Ran into this occasionally before RotHC, but now its become almost every single time 55 SM Ops pops a Que this happens.

 

A guild is trying to use it to get a specific person from their Guild in for the Comms, and kicking every person that the Que puts in until they get that person. If they are trying to pull a DPS this can be a lot of people they are tossing out for no other reason than not being in their guild.

 

Most know and don't care, and some don't know of what this does to the PUGs, or just people in other guilds, they are abusing.

 

This triggers a 15 minute lockout on the person they kick, and often on multiple people as they play roulette with group finder.

 

Most of the answers I've gotten bringing this up to the guild leaders has been "its just 15 minutes go do something else" or some variation of that.

 

Apparently some guilds have gotten so insular they actually believe it is okay to treat others like this for a few comms.

 

Please either remove the lockout from this particular mode, or remove the comms bonus and increase the weeklies accordingly to discourage this rampant abuse of other players.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Jubilee

Are you sure that's the reason? Why would they do that when they can just queue the whole group of 8 in Group Finder? Edited July 19, 2013 by ceazare

If they are wanting a specific person to join, say a in progress Ops, the person won't be able to get the comms unless they queue for inprogress.

 

Also, they may be trying to specifically get either S&V or TfB with both available to be queued into. Take 7, have the 8th solo queue, you can see WHAT you get before it auto pops since it isn't a full group.

If they are wanting a specific person to join, say a in progress Ops, the person won't be able to get the comms unless they queue for inprogress.

 

Also, they may be trying to specifically get either S&V or TfB with both available to be queued into. Take 7, have the 8th solo queue, you can see WHAT you get before it auto pops since it isn't a full group.

 

Its what I do for flashpoints as well.

What a bunch of a*****les.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there's much it can be done to prevent it. At most, if we know that when it happens you can like send a screenshot/report with the log showing how it went down and then maybe those guilds/players are penalized, well ... that might help

Eventually they'll be on everyone's ignore list and they won't have to worry about nonguildies joining. It will probably have some undesirable effects on the guild when people get their revenge.

 

I think it might have happened to me now that I think about it, I have been kicked before a flashpoint started.

Eventually they'll be on everyone's ignore list and they won't have to worry about nonguildies joining. It will probably have some undesirable effects on the guild when people get their revenge.

 

I think it might have happened to me now that I think about it, I have been kicked before a flashpoint started.

 

it will backfire when that guild tries to recruit or actually need others for ops in the future. i have seen this happen in other mmos and made sure my guild has a blacklist of such players and guilds in this mmo too.

This is on Bioware just as much, as there never has been a system to backfill a specific player to where they can also get commendation rewards. As much as it sucks for those getting booted, it's obvious that most guilds don't want to be at the mercy of group finder pugs of wildly varying skill levels, and want to keep the loot to themselves. People DC, have to go, etc., and there needs to be system to invite a specific person and still have them get rewards, because as it stands, the current system doesn't work for solo queuers or guilds.

The guy above is correct, its a wicked pain in the neck to fill a lost player if you used group finder for the comms

 

IMO you should be able to replace a spot with a friend and they should get what ever reward is provided to the group.

 

It is a definiate pain in the neck the way it is.

The guy above is correct, its a wicked pain in the neck to fill a lost player if you used group finder for the comms

 

IMO you should be able to replace a spot with a friend and they should get what ever reward is provided to the group.

 

It is a definiate pain in the neck the way it is.

 

Well, clearly BW designed the group finder so you play with random people and they reward you for that. Allowing to invite specific people will be clearly against it that idea. If the ability to invite people was available I think kicking with no good reasons would be even more abused than it is now.

You don't wanna take chances with pugs, then go to the instance "manually". You can invite whoever you want anytime you want.

Well, clearly BW designed the group finder so you play with random people and they reward you for that. Allowing to invite specific people will be clearly against it that idea. If the ability to invite people was available I think kicking with no good reasons would be even more abused than it is now.

You don't wanna take chances with pugs, then go to the instance "manually". You can invite whoever you want anytime you want.

 

Yeah, pretty much agree. If you could manually invite people it would defeat the purpose of even using group finder at all.

 

Even in other MMOs that have a random instance thing, those manually invited after it's started don't get the group finder rewards.

So much hate here. I dont get it.

 

Lets get the facts here why people are angry:

- People might get a lockout

- Its just pissing people off who waited long in the queue

 

Well I can reassure you ... just for you guys i tried it out. This morning I queued for several fps. After joining I asked them to votekick me, which they did. after votekick I DID NOT received a lockout. If you get votekicked by someone that tries to get a friend in you wont be hurt at all with a lockouttimer

 

The idea of groupfinder is NOT to play with random, thats a side-effect. The REAL idea is that it SPEEDS up the process to get groups together. In order to make people queue bioware gives out bonusses like the comms.

