For one you guys are missing the point on rapid shots.... You use FB when you need to apply DoT and snare, if all this is applied, rapid shots is the perfect filler. You will never over heat.

 

As for my friend who is in the PTS..... the only thing that has changed is we cant do back to back RS anymore, and proccing a RS happens fast and consistently once the 6 second cd is up. In all honesty, if you pay attention to your cds you will probably never notice a difference other then you will not have back to back RS's anymore, and you will always have a RS every 6-8 seconds.

 

On a side note, the new WZ is kinda like a smaller version of Civil War, but fast past and more fun *shrugs

 

P.S. The Merc arsenal nerf actually produces better dps then pre 1.2. The healing spec got kicked in the nuts though.

 

Sorc healing got nerfed but is still pretty good, just have to be more "skilled"

 

I was told more, but I don't remember it all.

Edited March 18, 2012 by MiZrYdj

if you pay attention to your cds you will probably never notice a difference other then you will not have back to back RS's anymore, and you will always have a RS every 6-8 seconds.

 

lol absolute BS. This is a HUGE nerf, period.

lol absolute BS. This is a HUGE nerf, period.

 

Then rage quit before you even play the changes..... you seem like that type.

Freezing account, this is ********. No self heals no utility to avoid death, only 25% shield. PT pyro will be the weakest class ingame.

Vanguard here.

 

"On paper" this looks like an attempt to nerf the burst in PVP that only will gimp the sustained DPS in PVE. In PVP you can get a similar burst by using other attacks and popping cool-downs, while PVE will suffer a lot more because of the decline in ammo generation.

 

I won't judge it before I have tested it, though. Maybe BioWare actually know what they are doing. If the they don't, then it's likely that I will un-sub. Make or break time!

Then rage quit before you even play the changes..... you seem like that type.

 

Another wrong assumption. Keep trying.

Just because someone totally disagrees with you does make them a raging maniac. What it is it that you do not get after tons of posts with regards to the change??

1) The dps is decreased, by a decent amount (which imo, that alone would not have bothered me)

2) completely messes up our heat management, a tree that was already suffering from heat management.

3) completely destroys the element of fun in the pyro tree. People who played pyro for a long time, really enjoyed the chaotic and random nature of its mechanics. For a few sec you can be godly, and others just banging your head on the keyboard.

 

And the absolutely worst part is that we have NO OTHER option. AP is still trash and will remain trash as long as they make these insignificant changes. So now we have a trash dps tree, and another one heading that way.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Agooz

Another wrong assumption. Keep trying.

Just because someone totally disagrees with you does make them a raging maniac. What it is it that you do not get after tons of posts with regards to the change??

1) The dps is decreased, by a decent amount (which imo, that alone would not have bothered me)

2) completely messes up our heat management, a tree that was already suffering from heat management.

3) completely destroys the element of fun in the pyro tree. People who played pyro for a long time, really enjoyed the chaotic and random nature of its mechanics. For a few sec you can be godly, and others just banging your head on the keyboard.

 

And the absolutely worst part is that we have NO OTHER option. AP is still trash and will remain trash as long as they make these insignificant changes. So now we have a trash dps tree, and another one heading that way.

 

20 of my guildmates were accepted into the PTS, several of them powertechs. I've interrogated them extensively. lol They also have combat logs now on the PTS so they are testing this and comparing numbers with all the other classes.

 

I've been lvl 50 PT for over 2 months and PvP way too much. I know the class. I've also leveled every other class to 30 just so I can understand how the mechanics work in a hands on situation.

 

I'm not going to try and debate this anymore with people that just read the notes. I would rather discuss this with people that have read the notes and actually have hand on experience testing these changes.

 

Just keep this in mind though, how many RS's do you need to kill most classes (not including tanks/healers ) All champ gear, modded for power/surge.... 3 railshots is all I need to kill or have someone at 10% hp or less.

 

How quickly will you be able to get the 1st 3 RS's with this change in 1.2?

Edited March 18, 2012 by MiZrYdj

20 of my guildmates were accepted into the PTS, several of them powertechs. I've interrogated them extensively. lol They also have combat logs now on the PTS so they are testing this and comparing numbers with all the other classes.

