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Advanced Prototype is a joke right?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Advanced Prototype is a joke right?

DamienHelzcoming's Avatar


DamienHelzcoming
03.14.2012 , 06:01 PM | #21
Hate on it all you want. I am no pro or anything...
But after scoring top four in damage and kills from lvl 10-12 in pvp I personally think I am enjoying the class as a whole. I mean; I might keep playing and find holes... But so far I am definitely enjoying myself. A lot.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.14.2012 , 06:07 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by DamienHelzcoming View Post
Hate on it all you want. I am no pro or anything...
But after scoring top four in damage and kills from lvl 10-12 in pvp I personally think I am enjoying the class as a whole. I mean; I might keep playing and find holes... But so far I am definitely enjoying myself. A lot.
You sound like me when I was lv12. : D!

I didn't switch out of AP until after I was 50. I still enjoy the playstyle, like I said, but it underperforms. I didn't know this for a long time, of course, as I had no other experiences to compare it to.

I'm not hating, and if you look at what I wrote, I tried to be very clear about exactly why I felt it underperforms. You can definitely make it work for you, but like others have said.. you could probably do better w/ another spec.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Agooz's Avatar


Agooz
03.14.2012 , 06:48 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by DamienHelzcoming View Post
Hate on it all you want. I am no pro or anything...
But after scoring top four in damage and kills from lvl 10-12 in pvp I personally think I am enjoying the class as a whole. I mean; I might keep playing and find holes... But so far I am definitely enjoying myself. A lot.
Ok you are basically a plain Bounty Hunter, not even a dps or tank, let alone an Advanced prototype. You have 1-3 points in any given tree. I am not even sure what you are talking about? Are you saying that you are enjoying the bounty hunter class in general? then great, because it IS an awesome class. Both the ST and Pyro trees are very solid. This whole thread is about the middle tree, which honestly you still dont have 0 experience in yet.

DamienHelzcoming's Avatar


DamienHelzcoming
03.14.2012 , 07:18 PM | #24
I enjoy the concept of what I am to become. A close range dps. I just for some reason do not enjoy playing with sabers in this game. It is too twitchy for my tastes. EDIT: I find it a bit sad I don't get one of those Gatling guns as imperial.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.14.2012 , 07:34 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by DamienHelzcoming View Post
I enjoy the concept of what I am to become. A close range dps. I just for some reason do not enjoy playing with sabers in this game. It is too twitchy for my tastes. EDIT: I find it a bit sad I don't get one of those Gatling guns as imperial.
You're going to be a close-range dps no matter which tree you choose, don't worry about that. : )
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Mapex's Avatar


Mapex
03.14.2012 , 08:56 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Bobinator View Post
I kinda enjoyed this spec in pve...because I dont PvP....everyone here is probably talking about it in pvp.


But kids will be kids...OH IT SUCKS BECAUSE IT FEELS AWKWARD OH ITS TERRIBLE AND ANYONE USING IT IS A STUPID BUTTFACE. I wish someone plays an Adv. Prototype and comes up with an amazing guide how to play to wipe these smirks off the faces of people that bash **** because ITS TOO HARD I DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY IT!
It's really not hard to play at all. People just prefer big numbers and faceroll so they hate on it.

For instance, people should really be doing a 5/34/2 build for PvP, not the 8/31/2 that is suggested. 9% Aim is nice but means nothing if you are dead due to missing mitigation or if you can't control your enemies because of 10 more seconds on Electro Dart.

It's very similar to playing AP in PvE except with more liberal use of Carbonize (use it to force enemies to pop their CC breaker so then you can Electro Dart for 4 seconds....allowing for all ticks from a 5x Flamethrower channel).
Streamlining Cover to be More User-Friendly and Intuitive
Improving the Adv. Prototype/Tactics Tree
Imperial: Mapex (PT) | Jerro (Sorcerer) | Khallus (SM) | Vinegarstrokes (Operative)
Republic: Mapekz (GS) | Khallas (JG) | Ammon (Shadow) | Bobbumman (Commando)

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.14.2012 , 09:04 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Mapex View Post
It's really not hard to play at all. People just prefer big numbers and faceroll so they hate on it.

For instance, people should really be doing a 5/34/2 build for PvP, not the 8/31/2 that is suggested. 9% Aim is nice but means nothing if you are dead due to missing mitigation or if you can't control your enemies because of 10 more seconds on Electro Dart.
The Electro Dart cd talent is one of the more negligible ones, imo. It's really very rare that I don't have Cryo ready if Electro Dart is on cd, unless I've just burned both on a healer or something. Advanced Tools and Hitman are incredible, however.

Also, can we please stop pretending that AP is any more faceroll than Pyro. You are not part of some sort of exclusive "omg, I play AP because I'm skilled" club; the spec is every bit as faceroll as Pyro. Probably moreso because you have a get out of jail free card every 30 seconds that makes kiting laughably easy, as well as running away from opponents and trolling sorcs/mercs.

Also, being able to utilize FT successfully (against one opponent, at least) once a minute is kind of a gimmick for damage. Do you really want to compare that to what Pyro or ST is bringing to the table?
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Mapex's Avatar


Mapex
03.14.2012 , 09:14 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
The Electro Dart cd talent is one of the more negligible ones, imo. It's really very rare that I don't have Cryo ready if Electro Dart is on cd, unless I've just burned both on a healer or something. Advanced Tools and Hitman are incredible, however.

