some issue that you think exists but doesn't.

Also NiM =/= HM. If you think having a headstart on HM gives you a headstart on NiM, then I dunno what to say.

The progression race in 3.0 is already meaningless, because you have to level to 60 first. Progression races are about a guild's ability to learn ops, not grind levels. But in 3.0 there's no way to separate them.

So good thing it's only HM, which no one cares about to begin with.

Also I'm gonna go ahead and be a bit of a dick, and say what I'm sure others are thinking. If what you say is accurate, and it's the NiM clearing guilds who are getting this alleged PTS head-start, and that does not include you [because you didn't clear NiM]... what makes you think you were ever going to beat these guilds in a progression race, head-start or not?

say swtor raiding competition with a straight face

cos i cant

Find me a progression player who gives a flying sith about HM progression plz.

This pretty much sums it up.

Find me a progression player who gives a flying sith about HM progression plz.

Which is why I hate progression players.

They openly say that everything beneath them is just trash.

And since they see themselves as the top of the food chain ...

Which is why I hate progression players.

They openly say that everything beneath them is just trash.

And since they see themselves as the top of the food chain ...

There's an obvious reason for that. It's because you are trash and we are the top of the food chain. Duh.

Which is why I hate progression players.

They openly say that everything beneath them is just trash.

And since they see themselves as the top of the food chain ...

It's not "trash" it's just that HM content as we've seen it in every iteration in this game from 1.0 to 2.10.x has been not hard. It's simply that it's not a progression race if the content is too easily trivialized. I mean, it could be countered that by those standards NiM is not hard enough, but....

Do you expect progression raiders to have competitive arguments about SM? No, you wouldn't. Why would you think they would go HAM for HM. HM SNV was cleared with Dread Guard gear when it launched. Level 50 NiM gear. DF DP HM was cleared day one with previous tier gear. It was overtuned day one and it was still cleared. At some level, people tracked who killed what how quickly, but the guilds didn't actively CARE. It was just a byproduct of "we all want this dead so we can farm it" on their ends.

I'm a progression raider that started in the SM ranks, killed nothing of any note until this DF DP NiM tier. There is absolutely a high level of elitism and pompousness in the ranks of progression raiders. But... Who do you think comes up with your SM/HM strategies? You think it's casual raiders? The good HM strategies are ones that progression raiders have either: made guides for on the forum or on reddit, made video guides of, have had their strategies taken from their twitch streams. You know the SM strategies that most guilds use in group finder or in their guilds to put up with dragging new players into fights, where they heavily rely on 2-3 people to carry the instance? These strategies are things that progression raiders had to bring up when pugging for comms on alts, because they didn't want to deal with wiping dozens of times to get people to actually do mechanics (think SM Calph cheese strat where everyone goes left for first past/future ****).

IDK. That probably came off as rude. It wasn't meant to. I've had an awesome time raiding in this game, whether it's the easy content when I was a casual player, or the harder content when I got into progression. But it's not really thinking everyone is trash if it's not them. It's just that the content isn't worth having progression raiders care in regards to competitive advantages that may or may not exist.

You know the SM strategies that most guilds use in group finder or in their guilds to put up with dragging new players into fights, where they heavily rely on 2-3 people to carry the instance? These strategies are things that progression raiders had to bring up when pugging for comms on alts, because they didn't want to deal with wiping dozens of times to get people to actually do mechanics.

LOL - I was thinking of Council SM/16 when all you need to clear it is 1 knowledgeable tank, 1 person who can kite Raptus for a few brief moments, 1 off-tank who can get smacked by Calphayus for a couple minutes and 1 knowledgeable DPS.

You mark the 1 DPS who knows what they're doing with Star and instruct everyone else to "kill what Star is killing and stand where they stand."

Fight cleared.

LOL - I was thinking of Council SM/16 when all you need to clear it is 1 knowledgeable tank, 1 person who can kite Raptus for a few brief moments, 1 off-tank who can get smacked by Calphayus for a couple minutes and 1 knowledgeable DPS.

 

You mark the 1 DPS who knows what they're doing with Star and instruct everyone else to "kill what Star is killing and stand where they stand."

 

Fight cleared.

That's 100% accurate. And I can tell you stories about slews of guilds that wiped on SM Council for months. There's a reason SM strats are so goofy when you compare them to HM/NiM strats. And not just in ways that are because "the mechanic is missing in SM"

That's 100% accurate. And I can tell you stories about slews of guilds that wiped on SM Council for months. There's a reason SM strats are so goofy when you compare them to HM/NiM strats. And not just in ways that are because "the mechanic is missing in SM"

My favourite "breaking" of Council was in a SM/8 run.

I went in with a guild of fully 186 geared nightmare progression players (they wanted Conquest points). They had one tank, one healer and six DPS in the group.

Bestia, Tyrans and Raptus were all pushed back up to their thrones within a handful of seconds of them coming down. We killed Styrak and Brontes so quickly that we had to sit around and wait for the other four Dread Masters to return. We then proceeded to push Bestia and a second Dread Master to 0% before the 20 second channel was completed and only took two Dread Masters into the burn phase.

My favourite "breaking" of Council was in a SM/8 run.

 

I went in with a guild of fully 186 geared nightmare progression players (they wanted Conquest points). They had one tank, one healer and six DPS in the group.

 

Bestia, Tyrans and Raptus were all pushed back up to their thrones within a handful of seconds of them coming down. We killed Styrak and Brontes so quickly that we had to sit around and wait for the other four Dread Masters to return. We then proceeded to push Bestia and a second Dread Master to 0% before the 20 second channel was completed and only took two Dread Masters into the burn phase.

We did the same thing once, except we intentionally left Brontes up and spinning around for the entire rest of the fight. She actually stops spinning and goes back to teleporting around the room while you are looting. What we need is for someone to make a video of doing that in hard mode. That, and the thing that happens if no one gets her crystal.