 

I've been lvl 50 PT for over 2 months and PvP way too much. I know the class. I've also leveled every other class to 30 just so I can understand how the mechanics work in a hands on situation.

 

I'm not going to try and debate this anymore with people that just read the notes. I would rather discuss this with people that have read the notes and actually have hand on experience testing these changes.

 

Just keep this in mind though, how many RS's do you need to kill most classes (not including tanks/healers ) All champ gear, modded for power/surge.... 3 railshots is all I need to kill or have someone at 10% hp or less.

 

How quickly will you be able to get the 1st 3 RS's with this change in 1.2?

 

My theory crafting aint the best atm, its either 10.5 or 12 seconds depending on if can open your rotation with a RS or not (your target is stunned or such)

 

Since you have done all this testing, and your guildies too, would care to enlighten me how the change will affect :

 

DPS

Heatmanagment

Sustained dps

Burst

 

Regards

Kothakk

Edited March 18, 2012 by Kothakk

My theory crafting aint the best atm, its either 10.5 or 12 seconds depending on if can open your rotation with a RS or not (your target is stunned or such)

 

Since you have done all this testing, and your guildies too, would care to enlighten me how the change will affect :

 

DPS

Heatmanagment

Sustained dps

Burst

 

Regards

Kothakk

 

BUT OMG YOU CANZ KILL EVERYTING WITH 3 5K RAILSHOT GUYZE

 

Just stop arguing with that guy. He's clearly too dense to realize that a 15% increase in proc chance is not significant enough to outset a 6 secs lockdown where nothing will proc.

 

Fortunately for me I have a lvl 50 marauder and a 50 sin standing by.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Krytycal

BUT OMG YOU CANZ KILL EVERYTING WITH 3 5K RAILSHOT GUYZE

 

Just stop arguing with that guy. He's clearly too dense to realize that a 15% increase in proc chance is not significant enough to outset a 6 secs lockdown where nothing will proc.

 

Fortunately for me I have a lvl 50 marauder and a 50 sin standing by.

 

Well Im not trolling and herp-derping. Im asking for straight up intel of the PTS rather than theorycrafted numbers.

My theory crafting aint the best atm, its either 10.5 or 12 seconds depending on if can open your rotation with a RS or not (your target is stunned or such)

 

Since you have done all this testing, and your guildies too, would care to enlighten me how the change will affect :

 

DPS

Heatmanagment

Sustained dps

Burst

 

Regards

Kothakk

 

I never got into the PTS, I was too damned lazy or dealing with my kid to go through the whole process. But plenty of my guildies did, and BW did not just pick some random noobs. That being said 3 of them are Powertechs, and I speak with them daily and hound them for testing information which they take seriously.

 

So is 10.5-12 seconds not a reasonable time to kill most classes? Seems to be that way now if you proc consistently like we will in 1.2

 

1/ DPS

PvE may see a drop in DPS hard to say at this point since they have been pvping mostly.

 

PvP DPS from what I understand neither increased or decreased, BW did a pretty damn good job at finding the middle of the two extremes we see now.

 

2/ Heat management

The way I play, it hasn't changed one bit. If I am 50% heat or higher I will ALWAYS weave in rapid shots. FB>Rapid Shots>FB. I never over heat, and I'm always top 2 in damage for what that's worth. If people are having overheat issues now, then they will in 1.2. When the proc is on its 6 sec CD, there is no reason to SPAM FB. Only to snare and apply DoT if they are not active. People here think I'm crazy, but rapid shots used even though it has lower damage then FB will net you better dps in the long run as you will never find your self stuck in heatlock.

 

 

3/ Sustained damage

Don't have much info on that will ask later today..... but considering we will without a doubt be proccing more constantly I dont see how it will be much different then now. If you dont manage your heat properly, well the sustained dps goes to hell (just like now). Just weave in rapid shots here and there and you will always be up to fire off that RS, just like now, and just like in 1.2.

 

4/ Burst

Our opening burst makes people cry now, and it will be the same in 1.2. We just wont be able to get back to back to back RS's which honestly is kinda lame to the opponent getting hit by it.

