I realize Volatile Strike isn't a parsing tactical so it might not even be on on BW's radar, but for the love of God can someone get it across to them how ridiculously strong it is? Now that Death Knell and Gathering Storm are taking heavy nerfs concealment operatives will literally have no competition, it's all we'll see in solo ranked for months until another patch comes out (or doesn't) to fix it. Please, you got 2 of the 3 overtuned classes this meta, as much as I may disagree with the additional gimmick of having to use polarity during force speed. But getting 2 out of 3 doesn't do much for class balance if you leave arguably the worst offender unchecked. Healer friends of mine have quit the game (or quit healing and rerolled conc) because the burst from this one tactical is literally unhealable, and it prevents them from being able to make an impact. The purpose of having a PvE tactical (Acid Lash) and a PvP tactical (Volatile Strike) was to be able to balance independently between the two modes, so please use it. Literally just make it a single autocrit instead of a double, or give it a cooldown. If BW shows a bit of diligence here they could make this the update that levels the playing field between most classes, and that's something that I'm dying to see.

At least operative needs setup, it requires 3 buttons and is predictable, so you can time defensives to negate it.

Deception just spammed one button... so, not sheding a tear. As far as operatives go, i would prefer to see roll's cd increased by one second and the healing on dps specs reduced.

Concealment is nerfed on the pts, they just didn't mention it in any of the posts. The tactician set was nerfed:

 

Tactician

(4) Tactical Overdrive additionally resets the cooldowns of Sever Tendon and Toxin Scan. Gaining a Tactical Advantage increases your critical chance by 10% for 10 seconds. Can only happen once every 18 seconds.

 

So it doesn't reset backstab anymore, and can only happen every 18 seconds, versus 10 seconds before.

Concealment is nerfed on the pts, they just didn't mention it in any of the posts. The tactician set was nerfed:

 

Tactician

(4) Tactical Overdrive additionally resets the cooldowns of Sever Tendon and Toxin Scan. Gaining a Tactical Advantage increases your critical chance by 10% for 10 seconds. Can only happen once every 18 seconds.

 

So it doesn't reset backstab anymore, and can only happen every 18 seconds, versus 10 seconds before.

 

Quite a few operatives run Debilitator already, this will just add more incentive to do so.

Unlike the sin, the operatives issue was not gloablling you in one stun duration. It is often how long they survive and wearing you down. Their burst is like someone else said predictable with alot of defensives that can mittigate it. What makes them strong is having that control over the fight, utility, self healing, and solid sustain. I think they will be fine, it is much easier to manage and defend against.

Concealment is nerfed on the pts, they just didn't mention it in any of the posts. The tactician set was nerfed:

 

Tactician

(4) Tactical Overdrive additionally resets the cooldowns of Sever Tendon and Toxin Scan. Gaining a Tactical Advantage increases your critical chance by 10% for 10 seconds. Can only happen once every 18 seconds.

 

So it doesn't reset backstab anymore, and can only happen every 18 seconds, versus 10 seconds before.

 

with this nerf is this set still viable for concealment and letahlity or go wtih debilitator set ?

with this nerf is this set still viable for concealment and letahlity or go wtih debilitator set ?

 

I don't play op at all, so I don't know. Some ops were already using debilitator. I assume more will, but tactician is probably still viable.

I don't play op at all, so I don't know. Some ops were already using debilitator. I assume more will, but tactician is probably still viable.

 

I mostly play leth, but the max output I've ever seen from another leth op (running tactician) was 19.6k dps, 1100dps. Most I've ever pulled with debilitator is 17.1k dps, 4k hps. I've been running debil since the beginning because I got 4 random drops of the gear quickly and so I only had to buy two slots to get the 6 piece. I have only ever gotten two slots of the tactician and never felt the need to go buy the remaining pieces.

 

The extra rolls on conc are great, even if it is a probable DPS loss.

I realize Volatile Strike isn't a parsing tactical so it might not even be on on BW's radar, but for the love of God can someone get it across to them how ridiculously strong it is? Now that Death Knell and Gathering Storm are taking heavy nerfs concealment operatives will literally have no competition, it's all we'll see in solo ranked for months until another patch comes out (or doesn't) to fix it. Please, you got 2 of the 3 overtuned classes this meta, as much as I may disagree with the additional gimmick of having to use polarity during force speed. But getting 2 out of 3 doesn't do much for class balance if you leave arguably the worst offender unchecked. Healer friends of mine have quit the game (or quit healing and rerolled conc) because the burst from this one tactical is literally unhealable, and it prevents them from being able to make an impact. The purpose of having a PvE tactical (Acid Lash) and a PvP tactical (Volatile Strike) was to be able to balance independently between the two modes, so please use it. Literally just make it a single autocrit instead of a double, or give it a cooldown. If BW shows a bit of diligence here they could make this the update that levels the playing field between most classes, and that's something that I'm dying to see.

