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KBN's Stress-Free Guide to the Tank Rotation


KeyboardNinja

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Cross-posted from the shadow sub-forum.

 

With the changes in 2.5, shadows/assassins have (in general) been finding that the rotation feels a lot more challenging, particularly on bosses with high movement. Also, there have been a lot of complaints that the "new" rotation is a lot more static and rigid than it has ever been in the past, with no time to spare for utility powers and such. This guide is an attempt to address some of those concerns, as well as generally inform. I'm going to steer clear of the "more challenging" and "new rotation" points except for the following note: nothing about the rotation has changed aside from the 12 second timer, which is 3 seconds longer than the pre-2.5 rotation.

 

Oh, this is also not a complete guide to shadow/assassin tanking. I've considered writing such a guide in the past, but frankly Fuyri and Tennebras have that pretty well covered, and while I don't agree with every detail in their guides, I agree with everything important. Thus, I will refer you to their guides together with my general tank gearing post for more in-depth information things that are not rotation.

 

Video

 

 

This video was done in full Dread Forged gear sans implants (which are Kell Dragon), mitigation itemized according to the "Average" profile from my tanking stats post, and all Force Wielder armorings and hilt. Quesh world boss (so that I get defense/shield based regen). 4 minute duration.

 

The point of this video is to exemplify how precisely I go about maintaining my Shadow Protection/Dark Protection stacks in a boss fight. You'll notice that at no point do the stacks fall off. In fact, at very few points are the stacks less than 3 seconds from expiry, though this is harder to see since buffs do not have timers on them without mouse-over. The Quesh world boss isn't the best thing for demonstrating what to do here, because it lacks significant movement, but it gets the job done. There is a brief movement phase at the 3 minute mark, which shows what you do when you're forced to move around at critical points in your rotation (i.e. during or immediately following your channel). The accuracy debuff is maintained at all times, except for a couple of seconds where I simply made a mistake in not refreshing it slightly earlier. Kinetic Ward/Dark Ward is also given 100% uptime without premature refresh, though given that I'm defending/resisting everything the boss does, KW/DW uptime is much less exciting than it could be.

 

One key thing to notice here is that I don't actually need to finish any of my channels! The first tick is always sufficient, because I never let the stacks drop in the first place. Thus, if I had to, I could keep moving 100% of the time and never, ever stand still to channel without losing any mitigation (*cough* PvP *cough*). On an actual boss fight, force management does tend to get a bit tricky if you're not allowed to complete the channel (as Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning is force-positive), but you have enough leeway in the rotation that you can always squeeze in enough Saber Strikes to keep up with your force.

 

Explanation

 

In a single sentence, the shadow/assassin rotation can be summarized as this: use Project/Shock and Slow Time/Wither exactly on cooldown, and channel Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning as soon as you have 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness.

 

The structure of the rotation is exactly as follows:

 

proc1 > proc2 > gcd1 > gcd2 > gcd3? > proc3 > gcd4? > gcd5? > channel

 

When I say "procX", I basically mean either Project/Shock or Slow Time/Wither; which is to say, abilities which proc Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness. You will always be able to use both Slow Time/Wither and Project/Shock consecutively immediately following your channel (Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning) unless something has happened which caused the rotation to get out of sync. Falling out of sync happens most often when you have to move away from a boss and then "reopen" the fight after a phase change. Coming back into a reopening with more than 0 and less than 3 stacks results in abilities drifting out of the structure I have above. In that case, just fall back on the maxim of "use it on cooldown" and you'll be fine.

 

So you use two procing abilities immediately following your channel. Provided that things aren't out of sync, they will always be off cooldown. In fact, provided that things aren't out of sync, the abilities should be precisely the following:

 

Slow Time/Wither > Project/Shock > …

 

This is because you always (barring falling out of sync) proc your third stack using Project/Shock due to its shorter cooldown, which means that the first procing ability off cooldown will be Slow Time/Wither, with Project/Shock coming off CD immediately thereafter. If both Project/Shock and Slow Time/Wither are off cooldown at the same time, Project/Shock has higher priority (the reasoning here will be explained in a moment).