 

Crit with TD and 1st RS which is easy..... congrats! You just did more initial burst then any other class in the game.

Edited March 18, 2012 by MiZrYdj

The straight up intel is that for 4 global cool downs you can not proc a free rail shot from Prototype Particle Accelerator anymore. Used to be you could luck out and get one every other gcd from Rocket Punch and Flame Burst.

 

After that you will have a 45% chance from Flame Burst and a 60% chance from Rocket Punch. Still luck dependent so we'll say every 5 gcds' you can get a Rail Shot instead of every 3.

 

This will drop our single target dps by 10% at the very least. Bioware was not kidding when they said they were nerfing bounty hunter (troopers too unfortunately) and buffing everyone else (who uses a lightsaber).

 

What bothers me most about it is that they didn't even look at Advanced Prototype. Both sides, Trooper and Powertech, have been asking for changes to that tree and our concerns were ignored completely.

 

Also that they haven't even rectified the 4% difference between Bounty Hunter resource pools and Trooper resource pools.

 

This is just like the Swordmaster nerfs in Warhammer all over again and even less justification.

 

Basically it's ignoring the player base that plays the class, and listening to the people who don't play it or theorycrafting based off of numbers in war zones. In short, very poor development sense, and game devs really don't seem to like changing their minds about anything, ever, so the class concerns will probably keep being ignored.

I never got into the PTS, I was too damned lazy or dealing with my kid to go through the whole process. But plenty of my guildies did, and BW did not just pick some random noobs. That being said 3 of them are Powertechs, and I speak with them daily and hound them for testing information which they take seriously.

 

So is 10.5-12 seconds not a reasonable time to kill most classes? Seems to be that way now if you proc consistently like we will in 1.2

 

1/ DPS

PvE may see a drop in DPS hard to say at this point since they have been pvping mostly.

 

PvP DPS from what I understand neither increased or decreased, BW did a pretty damn good job at finding the middle of the two extremes we see now.

 

2/ Heat management

The way I play, it hasn't changed one bit. If I am 50% heat or higher I will ALWAYS weave in rapid shots. FB>Rapid Shots>FB. I never over heat, and I'm always top 2 in damage for what that's worth. If people are having overheat issues now, then they will in 1.2. When the proc is on its 6 sec CD, there is no reason to SPAM FB. Only to snare and apply DoT if they are not active. People here think I'm crazy, but rapid shots used even though it has lower damage then FB will net you better dps in the long run as you will never find your self stuck in heatlock.

 

 

3/ Sustained damage

Don't have much info on that will ask later today..... but considering we will without a doubt be proccing more constantly I dont see how it will be much different then now. If you dont manage your heat properly, well the sustained dps goes to hell. Just weave in rapid shots here and there and you will always be up to fire off that RS, just like now, and just like in 1.2.

 

4/ Burst

Our opening burst makes people cry now, and it will be the same in 1.2. We just wont be able to get back to back to back RS's which honestly is kinda lame to the opponent getting hit by it.

 

Crit with TD and 1st RS which is easy..... congrats! You just did more initial burst then any other class in the game.

 

Thanks for that intel. I've been looking for info like this allday long. And yes rapid shot is still key for not overheating, nice to see that havent changed in 1.2

 

Have your mates done any testing vs other classes? Im thinking specifically of the mara, just because I've seen (as most have) alot of threads regarding their buffs.

 

Thanks again for answering my questions

The straight up intel is that for 4 global cool downs you can not proc a free rail shot from Prototype Particle Accelerator anymore. Used to be you could luck out and get one every other gcd from Rocket Punch and Flame Burst.

 

After that you will have a 45% chance from Flame Burst and a 60% chance from Rocket Punch. Still luck dependent so we'll say every 5 gcds' you can get a Rail Shot instead of every 3.

 

This will drop our single target dps by 10% at the very least. Bioware was not kidding when they said they were nerfing bounty hunter (troopers too unfortunately) and buffing everyone else (who uses a lightsaber).

