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220 item rating with relics? ***?


LordSkyKnight

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So I just returned a couple weeks ago and starting playing the typical stupid gear catch up crap. I have been noticing that the geared out people are running with crap relics with max gear in the other slots. Is this the new 2017 relic exploit going on or something? What is the deal with it?

Nah, it's just that max gear is obtained mostly(1) by RNG, and *which* relic you get when you get a relic is *also* chosen by RNG.

 

(1) Sources are:

* Command Crates that you get as you earn "Galactic Command" ranks at level 70. These are entirely RNG.

* Tokens that drop from bosses in Operations. The RNG in these is more to do with how the Ops group chooses who gets them.

* The same tokens, but bought for "Unassembled Components" that you earn in Warzones and GSF. The RNG here is of the "heads I win, tails you lose" type unless you group up with a competent group, but it affects only how many matches it takes before you can buy a piece of gear.

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Some relics provide higher endurance bolstering (matrix cube), some provide bugged mastery bolstering (208 pvp relics).

 

It's possible that these folks think they have stumbled across some sekrit but the truth is, you want the highest serendip/retribution (small case for devastation, although in 150+ games I could not parse results higher than zero net gain, contrary to what was claimed by others).

 

I parse every single game and look at every single parse. I would advise you to do the same.

 

Then you get fully geared, then you curb stomp these relic wizards.

 

Oh wait, nm, gear doesnt matter - at least thats what some guy in some other thread told me.

Edited by Wimbleton
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It's possible that these folks think they have stumbled across some sekrit but the truth is, you want the highest serendip/retribution (small case for devastation, although in 150+ games I could not parse results higher than zero net gain, contrary to what was claimed by others).

Devastating Vengeance has an advantage if you're doing level-synced content, since it boosts Crit, and Crit isn't affected by sync, while the Mastery and Power boosted by the others *are* affected by sync.

 

They are probably set up to be comparable in unsynced content. If not, they *should* be.

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I love Firebug. It lets me modify people's unwise post formatting so I can reach the "QUOTE" button..

 

Protip, its called CTRL+Mousewheel Down. LoL

 

Secondly, that's wonderful that PVE is a part of life, but it's not a relevant part of PVP discussions in the PVP forums.

 

Some PvE theorycraft would, it seems to me, suggest

 

So lets see, in once sentence you have: 1) Theorycrafted 2) make an assumption 3) Referenced PVE in a PVP forum and 4) go on to make a suggestion.

 

JUST STOP

 

And since you are a PVE-theorycrafter-assumption-suggester, IE rettihs, let me spell it out for you: To use Dev you need to stack alacrity (the other "best" stat, currently). Lack of uptime consistency makes alacrity stacking risky and a less consistent build overall in PVP, due to how PVP works in PVP against other PVP players who are PVPing you in a PVP environment.

 

Now to blow your mind: if there was a passive alacrity buff relic, I might choose (and would definitely test) it against the Serendip.

Edited by Wimbleton
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Secondly, that's wonderful that PVE is a part of life, but it's not a relevant part of PVP discussions in the PVP forums.

It is relevant if it explains why *some* people do something in PvP. I didn't say they are *correct* for doing it or even that the explanation is accurate. I just proposed a possible explanation. No need to get your knickers in a twist about it.

So lets see, in once sentence you have: 1) Theorycrafted 2) make an assumption 3) Referenced PVE in a PVP forum and 4) go on to make a suggestion.

1) So what? Where exactly is that prohibited?

2) Hypothesis, not assumption.

3) It isn't prohibited anywhere.

4) Yes, indeed, I suggested an explanation for people's behaviour. What exactly is wrong with that?

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So you want to be irrelevant and identify as such and that's your right and I should accept you as irrelevant and tolerate and applaud your irrelevance and since I don't I'm a horrible identitist?

 

All that's left for you to do is find my MySpace page and send this thread and the link to yahoo news so they can make an article ruining my life for PvE-shaming you.

 

Kappa

Edited by Wimbleton
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(1) Sources are:

* Command Crates that you get as you earn "Galactic Command" ranks at level 70. These are entirely RNG.

While entirely RNG, if you acquire ANY legendary tier 2, or tier 3 relics before hitting 300 GC, keep them. You can upgrade them to whichever tier 4 relic you seek, and dont need to rely as much on RNG once you hit 300GC. The chances of you getting at least 1 legendary item for every slot before you hit 300 is pretty reasonable, as long as you keep them.

 

Also, keep them to upgrade cross-class to your alts (main gear slots, not relics/ear/implants) without needing to hit 300GC on them either.

 

Crafted 246 work well enough for ear/implants and relics.

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I've tested the SA/FR wind crystal relics using the bolsterizer on fleet and as far as I can tell they are actually very similar to the 248 SA/FR relics in terms of raw DPS output. My sample size is too small/bad to be certain, but I think the level 10 wind crystal relics may be slightly worse although I'm still testing.

 

One thing I am certain of is that they're better than middle tier relics so running these relics is a good way to get 248ish level stats without actually going through the brutal grind of getting the character to 248 and then buying the relics. I use them on my characters while they're still gearing so I can worry about everything except the relics, leaving them for last. In my opinion, this is clearly their main value. Not that they are secretly better than the ones you're "supposed" to use.

