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Kitru's New Class Idea

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Kitru's New Class Idea

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
07.31.2013 , 07:27 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by plokolplok View Post
Hmm, Mystic and Guardsman.. the only viable option for me is to keep one and change the other.
My problem mostly derives from a desire to make them both double ranged ACs to prevent overloading the game with mDPS. I can *very* easily construct a design for them that encompasses everything I want out of them using a melee construct. The Mystic and Guardsman would both be melee ACs channeling their force powers through their electrostaffs: Mystics lighting their staffs on fire or surrounding them in sheaths of Force whereas Guardsman simply channel the Emperor's near divine might through their weapons to augment their blows.

The problem is in creating a ranged construct that still makes sense for the both of them while simultaneously matching power sources (Force and Force). The Mystic's ranged construct would be *very* Force heavy: flamestrikes, lightning, illusions, etc. (all of the kewl weird Force powers that exist in the EU but aren't used by Jedi/Sith in TOR). The Guardsman's ranged construct could be based upon one of two different possibilities. The first, which groks the best with the Mystic's ranged construct *mechanically*, is channeling the Emperor's powers and unleashing them upon foes so that, instead of lightning and more lightning, it's more like raw black/blue/purple dark side energy. The second, which groks with the Guardsman construct thematically, is using a rifle, which is problematic since rifles are Tech rather than Force. I could *potentially* explain it as the electrostaff being modified to fire bolts of energy which are powered by a combination of technology and the Emperor's divine will, but it always feels a bit cheese-y to me.

The stories themselves were set up to accommodate both ACs equally well. The Adept's focuses upon discovering its origins and the interaction with the other organizations that it naturally upsets with its presence (i.e how the Jedi Order feels about the Adept). The Fanatic's focuses upon serving as one of the elite servants of the Emperor, sent to serve his interests directly by strengthening the cult of the Emperor and taking care of threats to his supremacy. The original name for the Fanatic was the "Cultist", but I felt that Fanatic fit better.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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plokolplok's Avatar


plokolplok
07.31.2013 , 08:41 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
...

The stories themselves were set up to accommodate both ACs equally well. The Adept's focuses upon discovering its origins and the interaction with the other organizations that it naturally upsets with its presence (i.e how the Jedi Order feels about the Adept). The Fanatic's focuses upon serving as one of the elite servants of the Emperor, sent to serve his interests directly by strengthening the cult of the Emperor and taking care of threats to his supremacy. The original name for the Fanatic was the "Cultist", but I felt that Fanatic fit better.
Oh, I see, the Guardsman/Fanatic makes even more sense now. Nice.

Though, (haha), I still think that there's a better term for "Guardsman", maybe something less tank-sounding and something more dark, since they ARE Emperor-fanbois xD. Maybe a term from the EU, perhaps? Guardsman works, dont get me wrong, but a term inclined on the dark side might sound better. Like how it ended up being Consular and Inquisitor from their old names. Then again that's just me, sorry.

Anyway, this is also too early for me to effectively contribute constructively (i never liked the word criticize even in the context of constructive criticism :P) to your magnificent piece of an idea, especially that only the gist of the AC's were given. So Ill save it for when it's out!

Kudos!
Quote:
The Force guide you and keep you;
The Force make its face shine on you, and be gracious to you;
The Force turn fate towards you, and give you peace~.

CrygonFreeze's Avatar


CrygonFreeze
08.11.2013 , 02:38 PM | #123
This is a pretty awesome forum here, I would recommend voting for it so maybe a dev would look at it.
Just call me Mr. Miller

Timarick's Avatar


Timarick
08.17.2013 , 02:56 AM | #124
I approve. Sorry, I haven't had time to sift through the section of the game, but did you by chance create an IMPERIAL side class? If so, I must've missed it.

Yes I know the Jedi/Sith classes are interchangeable with one-another, but I am curious to see if you could come up with a class to COMPLEMENT the Echani, being a Melee focused class, and maybe centralize it around the Imperial faction, only making a ranged class.