 

Outside yolo ranked (which is tacked on mode that is never balanced and balance is never done around it), dec should be stronger, especially in longer fights, as most regular WZs and TM ranked tend to be.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Ottoattack

Well the best swtor streamer plays Concealment, so streamer privilege

Well the best swtor streamer plays Concealment, so streamer privilege

 

*Only.

As stated, Concealment is getting nerfs, which is also stated in the PTS section. I guess reading comprehension can be hard though.

As stated, Concealment is getting nerfs, which is also stated in the PTS section. I guess reading comprehension can be hard though.

 

This thread was made several weeks before the tactician's set changes were announced, but, as you mentioned, reading is hard. I do worry that these changes may be too slight to upset concealment's dominance in this meta, but at least it's a start. I'm hesitant to applaud a change that affects medicine and lethality perhaps even more severely than the target spec though. The problem tactical has been clearly identified and a concealment operative running acid lash would not be even close to as oppressive as those running volatile strike, but it seems like the devs have backed away from the strategy of nerfing tacticals to separate pvp and pve nerfs. Anyway, this thread has lost its relevance until we see how the changes play out in solos.

Fair point about timing. Personally, I think concealment (and lightning) are both being nerfed too much. My opinion is the crit chance duration or percentage should be adjusted, not both, but I digress. My worry is that with the specs parsing relative to AP being nerfed (ok, maybe lightning shouldn't be doing as much dps as AP) that AP is going to be significantly over-tuned relative to everything else, especially considering they're getting (minor) buffs this patch too.

 

It's a fine line when it comes to balancing concealment, if you give it too much power you see a stealth meta run rampant. If you nerf it too much, like is happening to deception and somewhat to concealment, you make it irrelevant. Bioware has proven over time they're pretty awful at walking the fine line, but we'll see how things turn out I guess.

Bioware has proven over time they're pretty awful at walking the fine line, but we'll see how things turn out I guess.

 

Sad but true. Are sorcs really that overtuned? I like them in Hammer Station FP runs they melt stuff fast! That sucks if they nerf them. Finally they seem decent.

Concealment being nerfed too much???

 

I don't even use tactician set but debilitator

Enjoy 6 sec trollroll and 2 x 4 s hardstun with volatile strike untouched

Enjoy opness

zero nerf here

Concealment being nerfed too much???

 

I don't even use tactician set but debilitator

Enjoy 6 sec trollroll and 2 x 4 s hardstun with volatile strike untouched

Enjoy opness

zero nerf here

 

Power to you in 1v1s or 2v2s then, but in a 4v4 or more putting out the dps needed against a competent isn't really going to happen. This is how ops were throughout 5.x, sure, with lower roll and cc count, so we all know how to play like this. With that being said, actually being a part of the meta is nice.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Barnonahill

Power to you in 1v1s or 2v2s then, but in a 4v4 or more putting out the dps needed against a competent isn't really going to happen. This is how ops were throughout 5.x, sure, with lower roll and cc count, so we all know how to play like this. With that being said, actually being a part of the meta is nice.

 

Good opers will find a way to make themselves relevant in the meta as before. Conc oper will finally require skill again. Sure, I enjoyed the buffs for about a week, until I realized all the ****** players were playing operative and getting away with mediocre skill. Go back to merc. Go back to mara.

 

I'm more worried about what these changes do to oper healer.... might be a significant nerf to hps output.

Good opers will find a way to make themselves relevant in the meta as before. Conc oper will finally require skill again. Sure, I enjoyed the buffs for about a week, until I realized all the ****** players were playing operative and getting away with mediocre skill. Go back to merc. Go back to mara.

 

I'm more worried about what these changes do to oper healer.... might be a significant nerf to hps output.

 

I don't play op heals, so I can't really comment on tactician set changes to the spec, but people who can play Concealment near the skill ceiling like you, Aggin, Krispy, Shadow, et al. are a minority. For every concealment op I see that gives me a run for my money conc v. conc, I see 5 that I can 1v2 on arsenal without breaking a sweat. Operative has always been a technical class though, so this is more commentary rather than trying to say operative needs buffs.

 

If all of the proposed changes go through though, I can't agree with you Prum that concealment will still be relevant to group fight meta. In solos? Sure, concealment will always have a place. But in 4s? There'll be no point to bring a concealment op over an AP PT.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Barnonahill

Dps Sorcs shouldn't be nerfed, at least not so fast. They've been bad for so long now. Years. Give them some time to shine.