 

As you might have figured out I'm using the groupfinder to queue with 4 or 8 friends for the comms, sometimes we fill up 1 or 2 with pugs. At times it can happen that someone dc's and can't re-enter anymore. Then we kick people if we get them. If we get someone multiple times we place him on the ignore list temperaroly to not bother him to much (hey ... no lockout timer I guess ).

 

Why are people angry about it? My guess is that it has more to do with waiting in the queue for long times, after finally getting a pop you get votekicked because they want to play with friends. Annoing? Yes of course. Abusing the system? Maybe. Having to endure a 15 minute pauze? NO!!

Be fair about it. If you have a friend that comes online and you need a replacement, who won't choose for that friend?

Well I can reassure you ... just for you guys i tried it out. This morning I queued for several fps. After joining I asked them to votekick me, which they did. after votekick I DID NOT received a lockout. If you get votekicked by someone that tries to get a friend in you wont be hurt at all with a lockouttimer

Votekick removes lockout, but when premade queues trough group finder, leader tends to keep power to simply kick people, and those kicks do cause lockout. So your testing is irrelevant.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Elear

Why is there actually so much greed over these Group Finder rewards ?

Design flaw. In other games with group finder, you can manually invite people as a replacement after the group/raid has formed and someone has left or disconnected.

The idea of groupfinder is NOT to play with random, thats a side-effect. The REAL idea is that it SPEEDS up the process to get groups together. In order to make people queue bioware gives out bonusses like the comms.

And why do you think, while in a group finder group, devs made it so you CANNOT invite specifc people (as in not random people) ? Just for teh lulz ?

 

It speeds up the process to get groups together with random people. Whether they are your guildies or friends, irrelevant.

 

Group finder is about random. Random content (either flashpoint or op) and random people. you dont want the random, then you know what to do.

Why are people angry about it? My guess is that it has more to do with waiting in the queue for long times, after finally getting a pop you get votekicked because they want to play with friends. Annoing? Yes of course. Abusing the system? Maybe. Having to endure a 15 minute pauze? NO!!

 

So you're saying that after being kicked your next attempt queuing will be an instapop ? Really ?

 

It can take 1 hour , more or not pop at all.

 

Be fair about it. If you have a friend that comes online and you need a replacement, who won't choose for that friend?

 

What is more important to you ? Play with your dear friend or get the comms ? If it's a guild run , then you really dont need a tool to help you put together a group

Groups I am with normally do not abuse this mechanic but we will vote-kick someone that comes into S&V with green level 45 gear on and that has never done the Op before. Also I see the convenient "disconnect" that happens right after you defeat the boss for the WEEKLY.

 

It would make things easier if you could invite someone to join to speed things up. I don't have an issue with grouping with random players and if this is the mechanic they want to keep they could at least fix the group finder bugs (people join in progress then can't travel to instance or walk into the phase).

And why do you think, while in a group finder group, devs made it so you CANNOT invite specifc people (as in not random people) ? Just for teh lulz ?

 

Indeed designflaw. Why do you think the new SM's are roleneutral? Its to speed up the queueing proces. Its not because bioware thinks we should play a SM with 4 tanks. Its because they want us to wait less before we get a group. The same is for the current gf.

 

It speeds up the process to get groups together with random people. Whether they are your guildies or friends, irrelevant.

 

It speeds up the process to get groups together. Leave the random out of it because many people queue with 1 or 2 friends.

 

Group finder is about random. Random content (either flashpoint or op) and random people. you dont want the random, then you know what to do.

 

Again groupfinder is not random. You can select random fps or queue for a single one. You can queue with 1, 2, 3 or 4 people for a flashpoint. You can use the gf to instant travel, and so on. Random is just a tiny part.

I don't mind random at all. I do it very often with 1 or 2 friends and fill it up through gf. If one person leaves (not kicked but leaving, dc'ing for more then 10 minutes,...) and meanwhile a friend of mine has come online we will try to get that friend in.

 

So you're saying that after being kicked your next attempt queuing will be an instapop ? Really ?

 

It can take 1 hour , more or not pop at all.

 

No I didnt said that. I said that you won't have a LOCKOUT after a votekick. Not having a lockout is something else then a instantpop.

 

What is more important to you ? Play with your dear friend or get the comms ? If it's a guild run , then you really dont need a tool to help you put together a group

 

Play with my friends and getting comms if possible. Why should I leaveout on 10 ultimate comms. I will be a thief of my own wallet. While we are forming an opsgroup we normally splitup into 2 teams of 4 and queue on the same time, we keep declining till we get the ops we want and the other group. This won't hurt other people AT ALL. This will even help them and place them HIGHER into the queue.