 

Now you have essentially three GCDs (labeled "gcd1" through "gcd3") which are filler while you're waiting for Project/Shock to come off cooldown (as it will come off CD faster than Slow Time/Wither). You can use these GCDs for whatever you want. They are only significant in that they increase your DPS or utility. Thus, you can move around in these GCDs, get stunned, push adds, go AFK, etc…

 

Traditionally, these GCDs are filled with some combination of Force Breach/Discharge (if the accuracy debuff is falling off), Double Strike/Thrash, Shadow Strike/Maul and Spinning Strike/Assassinate. Double Strike/Thrash, Shadow Strike/Maul and Spinning Strike/Assassinate are particularly exciting as they have a chance to finish the cooldown on Project/Shock and essentially abbreviate your rotation. This proc is exciting when it happens, but ultimately it isn't necessary! You do not need this proc to maintain your stacks, it just makes the rotation more dynamic, that's all.

 

Assuming that you either get no procs or you had to fill these three GCDs with something other than Double Strike/Thrash, Shadow Strike/Maul or Spinning Strike/Assassinate, then Project/Shock will come off cooldown in exactly the "proc3" position listed in the rotation structure above. Use it immediately. You have now proc'd exactly three stacks of Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness. The optimal thing to do in terms of threat and rotational safety is to channel Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning immediately and start the rotation over from the beginning. This is what I do most of the time. However, you are also perfectly free to inject two additional GCDs before you channel, though the second GCD is playing with fire unless your connection is very lag-free. These GCDs are new in 2.5, since it was previously utterly mandatory to channel as often as you possibly could, whereas now there is no particular benefit in channeling before the stacks are about to expire (aside from extra threat).

 

For the above reason, I tend to reserve gcd4 (and if necessary, gcd5) for Spinning Strike/Assassinate if it is up (since this is optimal in terms of DPS), Force Breach/Discharge if the accuracy debuff will expire in less than 6 seconds (I do this at least twice in the video), or any utility powers that I need to apply. I try very hard not to use gcd5 at all, since I know that I'm far from perfect in terms of executing the rotation, and I would rather refresh the stacks a GCD early rather than risk them falling off. If I'm not in the execute phase, no utilities are needed and the accuracy debuff is secure, I'll just channel right away here as it is the optimal thing to do in terms of damage and threat, in addition to making the stack refresh a bit more secure.

 

Once the channel is finished, you start the rotation block from the top. Note that, because of the Particle Acceleration/Energize proc, it is entirely possible that your rotation will actually look like this:

 

Slow Time/Wither > Project/Shock > Double Strike/Thrash (proc) > Project/Shock > Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning

 

It's very nice when this happens, because it means that you're refreshing your stacks after only four GCDs, which is to say 6 seconds or half the duration of the buff. Generally, when this happens, I will dither around a bit and maybe toss in an extra Double Strike/Thrash after Project/Shock to see if I can reset the cooldown before I channel, essentially amortizing the luck that I saw in the current block and making the next block a bit easier.

 

Just to reemphasize the point: the Particle Acceleration/Energize proc is not needed to maintain your stacks! If you don't believe me, go practice your rotation on the training dummy while standing at 8 meters (out of melee range). As long as you use Project/Shock and Slow Time/Wither on cooldown, you will always be able to refresh your stacks with exactly 3 seconds to spare (corresponding to the gcd4 and gcd5 slots). Always. Because Particle Acceleration/Energize isn't essential, or even a survivability gain (as it was pre-2.5), you shouldn't fear using Shadow Strike/Maul or Spinning Strike/Assassinate instead of Double Strike/Thrash whenever they're up, despite the fact that they have a lower proc chance. You also shouldn't be concerned about space in which to use your utility powers, like Force Breach/Discharge, since foregoing the proc on Project/Shock is not going to have any effect on whether or not you can refresh the stacks in time.