With the inception of Treek, a Tank/Healer into the mix, it would be fascinating to see. I remember when Diablo 2's expansion came in and they had 2 distinct classes with it: Druid and Assassin. So if the Echani are the melee focused group and really centralized in the Republic, what would really draw to the Empire? Nightsisters would be cool, considering they typically use Force Magycks and Energy Bows (or Bowcasters which are shown), and while not persay Imperial loyalists, in this time of the lore are in fact loyal to the Sith. So like the Echani with their off-beat almost mystical connection to the Force (which is hard not to draw the line, they're far more ritualistic than Mandalorians), the Nightsisters would almost be a counterpoint to the more serene Echani with their Magycks and really give that sense of power.

And before anyone goes off, in the lore there have been proven to be the Nightbrothers, who typically are secondary to the females, but if one is particularly exceptional (like Savage Opress), they are given amnesty within the clan and even respect. But since they still take orders from the Mother, it can be led to argue that the Nightsister/brother class would begin as one who has been given up to servitude to the Mother, who has aligned herself with the Sith (insert Darth you will kill at the end here) and you are to become her finest champion to represent Dathomir in the Empire. The only changes there between the genders would in essence be minor inflections not unlike they do with the whole "aliens vs. humans" debates or when they say "he" or "she".

Kitru is far more detailed in the aspect of the gameplay engine, so I'mma back out of that, but from a lore perspective, a ranged class with an "almost" connection to the Force to counter the melee monks of the Echani would play quite the balance. Just need to figure out how they would work.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
08.17.2013 , 09:20 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by Timarick View Post
I approve. Sorry, I haven't had time to sift through the section of the game, but did you by chance create an IMPERIAL side class? If so, I must've missed it.
The Imperial mirror of the Echani is the Thyrsians.

If you're referring to the second class idea of the pair that I suggested that this would go with, I've got one that mostly done and is just waiting on having the last bits of one of the stories for it finished before I post it. I actually reference this in the last few posts.

Quote:
So like the Echani with their off-beat almost mystical connection to the Force (which is hard not to draw the line, they're far more ritualistic than Mandalorians)
The Echani aren't connected to the Force any more than any other race. It's actually something of a taboo for one of their kind to use it (just check out KotOR 2 with Brianna; she's Force Sensitive but takes a *lot* to convince her that she should get trained by you and, even then, she admits that it's going against her cultural bonds). Their ability to predict attacks is based purely upon a *massive* amount of experience fighting, not drawing upon the Force in any way. This is why I made the Echani and Thyrsian ACs Tech based, rather than Force based.

Quote:
And before anyone goes off, in the lore there
If you checked the lore, you'd know that the Witches of Dathomir, of which the Nightsisters are a sect of, were not even founded, by the Jedi knight that was banished there, until 600 BBY. TOR is set 3000 years before that. As such, no variety of Witch of Dathomir, whether Nightbrother/sister or one of the non-evil clans, is appropriate for the timeline. It's been recommended time and again in this as well as other threads and the answer is always the same: they're not right for the timeline.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

Jastafar's Avatar


Jastafar
08.18.2013 , 01:26 PM | #126
So basically, these new classes fight like this? http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...8h3o1_1280.gif

Tazmynn's Avatar


Tazmynn
08.19.2013 , 10:35 PM | #127
Pretty cool idea, with a ton of detail. I like the idea of having the two resource pools. A few things though:
1. It seems like it would make more sense to create a new main stat for them instead of giving them one of the 4 that exist right now so it wouldn't unbalance them.
2. For the pure dps class, it would make more sense to give all of them stealth than to make it part of one skill tree. Everyone would choose that skill tree to get stealth because you can do a lot with it.
3. This class seems very similar to Warriors/Knights. They're a melee class that uses Strength and has a dps/tank AC and a pure dps AC. Their abilities involve a lot of different strikes too.
4. This would make there be more tank classes than healer classes. I think it might be better if they were dps/tank and dps/heal so it's balanced, that might also reduce the number of dps total. It would be cool to see a Melee healer if you could make that work somehow.
Tazmynn Madcatter

Ikorus's Avatar


Ikorus
12.12.2013 , 11:40 PM | #128
This seems like it might be a bit of a necro post really, but I have to do this. Apologies in advance for the massive wall of text incoming.