If someone dc's and needs to leave the group in order o re-enter we will keep kicking until our dc'ed friend is back.

 

Votekick removes lockout, but when premade queues trough group finder, leader tends to keep power to simply kick people, and those kicks do cause lockout. So your testing is irrelevant.

 

If that kicking gives out a lockout (which I didnt knew) we'll be sure to votekick since that won't give a lockout. Remember that testing is never irrelevant. Its always good to know facts.

 

Long story short, play the game as you like, let others play the game as they like. Do this all while not hurting other people.

Edited July 22, 2013 by fire-breath

Indeed designflaw.

I disagree. It is a good decision to change how grouping behaves while on group finder.

 

 

It speeds up the process to get groups together. Leave the random out of it because many people queue with 1 or 2 friends.

 

Leave the random out of it ? You are complaining because you cannot invite specific people. The random is there and you don't want to be subject to it

 

If you queue with 1 or 2 friends, then your group is not full and group finder will assing some unkown fella for you. While the group finder must have some specific rules, those one or two people you get group with are random to you.

 

 

Again groupfinder is not random. You can select random fps or queue for a single one.

 

If you do select a single one, so it's not random anymore, you forfeit the comms reward.

 

 

I don't mind random at all. I do it very often with 1 or 2 friends and fill it up through gf. If one person leaves (not kicked but leaving, dc'ing for more then 10 minutes,...) and meanwhile a friend of mine has come online we will try to get that friend in.

By trying to get that friend/guildie in in such way you ARE abusing the system.

Votecking is a tool to correct a wrong in your current group, like someone disconnected, an abnoxious jerk, someone not geared for the rol, or not geared at al. Not belonging to your guild or not belonging to your friend's list is not a wrong

 

No I didnt said that. I said that you won't have a LOCKOUT after a votekick. Not having a lockout is something else then a instantpop.

 

You're justifying that practice because, you said, it's only "15 minutes" even if that's the case you don't have to right to do it. And it's not. It can take one hour or more to get another ops group. That extra hour or so might be the difference between being able to complete the ops if you're lucky enough to get another group

 

 

 

 

Long story short, play the game as you like, let others play the game as they like. Do this all while not hurting other people.

 

Are you serious ? By instakicking people that group finder assigns to you for no other reason they are not your guildies, you are hurting other people

Edited July 22, 2013 by wainot-keel

Yeah, pretty much agree. If you could manually invite people it would defeat the purpose of even using group finder at all.

 

Even in other MMOs that have a random instance thing, those manually invited after it's started don't get the group finder rewards.

 

I don't think it takes from the idea of group finder because I PUG alot and I get placed into groups that have maybe three or four people from the same guild that wanted to to do the op and I was able to que into that group, which is great

 

I have also had people leave a group for one reason or another and PUGs seem to take hours so RL sometimes calls people away. It's nice to be able to fill that spot

 

Not to mention waiting for a tank or healer to be qued up can take a long time and some people que in and drop themselves if we are past the weekly boss because they will be locked out for the week

 

Just to point out that I disagree with kicking people that que in, but I personally have not seen that happen yet. I have seen someone que in when we wanted someone particular but we just went with that guy because it was fair

 

I would not let a few jerks out there ruin it for everyone and take away options for the majorit, maybe you should try ebon hawk imps side, we are cool to each other

Edited July 22, 2013 by kirorx

Indeed designflaw. Why do you think the new SM's are roleneutral? Its to speed up the queueing proces. Its not because bioware thinks we should play a SM with 4 tanks. Its because they want us to wait less before we get a group. The same is for the current gf.

 

It speeds up the process to get groups together. Leave the random out of it because many people queue with 1 or 2 friends.

It speeds up things for everyone. Including random people in queue. Point of not allowing manual invites is to pull out random people waiting in queue. You are allowed to bring in specific replacement, but he'll have to accept forfeiting his rewards.

By plowing trough everyone in line you're making them wait longer, and yes, this is bad.

 

 

If that kicking gives out a lockout (which I didnt knew) we'll be sure to votekick since that won't give a lockout. Remember that testing is never irrelevant. Its always good to know facts.

 

Getting group matched trough GF gives lockout. You used to be able to see it ticking down, like when witing for replacement. Normal kicking, just like leaving group, does nothing to lockout. Getting removed trough votekick removes lockout.

Irrelevant in context of this discussion, because it wass about premade ops, not fully random FP groups.

I disagree. It is a good decision to change how grouping behaves while on group finder.

 

Lets agree to disagree then.

