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SW needs to stop bringing the Dead back to Life

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
SW needs to stop bringing the Dead back to Life

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
11.13.2019 , 09:51 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
I agree that/hope that Valkorian is done with. After having such a lengthy storyline with him in KOTFE/KOTET it wasn't exactly exciting to hear that the next bit of story teased at the end of Onslaught with Kira & Scourge is a result of Valkorian.

With Ossus & Onslaught it seemed like they were trying to distance themselves from KOTFE/KOTET & trying to get back to the faction storylines, rebuilding things that the war had left in ruins, etc, but that tease was a very "ugh" sort of moment. Hopefully it's only a self-contained single mission like a Flashpoint.
Strangely enough I do agree with this somewhat !!

Hang on a sec before you fry the Ol Buzzard ( side note here... that don't even smell good either just kind of FYI .. )

The whole meeting with Kira and Scourge story is a bit on the weak side ... but OK I guess. Being essentially comatose for that time was as good an explanation as any. ALLLL of that aside I wouldn't be surprised if Malgus isn't tied in with this whole Tenebrae / dark side twisted evil back to life thing one way or another.

This is essentially the same thing that SW The Rise of Skywalker has done.

Frankly Disney all but screwed up the entire saga with the last movie ( my personal opinion is that it was one of the worst on record) . Bringing back Palpatine and the rest of the old original saga is an attempt to salvage the series.. again just my opinion.

Hopefully they will get it right and Palpatine will die for good this time !
Hopefully the story of Tenebrae will end once and for all and yes I agree. One story (perhaps two part story at the most ) and the last of the "immortal emperor" is done !!

Additional note: for me personally I liked KotFE / ET for the most part. But it was long over due to say good bye to the emperor and his quest.

Second additional note: the idea of the "Force Awakens" and the last of the Jedi were not bad ideas... just poorly told stories. Things change. The Star Wars saga in order for it to continue would need to change. That is inevitable .. but it seems to me that Disney had (has) more of an agenda of some sort to prove that the franchise was theirs. And for some reason that seemed to overshadow the rest.

Final additional note: yes I plan on seeing the next movie. I'm hoping that they got the ending done and that they got it right !
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Suzsi's Avatar


Suzsi
11.13.2019 , 10:01 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkEcIipse View Post
Yeah we can thank George Lucas for In bringing back Darth Maul he made it official, lol and possibly Imhotep's catchphrase, "Death is only the beginning". But Sidious should remain dead... you know because of the chosen one... Disney bad..

Then again I think Boba Fett survived so... maybe I am guilty.
The EU books were also considered cannon, it wasn't the first time it happened. Force ghosts use people a lot in the books, take them over etc.

-

~~ Always looking for more Theron Shan and Aric romance. ~~

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
11.13.2019 , 10:04 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Suzsi View Post
Defeat doesnt always mean death. Unless you see them dead and bleeding at your feet and they AREN'T a force user with tricks than they are defeated, not nescessarily dead.

Been that way in SW since forever, people just can't see the difference between defeat and perma death.

I'm sure plenty of enemies thought the same about our toons too.

As for the Emp no matter what name he has I don't think he can truly die, especially not in this era - we are years away from Palp defeat.
Hmmm....

I guess with the "force" being what it is suppose to be that there might be some degree of "truth" in that view ..(definitely according to SW legends . etc)

Sooo Let me update my position just a tad !!

This time for Tenebrae it needs to stick.. The expression on his face the utter shock that it is actually happening he buys the farm and becomes worm food !! Or maybe turns into pixie dust ( or something cosmic if that fits better )

Dead ! done !

Oh just to clarify... if this response comes across as something negative to your reply... I'll apologize in advance.

Yes... you are right !

( but I would still prefer the eternal emperor to not be so eternal but rather dead !)
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DarkEcIipse's Avatar


DarkEcIipse
11.13.2019 , 10:11 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
1: You complaining about complaining = you hypocrite.

2: Really, what is it that I'm making up?

3: No, more often than not I explain why something is the way it is. For example if I say something like "they're limited by the amount of SAG actors they can work with." that's just how the industry works, and has for years now. That's not something Bioware can change.

4: Says the hypocrite with an ego trying to prove something.
1: I am not complaining that you're complaining.... I am saying don't gate keep. You're gate keeping by telling him he shouldn't post those topics because you find them stupid. ="LIAR!"

