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Balanced Ideal Tank Stats

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles
Balanced Ideal Tank Stats

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
04.09.2015 , 11:27 AM | #1
Introduction
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Juggernaut

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Powertech

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Assasin

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namesaretough's Avatar


namesaretough
04.09.2015 , 01:24 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
Stats tested as full 198 Juggernaut Tank w/o MH and found to be valid.
What does this mean exactly?
Smugglin

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.09.2015 , 01:35 PM | #3
At present, my Malaphar numbers are coming straight from you, Methoxa. :-D I looked at dipstik's numbers as well, but decided to provisionally use your conclusions on the damage types. If we ever get something more authoritative, I'll update mine to match.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
04.09.2015 , 02:12 PM | #4
#1 Malaphar : M/R+K/E: 52,6%
F/T+K/E: 0%
F/T+I/E: 47.4%

No reason for stacking absorb as there is only M/R+K/E dmg.

Your stats :

KBN 3800 0749/1521/1530
Dipstick 1919/1200/0722

Quote:
What does this mean exactly?
http://parsely.io/parser/view/20392

Temple Sword Squad + some Revan

Squad wasn''t perfect as i got hit by rapid fire which made 115 dtps, so in case you play perfect you will be at 2600dtps.

Revan was close to worst tries so they are actually not counting.

Dtps seemed good + Healers found it easy to heal. Further testing it tommorrow in Ravagers.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.09.2015 , 03:42 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
#1 Malaphar : M/R+K/E: 52,6%
F/T+K/E: 0%
F/T+I/E: 47.4%

No reason for stacking absorb as there is only M/R+K/E dmg.

Your stats :

KBN 3800 0749/1521/1530
Dipstick 1919/1200/0722
This is just a function of the fact that Malaphar is lumped in with other low-M/R bosses, most of which have lower I/E and higher F/T+K/E. Honestly, I think I really should have done the groupings by M/R vs F/T+K/E ratio, rather than just blindly looking at unadjusted M/R+K/E.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
04.09.2015 , 03:50 PM | #6
Or you could've treated Malaphar as an unique boss?

So basically Malaphar is also a high M/R+K/E boss for you?
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Jethsidi's Avatar


Jethsidi
04.09.2015 , 04:26 PM | #7
B-Mods Stat Budget = 3841
Your Averages:
Juggernaut 1098/1505/1219 = 3822
Powertech 800/1747/1250 = 3797
Assassin 649/1458/1690 = 3797

Closest Actual Attainable Stats (Matched Defense, then Shield, and rest in Absorb)
Juggernaut
Def - 1094 = 25.08%
Shield - 1512 = 47.97%
Abs - 1235 = 46.63%

Pwertech
Def - 807 = 18.48%
Shield - 1720 = 51.20%
Abs - 1314 = 51.69%

Assassin
Def - 653 = 23.94%
Shield - 1460 = 58.38%
Abs - 1728 = 53.57%

Happy Tanking!
Don't ever learn how to tank.
They won't let you do anything else once they know you are good at it.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
04.09.2015 , 04:29 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
Or you could've treated Malaphar as an unique boss?

So basically Malaphar is also a high M/R+K/E boss for you?
No, Malaphar is counted as a low MR/KE boss exclusively, which is a problem. My criterion for separating low, mid and high-MR is simply to look at the absolute MR level, rather than normalizing to just MR+KE vs FT+KE, which would shift Malaphar into high-MR (since the normalized ratio is 100%).

This was never a problem in previous tiers since the I/E levels were relatively low on basically every boss (and also fairly constant), but the error increases with the percentage of damage that is I/E. Malaphar is of course the poster-child for that kind of boss, so it is the one most noticeably mislabeled.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
04.09.2015 , 04:41 PM | #9
nice to see so many people participating in tank theorycrafting. i just wanted to point out that my numbers should minimize the dtps, and i do not attempt to minimize spikeiness at all (i would be open to a discussion of how to do so im my thread). i have yet to dig into kbn's mathematica script to find all the deviations of our assumptions from one another. the biggest is the process by which numbers are derived. kbn uses mathematica to generate his numbers, and i believe he has a method of testing the neighborhoods of the points suggested by mathematica (or some algorithm to avoid local minima). I use excel solver and if i see the numbers lobesided, it is typically due to a bad seed (initial guess) that pushes the numbers into a particular local minima of dtps. i will then change the seed to something like 1300 of each stat (if you look at my sheets you will see cells next to defense, shield and absorb that are there just to copy and paste to set the seed). i used to use a maple (another math program, for symbolic stufts mostly) method of lagrange multipliers to find optima, but, like kbn's process, it would take around 5 minutes to get d,s,a ratings for a single set of lagrange constants, for a single type of tank (and that was before kinetic bulwark added around 100 operations per damage/stat setup). even when we were both using numerical analytical methods, we still differed in that he used ratios of stats (like x+y+z=1) where as i set up lagrange constants like defense=stat_pool-shield-absorb. i think kbn still uses these ratios in his script.

the more meaningful difference between kbn and i (outside the realm of numerical analysis considerations) would be the assumptions behind things like heat blast/screen and kinetic bulwark (kbn does a much better job of kinetic bulwark calc since he doesnt rely on a regression like i do, but im not sure if he has a modified script for the new set bonus). i am also still not sure how the game is handeling the math after 3.0, in terms of which abilities get a multiplicitive damage reduction, and where they pop up for things that are very specific (3.0 now has damage reduction talents for every type of damage type and attack type).

anyway, happy to see more people looking into this stuff.

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
04.09.2015 , 04:41 PM | #10
Stats will change as soon as i update Number from KBN to be 3841 insted of 3800 which ofc had an influence of the total stat budget as Jethsidi wrote. In addition i have to update Malaphar numbers, so also the average for each tankclass will change as soon as KBN will update his.

To dipstick :

Your term squishiness in your calculation does refer to spikyness, so i thought you took this also into consideration and that was the reason for your numbers to differ from KBN's - seems i was wrong. Will change my introduction soon with your stated differences between you and KBN.

Quote:
anyway, happy to see more people looking into this stuff.
Actually i am not looking into this stuff, but looking into your ideal tankstats and those of KBN and Jethsidi So basically it is

(Dipstick <def> + KBN <def> + Jethsidi <def>) / 3
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