 

Thus, while the position of your procing abilities (especially the first two) is extremely rigid, most of the shadow/assassin rotation is actually quite dynamic and free to change and shift in response to situational requirements and DPS-increasing procs (such as Shadow Wrap/Conspirator's Cloak). The addition of gcd4 and gcd5 in particular is very, very welcome and represents a significant loosening in the strictness of the rotation from what it was pre-2.5, where gcd4 and gcd5 couldn't exist due to the need to channel ASAP.

 

Project/Shock vs Slow Time/Wither

 

I mentioned earlier that you always want to use Project/Shock before Slow Time/Wither whenever you have the option to do so. The reason for this is quite simple: it gives you a free additional GCD without making the channel timing any tighter. Consider these two alternatives (assuming no procs):

 

Project/Shock > Slow Time/Wither > gcd1 > gcd2 > Project/Shock > Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning

Slow Time/Wither > Project/Shock > gcd1 > gcd2 > gcd3 > Project/Shock > Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning

 

Both rotations are bounded entirely by the 6 second cooldown on Project/Shock. In every rotation block, you are essentially waiting for your second Project/Shock to come off cooldown in order to get your third stack of Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness. This is true regardless of which ability (Project/Shock or Slow Time/Wither) you use first. However, using Project/Shock first means that the rotation block is at its absolute minimum in terms of duration, whereas putting Slow Time/Wither first adds a mandatory GCD at the start of the block, delaying the end of the cycle by 1.5 seconds.

 

Thus, another way to look at the rotation is purely in terms of Project/Shock. Basically, we have the following:

 

gcd1'? > Project/Shock > gcd2' > gcd3' > gcd4' > Project/Shock

 

Assuming no procs, this is the shortest block duration possible. The four GCDs around Project/Shock (annotated with the ' character to differentiate from previous use of the labels) will always include exactly one Slow Time/Wither. Thus, every rotation block has at least two spare GCDs (out of five) in which you can inject any one-GCD ability without consequence. In the optimal case, the Slow Time/Wither usage will come between the two Project/Shock activations. When this happens, the optional gcd1' simply disappears, leaving only the three GCDs in the middle and shortening the entire block by 1.5 seconds. This is an optimal case, since it means that you have built 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness with an enormous amount of time to spare. This leaves you the widest margins for utilities and fight mechanics such as movement, stuns, knockbacks, tank swaps, etc.

 

In a sense, the optional gcd1' positioned before Project/Shock in the above block diagram is actually part of a set of three GCDs which can be placed anywhere in the rotation block. More fully:

 

gcd1'? > Project/Shock > gcd2' > gcd3' > gcd4' > Project/Shock > gcd5'? > gcd6'? > channel

 

When we use Project/Shock first in this block, we are liberating ourselves to place gcd1', gcd5' and gcd6' anywhere in the rotation without delaying the channel (or remove them entirely, if that's what is situationally best). When we cannot use Project/Shock first in the block, we are forcing ourselves to use one of these three precious GCDs in a very specific place: at the start of the block. This is true even when that GCD is being spent on Slow Time/Wither. This removes flexibility, since it means that we can no longer drop these GCDs if we experience downtime during the block (i.e. spend the GCDs on "empty" space, likely being knocked back or moving). It makes a situational decision about the tail end of the rotation before we know what the situation of the fight will be at the tail end of the rotation, which is why we don't want to do this if we can help it.

 

This implies a very strong maxim about the shadow/assassin tank rotation: USE PROJECT/SHOCK AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. When you delay the first Project/Shock in your rotation block, you are effectively betting your stacks on the hope that you won't have any delays in using your second Project/Shock. Don't do this! Project/Shock will always, always be off cooldown at the very latest in the second GCD of every block.

 

I'll make this simple: if you don't use Project/Shock in either the first (optimally) or second GCD after you channel Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning, you're doing it wrong. If you're having trouble maintaining your Shadow Projection/Dark Protection stacks, this is probably why.