2: Do you really need to ask that?

3: Ah there here is. You know you should have went with the name "Darth KnowItAll".

4: I don't need to prove something that you already did. I am sure whoever you were arguing/gatekeeping will deal with it themselves that is if they haven't ignored you already.

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
11.13.2019 , 10:19 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by OlBuzzard View Post
The whole meeting with Kira and Scourge story is a bit on the weak side ... but OK I guess. Being essentially comatose for that time was as good an explanation as any. ALLLL of that aside I wouldn't be surprised if Malgus isn't tied in with this whole Tenebrae / dark side twisted evil back to life thing one way or another.
If it's a FP I feel like the enemy/boss is going just be some giant ball of force corruption. I think it'll be a "spooky ship" situation that's filled with enemy terrors. Monsters/People that were created as a result of the dark energy that resulted in Tenebrae's body being destroyed. Think Doom, Event Horizon, Resident Evil, etc, but with enemies born/created out of the energy that spread from Tenebrae's body.

Quote:
Additional note: for me personally I liked KotFE / ET for the most part. But it was long over due to say good bye to the emperor and his quest.
It's cool that they tried something different with KOTFE & tried to make it this thing that was more epic than the previous expansions, however playing through it across multiple characters can be a real slog.

For all the complaints people had/have about Rise of The Hut Cartel or Onslaught being short I feel like that sort of thing works in SWTOR's favor when you're playing through the game/story with multiple characters, especially if you're playing through everything again on a new character. 2.0, 3.0, & 6.0 are more their own separate stories that feel like chapters. KOTFE & KOTET are two expansions that are one singular story that's the same for every class. If you're somebody that didn't like KOTFE/KOTET it's always a huge commitment going back through those expansions, more so than any prior expansion or Onslaught.

Suzsi's Avatar


Suzsi
11.13.2019 , 10:22 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by OlBuzzard View Post
Hmmm....

I guess with the "force" being what it is suppose to be that there might be some degree of "truth" in that view ..(definitely according to SW legends . etc)

Sooo Let me update my position just a tad !!

This time for Tenebrae it needs to stick.. The expression on his face the utter shock that it is actually happening he buys the farm and becomes worm food !! Or maybe turns into pixie dust ( or something cosmic if that fits better )

Dead ! done !

Oh just to clarify... if this response comes across as something negative to your reply... I'll apologize in advance.

Yes... you are right !

( but I would still prefer the eternal emperor to not be so eternal but rather dead !)
See one of the problems with SWTOR was the fact that the story was never really in biowares hands to begin with.

Originally George Lucas had a very specific vision and direction for the games story -- certain characters and what not couldn't be killed because he had future plans for them and a very specific outlook for the games direction ( story wise ).

Now? Who the hell knows if they are still following George Lucas' original vision, Disney's, their own or something in between. It's entirely possible there are many things in the story still out of biowares hands. We may never know going forwards which direction they've had to take - the original one, another one or their own - either way the change over in the middle of SWTOR's lifetime has no doubt had a significant impact in the story direction of the game.

-

~~ Always looking for more Theron Shan and Aric romance. ~~

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
11.13.2019 , 10:37 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkEcIipse View Post
1: I am not complaining that you're complaining....
Wow, you're still doing it & you don't even realize it.

Quote:
I am saying don't gate keep.
You're telling me what not to do based off what I'm telling someone not to do. How are you not a hypocrite in that situation?

You can't say "What I'm saying is a good thing & what you're saying is a bad thing." because you'd be an even bigger hypocrite.

Quote:
You're gate keeping by telling him he shouldn't post those topics because you find them stupid. ="LIAR!"
No, I'm telling him to maybe stop for a moment & think about what it is he's posting instead of just posting it the moment it pops in his head just because he has the ability to do so.

Quote:
2: Do you really need to ask that?
Given that it's something you're claiming that while not providing any examples it's a pretty easy way to highlight how ridiculous you (too) are being.

Quote:
3: Ah there here is. You know you should have went with the name "Darth KnowItAll".
So do I know it all or am I making it up? You seem to have a hard time keeping track of your lies, on top of continuing to show yourself to be a hypocrite.

Quote:
4: I don't need to prove something that you already did.
No see you don't get it, when I say prove something, I'm saying you're trying to prove something about yourself. Suggesting that you feel you need to do what you're doing because of some prior experience. Somebody made you look bad, ignorant, etc, & now you have a raging bias as result of anyone you feel might be doing the same.