 

They've also got the added benefit of extra health, but the amount is not large enough to have an impact except in games where the margins for win/loss are extremely thin. Lastly, the value of having huge procs that might happen at the right moment in your rotation (or might not) versus bad or no procs in exchange for consistently high bonus damage/healing is very difficult to quantify.

 

tl;dr I'm not sure what to make of them yet

 

p.s. some interesting food for thought, if they keep upping bolster I would imagine these relics will eventually become best in slot over the 248s...

Edited by yellow_
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Lastly, the value of having huge procs that might happen at the right moment in your rotation (or might not) versus bad or no procs in exchange for consistently high bonus damage/healing is very difficult to quantify.

 

Quote of the post5.0 release time continuum.

 

The truth is, none of these things are going to make very much difference and I think that when people are having these discussions they are looking for some huge impact to make on their character/performance. Gear is maybe 10%, and thats all gear vs no gear. Arguing the finer points of a state difference of less than 2% of a single stat is almost entirely negligible. The other 90% is going to made up of how well you play this game, and that is decided by how much time you put in (large part) and your innate ability to be good/bad/middle at a game.

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Dot specs will retain a higher up time in pvp than a burst spec. In theory, they would benefit more from a static, larger bonus damage value.
I'm not sure I agree with this, and here's how I see it. If you imagine a spec that does completely consistent, unchanging trickle damage it is going to benefit from whatever relic setup provides the most amount of stat in the long run. Regardless of whether or not it comes from procs or from just a lot of passive stat. If the procs provided more overall stat they would provide more overall dps, regardless of how randomly placed in the rotation they are in this scenario.

 

While a burst spec, the damage remains chaotic. Lining up "windows" (when your relics are procced) can generate greater damage values in a short period due the exaggerated stat weights in power/mastery - especially if both are procced at the same time.
Things get tricky here. You're right, but in order to use this line of reasoning to determine which is preferable you'd also need to account for the exaggerated waste that happens when relics proc during low damage filler or energy management windows. I have a hard time wrapping my head around figuring this one out.

 

I'm actually going to do something I should have already, which is visit the bolsterizer and figure which relic setup provides more raw stat, assuming good relic uptime.

Edited by yellow_
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I'm actually going to do something I should have already, which is visit the bolsterizer and figure which relic setup provides more raw stat, assuming good relic uptime.

 

I'm here for you:

 

This is all with self buffs, mastery stim and bolster only:

This image is the below table, easier to read: https://i.imgur.com/t4LCNL6.jpg

------------- 248 --Wind --- Dif

Mastery 7136 7846 710

Endur 8673 8875 202

Power 4159 4133 -26

Critical 1675 1605 -70

Alacrity 2097 2097 0

Health 129105 131548 2443

BonusD 3665 3807.8 142.8

BonusH 2650.3 2750 99.7

Accur101 101 0

Critical 45.39 45.61 0.22

CriticalM 70.12 69.65 -0.47

HealDissapate 5.8 5.8 0

Alacrity 16.69 16.69 0

 

Here's a pic, showing me in full 248s then in full 248's with the wind relics (with identical augments attached), bolstered via bolsterizer.

 

https://i.imgur.com/iu0vEvL.jpg

 

So, in short, which is better: Uncontrolable 1221 Mastery and 1221 power 6 out of every 20 seconds aka 30% uptime -OR- Constant 710 Mastery (142 BDam/100 Bheal), 2443HP (202 End).

 

Power, Critical Stat, Critical Actual and Critical Multiplier are all so small that you can ignore them.

 

For giggles I respected to Super Charged Defense which, among other things, gives me +3% endurance. This brings my HP to 134621 - that's somewhat imposing and has synergy with both Kolto Surge and Trauma Regulators.

 

For more giggles, with 129104 HP my kolto overload averages 3485 per tic (many thousands of tics in that number). The maximum number of tics I've gotten is 51. With that utility I could possibly increase that average to around 3740. For 51 tics that would heal me for a total of 191,000. I could also take the utility to increase self healing by 20% in energy shield, putting this somewhere near 230,000 healing from one ability. Merc balanced.

Edited by Wimbleton
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yea I already did them :p

 

248s provide more stat with decent relic uptime (~25% is the threshold), although the difference is quite small

 

as I suspected the wind crystal relics are a very good option when you aren't full 248s yet

Edited by yellow_
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So you want to be irrelevant and identify as such and that's your right and I should accept you as irrelevant and tolerate and applaud your irrelevance and since I don't I'm a horrible identitist?

 

All that's left for you to do is find my MySpace page and send this thread and the link to yahoo news so they can make an article ruining my life for PvE-shaming you.

 

Kappa

I see. "It is relevant if ..." means "I said something irrelevant". Nice use of language. /ignore Wimbleton.

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The one guy I've seen running these had some suspiciously high defense chance values, inspite of minimal defense stat. Could just be the spec (some sin spec). In excess of 17% defense chance with sub-200 defense stat. Would make sense if they're getting 10% defense chance from spec.
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I just got done with a pvp match where a jug had 168k health and hit like a mac truck, ***?

 

There's some sort of exploit out there... I wish Bioware would ban people for exploits, they obviously know what their doing is against the rules but they do it anyways.

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