 

What bothers me most about it is that they didn't even look at Advanced Prototype. Both sides, Trooper and Powertech, have been asking for changes to that tree and our concerns were ignored completely.

 

Also that they haven't even rectified the 4% difference between Bounty Hunter resource pools and Trooper resource pools.

 

This is just like the Swordmaster nerfs in Warhammer all over again and even less justification.

 

Basically it's ignoring the player base that plays the class, and listening to the people who don't play it or theorycrafting based off of numbers in war zones. In short, very poor development sense, and game devs really don't seem to like changing their minds about anything, ever, so the class concerns will probably keep being ignored.

 

Poor swordmasters (I loved my WE ) ...

 

I just find it odd that the devs arent saying anything yet regarding how the testing has gone or such. But Im guessing Im just impatiencet (spelling?) for any kind of response. Hopefully they will open up more and give more raw data on whats happened sofar.

Thanks for that intel. I've been looking for info like this allday long. And yes rapid shot is still key for not overheating, nice to see that havent changed in 1.2

 

Have your mates done any testing vs other classes? Im thinking specifically of the mara, just because I've seen (as most have) alot of threads regarding their buffs.

 

Thanks again for answering my questions

 

I know for a fact they have been testing vs. other classes as 20 guild mates got into PTS. I didn't really discuss that with them yet, I will tonight though.

 

I do know that merc healing got kicked in the nuts, BUT the supposed arsenal nerf actually increased DPS apparently from what I remember them saying. Wasn't paying attention much to the Merc discussion as I don't play Merc.

 

I will definitely ask about the marauder changes and how it plays out with PT's.... of all the classes they are a pain in the ***.... We can easily drop them to 10% hp but once they pop their cds and pot up, we are in trouble.

 

PM me here if you want more intel, I'm not going to share anymore here as most of these people have already made up their minds on how they think it will work out.

i dont really care about MiZrYdj opinion since he thinks rapid shot does the same damage as fb and gcd is 1 second.

 

the only thing that needs to be known in test realms is when the lockout cd begins. if it begins after the fb the lockout will only be 2 gcd. If it begins when railshot fires it will be 3 gcd. if it begins after the railshot gcd then it will be 4 gcd..

 

add in the the average of 2 gcd needed to proc the rail shot and u will get a 4-6 gcd needed in 1.2 to proc vs the 3 gcd it is right now. also right now it has potential to fire again after 1 gcd whereas in 1.2 best case scenario it will take 3 gcd after ur railshot before u can do it again.

i dont really care about MiZrYdj opinion since he thinks rapid shot does the same damage as fb and gcd is 1 second.

 

the only thing that needs to be known in test realms is when the lockout cd begins. if it begins after the fb the lockout will only be 2 gcd. If it begins when railshot fires it will be 3 gcd. if it begins after the railshot gcd then it will be 4 gcd..

 

add in the the average of 2 gcd needed to proc the rail shot and u will get a 4-6 gcd needed in 1.2 to proc vs the 3 gcd it is right now. also right now it has potential to fire again after 1 gcd whereas in 1.2 best case scenario it will take 3 gcd after ur railshot before u can do it again.

 

Like I said, the damage is similar not the same...

and as stated before my GCD was inaccurate..... I have a 2 year old son and I'm a single daddy, people get tired and make mistakes. So what?

 

Anyways..... theory craft all you like. No PTS powertech combat log screenshots for you!

Edited March 18, 2012 by MiZrYdj

Like I said, the damage is similar not the same...

and as stated before my GCD was inaccurate..... I have a 2 year old son and I'm a single daddy, people get tired and make mistakes. So what?

 

Anyways..... theory craft all you like. No PTS powertech combat log screenshots for you!

 

I appreciate your effort to calm us but let's be honest, 6 seconds with an increased chance to proc particle accelerator is not gonna make things the same for us

 

Flame burst procs CGC, has a much bigger crit chance (tech attack) than rapid shots( Ranged attack). It does more damage than rapid shots, period.

 

We can still spam flame burst during the 6 seconds wait, but we will add heat and after the 6 seconds are gone we still have a random chance of getting a free railshot. They said they increased the chance but its still a chance, not a sure thing.