 

Leave the random out of it ? You are complaining because you cannot invite specific people. The random is there and you don't want to be subject to it

 

No, thats not what I said. 'leave the random out of it' was in response the call out that Groupfinder is intended to 'speed up the process to get groups with random people'. This is incorrect because groupfinder is there to 'speed up the process to get groups' (ergo: leave the random out of the sentence).

I dont have any issues at all with randoming stuff. It is still a designflaw, but one I don't care about.

 

If you queue with 1 or 2 friends, then your group is not full and group finder will assing some unkown fella for you. While the group finder must have some specific rules, those one or two people you get group with are random to you.

 

Indeed, and this is perfectly fine. I like it this way. It speeds up the process to get a full group if I dont have 3 other friends online. Its also a very nice way to meet new people and possibly adding them to your friendslist.

 

If you do select a single one, so it's not random anymore, you forfeit the comms reward.

 

I know, its exactly what I was trying to say. You just made my point clear. Groupfinder isnt all about random. Its about speeding up process to find groups, even if you like to do a single flashpoint. I do this at times to get achievements for certain flashpoints.

 

By trying to get that friend/guildie in in such way you ARE abusing the system.

Votecking is a tool to correct a wrong in your current group, like someone disconnected, an abnoxious jerk, someone not geared for the rol, or not geared at al. Not belonging to your guild or not belonging to your friend's list is not a wrong

 

Technicly it isnt specified anywhere that you cant. Therefore abusing is a bit heavy word. What I do agree with is the fact that it isnt very nice and annoying for people to get a kick. For that reason I always whisp that person before or after he gets kicked.

 

You're justifying that practice because, you said, it's only "15 minutes" even if that's the case you don't have to right to do it. And it's not. It can take one hour or more to get another ops group.

 

No I'm not. I never used the 15 minutes timeframe statement. I don't know why you think I said it. I said that if you get kicked from a group you will endure the normal queueing time.

 

That extra hour or so might be the difference between being able to complete the ops if you're lucky enough to get another group

 

Well, how long would it take if we were going in manually? Then you wont get a pop from us. Basicly it changes nothing at all. Option 1: We go in manually and there won't be a pop, Option 2: We use gf and there will be pop but you get kicked. Both options result in exactly the same. You won't have a group yet. Only thing that might have changed is that your ego was hurt or you got your hopes up.

You could state that you are being placed back in the begin of the queueline. However, if it takes that long to get a group then there a just not enough people queueing for stuff.

 

Are you serious ? By instakicking people that group finder assigns to you for no other reason they are not your guildies, you are hurting other people

 

Yes I am serious. I am not hurting people besides theire ego. Queueing time WILL remain the same, they will get a pop as if we were entering manually. I will test out how opsgroups are wotking with lockouts because guess what? I am NOT trying to hurt people

 

It speeds up things for everyone. Including random people in queue. Point of not allowing manual invites is to pull out random people waiting in queue. You are allowed to bring in specific replacement, but he'll have to accept forfeiting his rewards.

By plowing trough everyone in line you're making them wait longer, and yes, this is bad.

 

The problem is that you cant invite people manually without forfeiting everyones rewards and having to reset the ops wich leads to resetting all trash. By plowing through everyone through queue they are not waiting longer then normal.

1. If we werent queueing they wouldnt have had a pop

2. Appreantly there are not enough people queueing to get a group, you would have to wait anyhow (see point 1)

3. Even IF they are being placed back in line, that line would not be long because

3a. Everybody is being plowed through which lead to exactly the same situation as before

3b. Guess what? there are still not enough people for an other group (see point 1 and 2)

 

So, no, we arent making people to wait longer.

 

Getting group matched trough GF gives lockout. You used to be able to see it ticking down, like when witing for replacement. Normal kicking, just like leaving group, does nothing to lockout. Getting removed trough votekick removes lockout.

Irrelevant in context of this discussion, because it wass about premade ops, not fully random FP groups.

 

Irrelevant yes and no. Yes, its irrelevant because It may not be working the same for opses as it does for fps. No, its not irrelevant because I'll go test it out during opses. Thx for the advice given.

It speeds up things for everyone. Including random people in queue.

 

You use the word "including" as if they were NOT originally meant - but a non-random group.

 

Which is to me Eliticism shining through.

Edited July 23, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

You use the word "including" as if they were NOT originally meant - but a non-random group.

 

Which is to me Eliticism shining through.

 

Post that I replied to assumed they werent important as long as he could get quick pop. Your point? Or just reading comprehension failure?

No I didnt said that. I said that you won't have a LOCKOUT after a votekick. Not having a lockout is something else then a instantpop.

Even if you're right about the lockout, being put at the back of a 1-2 hour long queue solely because the other people are being morons is entirely unacceptable. Or, do you really not understand that you've just moved someone from the front of the queue to the very back?

Edited July 23, 2013 by Ancaglon