The main precept of this "Adventure Pack" (thank you everquest 2, for that wonderful descriptor) is to add variety and interest from players *at a minimal cost and effort*. The sheer amount of programming required to add a new stat - or two - to every in-game entity would be intensive, time consuming, and by extension expensive. The OP herself even mentions this. Multiple times.

I am inclined to agree with baselining stealth however. Other stealth-capable classes (Scoundrel/Operative, Sith Assassin/Jedi Shadow, and to a *very limited* extent Jedi Sentinel/Sith Marauder in the form of a single cooldown the *does actually function* as a stealth) are capable of stealthing regardless of their skill specialization even if that isn't their main method of dealing damage. I see no reason the Echani and Thyrstians should be gimped out of it.

The similarity between Echani and Jedi Knights ends past "Has Tank tree, Hits Stuff Up Close, Uses Strength". Troopers/Bounty Hunters and Inquisitors/Consulars also have tanking trees, and also hit things in melee range in order to be optimal on their tank-capable Advanced Classes. The other ones are ranged though, yes. The major similarity is in their main stat but then the only way to be honestly different from any of the other tank-capable classes would be if Cunning was their main stat. Which would actually be interesting, a Cunning tank.

However, I must advise against a Dual Main Stat system a la HK-51, since Main Stat improves ALL of your skills, while Secondary stat just improves skills it's linked to. For example Strength will improve a Sith Warrior's Ravage AND his Force Scream, while Willpower ONLY improves his Force Scream and Cunning and Aim improve absolutely nothing. What you COULD do is simply change their skill paradigm. Warriors/Knights and Inquisitors/Consulars use Force and Melee skills while Bounty Hunters/Troopers and Imperial Agents/Smugglers use Tech and Ranged skills. Rather than having the Echani/Thyrstians and Adepts/Fanatics use the same paradigm (Force+Melee, Tech+Ranged) you could have the Echani/Thyrstians use Melee and Tech skills so that if Strength is the Main Stat you could still have a reason to desire some cunning rather than Willpower, while Adepts/Fanatics could use Force and Ranged skills with say...willpower as the mainstat, and aim as a support. Double Mainstat would be incredibly overpowered without converting all classes to do the same. The only reason HK gets away with it (and he is widely considered the single best dps companion) is to make up for the lack of aim on the majority of sniper rifles, while every droid part ever uses aim as a baseline (though can be remodded to have cunning).

The Tank/Healer/Damage-Dealer ratiowould actually be preserved flawlessly, as the tank-capable Echani/Thrystians would not be the only new mirrors, accompanied by the Heal-capable Adept/Fanatic.

By the way I'm curious - if the Echani/Thyrstians share the resources of Breath and Intuition, like the Smuggler/Agent and Inquisitor/Consular's Energy and Force, would the Fanatic and Adept have differently named (and possibly inverted) resources like the Bounty Hunter/Trooper's Heat vs Energy Cells and the Knight/Warrior's Focus vs Rage?

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TheSupaCoopa
12.14.2013 , 05:19 PM | #129
Duran'del here:

I would love to see a Chess Expansionary Defense Force (CEDF) Officer.
Class buff: +2.5% accuracy and alacrity
Traits:
-medium armor
-cunning
-stealth
-Chiss is default species(Human and Cyborg would also be usable)

Advanced classes:
Enforcer(Striker, Tactician, Pointman)
-Striker: DPS tree, focuses on mobility and self-HoTs)
-Tactician: DPS tree, focuses on stealth(Shared)
-Pointman: Tank tree, focuses in using experimental technology to protect teamates.
Infiltrator(Specialist, Tactician, Demolitions)
-Specialist: Uses EMP tech to take out steal others(Top-tier skill: Night Vision Visor, which increases stealth detection by 100.)
-Demolitions: Uses high explosives to eliminate enemies(vape charges, grenades, etc.
The Valiance Legacy, Begeren Colony
"I don't get paid to do the easy jobs, ma'am."- Republic Trooper
Current 50's and 55's

vPLethality AmillarArturon

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LaniAkavir
01.05.2014 , 09:25 AM | #130
I wonder if this will ever happen, though I'm not a big fan of Echani style, I'm anxious to see BW introduce a new class or something already.
Combat Medic since Summer 2011

Kenji, S-1 All-Derp
The Medic's Legacy