 

Not to mention we will probably stop using rocket punchs everytime its up, to save it for when the 6 seconds are over, further decreasing our dps.

 

Also say goodbye to incendiary missiles unless thermal sensor override is not on cooldown. 25 heat from IM will be tough to recover without spamming rapid shots and gimping your dps. I`m saying that for those long boss fights.

Pretty much. This timer is wrecking this spec and people don't realize it.

I appreciate your effort to calm us but let's be honest, 6 seconds with an increased chance to proc particle accelerator is not gonna make things the same for us

 

Flame burst procs CGC, has a much bigger crit chance (tech attack) than rapid shots( Ranged attack). It does more damage than rapid shots, period.

 

We can still spam flame burst during the 6 seconds wait, but we will add heat and after the 6 seconds are gone we still have a random chance of getting a free railshot. They said they increased the chance but its still a chance, not a sure thing.

 

Not to mention we will probably stop using rocket punchs everytime its up, to save it for when the 6 seconds are over, further decreasing our dps.

 

Also say goodbye to incendiary missiles unless thermal sensor override is not on cooldown. 25 heat from IM will be tough to recover without spamming rapid shots and gimping your dps. I`m saying that for those long boss fights.

 

From a PvE standpoint, I don't really have an opinion as of yet, as I have not got any intel from guild members on that yet. For PvE our long boss fight dps may have been reduced... game breaking into uselessness, I highly doubt it, but I can't form an opinion on something until I see it tested, other wise it's all just theory.

 

Everything I've been saying has been based on PvP gameplay. My opinions are based off of data from guildies that are testing Pyro PT's on PTS as we speak. The only thing that has changed in PvP is no more back to back RS's..... and that proc increase may not seem significant on paper, but in real world testing it apparently is. They are proccing within 2-3 attacks consistently.

 

Talk to some good marauders and ask them how often annihilate (with its 66% chance to proc rupture/also a 6 sec cd) actually procs within the 1st strike. You just might be surprised.

 

Why people hate rapid shots is beyond me..... I'd rather throw down some dps with no heat build up them SPAM an ability which will lead to heatlock and you will end up using rapid shots even MORE while overheated then you would if you just weaved it in between certain abilities. If you cant proc a RS, wth is wrong with FB>rapid shots>FB>rapid shots until you CAN proc railshot? If you spammed FB the entire 6 sec cd to proc another RS, you will have little to no resources to even attempt to proc that RS.

 

Honestly, I have been using rapid shots in this way in pvp since I hit 50 2 months ago. I never over heat unless I'm trying to burn a healer down, and I always top the damage even though that isn't my goal. If you guys are overheating now in pvp, you will also in 1.2... but that's your choice

I've listed several other things with this change that truely cripples the spec. It's not just the heat management now, it's about still fighting RNG while having a cooldown on the proc, it's about railshots abiltiy to be deflected, dodged, parried, etc, it's about procs getting wasted when rial shot is up, i.e. flame bursting an opponent running away with low hp and having it proc.

20 of my guildmates were accepted into the PTS, several of them powertechs. I've interrogated them extensively. lol They also have combat logs now on the PTS so they are testing this and comparing numbers with all the other classes.

 

I've been lvl 50 PT for over 2 months and PvP way too much. I know the class. I've also leveled every other class to 30 just so I can understand how the mechanics work in a hands on situation.

 

I'm not going to try and debate this anymore with people that just read the notes. I would rather discuss this with people that have read the notes and actually have hand on experience testing these changes.

 

Just keep this in mind though, how many RS's do you need to kill most classes (not including tanks/healers ) All champ gear, modded for power/surge.... 3 railshots is all I need to kill or have someone at 10% hp or less.

 

How quickly will you be able to get the 1st 3 RS's with this change in 1.2?

 

Apparently you didnt bother to read my arguments and just jumped on my back for disagreeing with you.

I said, I do not mind a dps decrease. They could have went about it in a hundred other way, without messing up our heat management, and destroying the concept of the tree.

Even if the overall dps has not changed, which is definitely not the case, they still ruined the fun factor and exciting element of the tree.