Quote:
I am sure whoever you were arguing/gatekeeping will deal with it themselves
Why are you all of sudden acting like you don't know it was the TC?

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
11.13.2019 , 11:23 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Suzsi View Post
See one of the problems with SWTOR was the fact that the story was never really in biowares hands to begin with.

Originally George Lucas had a very specific vision and direction for the games story -- certain characters and what not couldn't be killed because he had future plans for them and a very specific outlook for the games direction ( story wise ).

Now? Who the hell knows if they are still following George Lucas' original vision, Disney's, their own or something in between. It's entirely possible there are many things in the story still out of biowares hands. We may never know going forwards which direction they've had to take - the original one, another one or their own - either way the change over in the middle of SWTOR's lifetime has no doubt had a significant impact in the story direction of the game.
I agree with ya ! I do think this last story was better received... back to OP ! I understand the frustration that some folks have with the whole view of life / death and that sort of thing.

I also agree that at some point even the worst of the bad / evil characters meet their end !

Granted that the Jedi view of " there is no death only the force" .. might be their end. But even that finality is a different "existence" than some of the ideas we've seen presented with Tenebrae.

At any rate. IMO.. this is one discussion that could really go off on at least a dozen tangents.. Sooo with that I'll just say GN catch ya later !
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Goreshaga's Avatar


Goreshaga
11.14.2019 , 02:52 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Obvious View Post
If it's a FP I feel like the enemy/boss is going just be some giant ball of force corruption. I think it'll be a "spooky ship" situation that's filled with enemy terrors. Monsters/People that were created as a result of the dark energy that resulted in Tenebrae's body being destroyed. Think Doom, Event Horizon, Resident Evil, etc, but with enemies born/created out of the energy that spread from Tenebrae's body.
Well, as long as they don't make that part an operation, i'm fine with it.

I'd feel seriously insulted if i was unable to end the guy with my JK who has worked very hard for that only because it'd be locked behind group content. Or if they make it an op, they need to give a solo counterpart as well, like they did for Revan in SoR.
A FP would be fine though, even if i'm not a big fan of FP format as you have to have enough time to do everything at once, which is not always my case (took me 3 days to finish Onslaught as i had time only for half of Onderon the first day, then end of Onderon + part of Meh-sha, and then end of Mek-sha+Corellia).

But yeah i imagine something siimilar to you for that part something where you have to fight some kind of zombies on the ship, and probably a really creepy Satele as well.
In need of more Arcann, Aric, Torian, Vector, and a lot, lot, lot more Theron.
There's nothing like geting too much Theron

My characters

Darth-Obvious's Avatar


Darth-Obvious
11.14.2019 , 04:10 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Goreshaga View Post
Well, as long as they don't make that part an operation, i'm fine with it.

I'd feel seriously insulted if i was unable to end the guy with my JK who has worked very hard for that only because it'd be locked behind group content. Or if they make it an op, they need to give a solo counterpart as well, like they did for Revan in SoR.
A FP would be fine though, even if i'm not a big fan of FP format as you have to have enough time to do everything at once, which is not always my case (took me 3 days to finish Onslaught as i had time only for half of Onderon the first day, then end of Onderon + part of Meh-sha, and then end of Mek-sha+Corellia).

But yeah i imagine something siimilar to you for that part something where you have to fight some kind of zombies on the ship, and probably a really creepy Satele as well.
I don't think we'll see more Ops that you need to play in order to understand the main story. It feels like that sort of thing ended with the Dread Masters. I think the dev team since then has realized that not everyone plays Ops & as a result aren't designing content like that anymore. I mean in order to see the Dread Masters story play out in full you had to do the mission where they get released on Belsavis, multiple Ops, then Oricon story which starts as a single player story but ends with you having to do two different Ops to get the complete story.

I feel like putting lots of story-heavy cutscenes in the Flashpoints was also not a great move. It's awesome that the FPs have significant story content to them however the problem is that not everyone in the group is going to want to watch the cutscenes, especially if they've run through the content multiple times already. Every time you group up is potentially somebody's first time seeing that story & that person should be able to see/watch the cutscenes, but you've also potentially got 3 other people spacebaring through the cutscene looking at a frozen screen that says "Waiting On Other Players" which isn't great.