Also, can we please stop pretending that AP is any more faceroll than Pyro. You are not part of some sort of exclusive "omg, I play AP because I'm skilled" club; the spec is every bit as faceroll as Pyro. Probably moreso because you have a get out of jail free card every 30 seconds that makes kiting laughably easy, as well as running away from opponents and trolling sorcs/mercs.
10 seconds on a 4 second CC that is used to let you unleash a +100% damage Flamethrower is very important. Once you get used to the 50 second Electro Dart CD and you spec out of it, the 10 second difference becomes very noticeable, especially since AP lacks CC outside of Carbonize, ED, and Grapple.

And it's not that AP is for pros and PyroTech is for easy mode kiddies. What I meant to say is that when people get used to something that is straightforward to grasp (such as PyroTech which is all about maximizing Rail Shot) that it can be difficult to understand how another playstyle works if it isn't as clear (AP has no similar focus on any one ability the way PyroTech does). While I'm an AP advocate, I've played every spec of the BH through multiple stages of beta and now on live; I love all the specs and have no ill will towards any of them.

I will say this again because so many people keep trashing on it unfairly: AP is a VERY GOOD spec.

Is it more than 90% as good as PyroTech? No.
Is it worse than 80% as good as PyroTech, though? No.
Do you get to hear an epic laugh on your powerful procs? No.
Will it become overpowered if it receives some minor tweaks? No.
But does it need a COMPLETE redesign and overhaul? Hell no.

The AP spec needs just a few number tweaks (and I bet you that's all we're truly going to see in 1.2 anyway) and it will perform just fine. These tweaks may provide a slightly lower barrier to entry so the focus of the tree becomes more clear, especially to newer players.
Streamlining Cover to be More User-Friendly and Intuitive
Improving the Adv. Prototype/Tactics Tree
Imperial: Mapex (PT) | Jerro (Sorcerer) | Khallus (SM) | Vinegarstrokes (Operative)
Republic: Mapekz (GS) | Khallas (JG) | Ammon (Shadow) | Bobbumman (Commando)

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.14.2012 , 09:36 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Mapex View Post
10 seconds on a 4 second CC that is used to let you unleash a +100% damage Flamethrower is very important. Once you get used to the 50 second Electro Dart CD and you spec out of it, the 10 second difference becomes very noticeable, especially since AP lacks CC outside of Carbonize, ED, and Grapple.

And it's not that AP is for pros and PyroTech is for easy mode kiddies. What I meant to say is that when people get used to something that is straightforward to grasp (such as PyroTech which is all about maximizing Rail Shot) that it can be difficult to understand how another playstyle works if it isn't as clear (AP has no similar focus on any one ability the way PyroTech does). While I'm an AP advocate, I've played every spec of the BH through multiple stages of beta and now on live; I love all the specs and have no ill will towards any of them.

I will say this again because so many people keep trashing on it unfairly: AP is a VERY GOOD spec.

Is it more than 90% as good as PyroTech? No.
Is it worse than 80% as good as PyroTech, though? No.
Do you get to hear an epic laugh on your powerful procs? No.
Will it become overpowered if it receives some minor tweaks? No.
But does it need a COMPLETE redesign and overhaul? Hell no.

The AP spec needs just a few number tweaks (and I bet you that's all we're truly going to see in 1.2 anyway) and it will perform just fine. These tweaks may provide a slightly lower barrier to entry so the focus of the tree becomes more clear, especially to newer players.
I just don't agree, I guess. I leveled as AP and played as a lot of different variations before finally settling on the 2/13/26 spec that I'm currently playing. In an earlier post, I mention how I've played as both Pyro and AP a good deal; I'm not making uninformed judgments about the tree.

I did actually start out very used to the 10 second reduction on Electro Dart and then dropped it later. It took some getting used to, but I don't feel the talent is all that clutch. I include it in my list of "nice to have"s, but not a gamebreaker, y'know?

I definitely don't dislike AP, but I do believe there are fundamental flaws in the tree. It's dependence on run speed instead of snares hampers its ability to stay on target. HO helps this, but the giant glowing yellow gear just screams for people to burn their stuns on you.

Its dependence on Flamethrower, which is an incredibly iffy skill to use (melee range, non-targeted channel that people can just walk out of) unless you're willing to burn one of your admittedly limited CCs on damage instead of control.

The tree lacks any real on-demand burst moves to kill people, and while steady damage is nice, it's not what's going to kill a healer. That's actually what made me start to look elsewhere; all the control in the world wasn't going to help if I didn't have the extra oomph to kill someone when necessary.

I'm not saying it needs the exact same mechanics as the other trees, but the mechanics in place right now are fundamentally flawed and it really hurts AP's viability.

It can work, but most likely, if you're doing well as AP, you could find a spec that does even better in one of the other trees. I sure did, but that's just me obviously.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Xsorus's Avatar


Xsorus
03.14.2012 , 09:51 PM | #30
AP's problem isn't damage as in Damage over time, the build itself actually does really good damage.. You're going to hit hard with AP, it's got excellent mobility and it is beefier then Pyro..

However....AP doesn't have on demand burst...Immolate hits pretty much the same as TD, However your rail shot is going to be weaker, and you can't make them flow together like Pyro can.

I suppose you could use Explosive Dart, but then that ability just frankly hits like *** so it's not really worth it.

If it had another burst ability comparable to say TD that you could string together similar to Pyro, it'd be pretty good actually...

Right now the line is basically there if ya wanna be a beefy DPS (run Ion instead of AP's Cylinder)