 

Note that this implies the ideal opener for a shadow/assassin tank, just based on priorities, is the following:

 

Force Pull > Project/Shock > Slow Time/Wither > Force Breach/Discharge > Double Strike/Thrash > Project/Shock > (Force Potency/Recklessness) Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning

 

Following this opener, you will have a block which looks like this:

 

Slow Time/Wither > Project/Shock > gcd1 > gcd2 > gcd3 > Project/Shock > gcd4? > Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning

 

Barring any fight mechanics – because you know, those totally aren't a thing – all of your subsequent rotation blocks will look like this second block above, with varying abilities placed in gcd1 through gcd3 (and potentially eliminating these GCDs if Particle Acceleration/Energize procs early) and optional abilities being applied in the one GCD following Project/Shock as necessary.

 

Force Management

 

I'm not going to say much here, since honestly on most fights, force management is really, REALLY easy. This is probably the number one reason why vanguard/powertech and (especially) guardian/juggernaut tanks consider shadow/assassin tanks to be extremely easy-mode. We just don't have to think about managing our force 90% of the time.

 

However, there are situations where this isn't the case. This is most noticeable when off-tanking, since we miss out on almost 40% of your resource generation by not shielding/defending attacks (the skill tree tooltips are bugged, FYI). There are also some bosses which don't hit frequently enough to keep up with the force drain of our rotation (Dash'roode and Grob'thok being decent examples). Finally, there are some situations even on average hit-rate bosses where force can become an issue for mechanical reasons. For example, if you get unlucky with the droids on Nefra, you may find yourself being forced to consistently break your channels in order to move out of the circle. When this happens, the rotation becomes much more resource-constrained than is ideal.

 

Fortunately, there's more than enough room in the rotation to account for these situations. The solution is to essentially go into all-out efficiency mode, where "efficiency" is code for "boredom". This rotation looks like the following:

 

Slow Time/Wither > Project/Shock > Saber Strike > Saber Strike > Saber Strike > Project/Shock > Saber Strike > Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning

 

Yawn…

 

This rotation has the following costs: 20 + 26 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 26 + 0 + 30 = 102 force. The total duration of this rotation is 9 GCDs, or 13.5 seconds. During that time, assuming no regen procs from shield/defense, we will regenerate 10.4 * 13.5 = 140.4 force, which means that we are actually force-positive here by 38.4 force. Thus, if you find yourself in a situation where you're running very low on force, throw in a rotation block which looks like the above and you should find yourself back into safe waters.

 

The important thing, really, is just to make sure that you have enough force to keep Project/Shock on cooldown and use Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning before the stacks expire. The easiest rule of thumb to accomplish this is to always ensure that you have at least 26 + 30 - 15.6 = 41 force at the end of gcd3. Remember this rule of thumb for resource management and you should have absolutely no force-related issues maintaining your stacks.

 

Most of the time, I don't pay very much attention to my force bar. This is because, most of the time, I don't need to.

 

Expert Refinements

 

One particularly nice refinement to the rotation structure given above was suggested by Tenebras. Specifically, rather than channeling Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning as soon as you have 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness (as used to be optimal), glance at your Shadow Protection/Dark Protection buff to see if you have a little bit of time left on it. If you have a GCD to spare, then inject a Double Strike/Thrash, Spinning Strike/Assassinate or Shadow Strike/Maul. It doesn't actually matter what you put here, as we'll see in a second.

 

Practically, this alters the structure to be the following:

 

Project/Shock > Slow Time/Wither > gcd1 > gcd2 > Project/Shock > gcd3 > Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning

 

The massive, massive advantage to injecting gcd3, rather than channeling immediately, is that you now have aligned the cooldown of Project/Shock with the tail end of Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning. It doesn't matter what you do in gcd3, Project/Shock will always be off cooldown following your channel! This means that you can reliably put Project/Shock first, and thus cut a full GCD off of your next proc delay on Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning (as explained in the previous section).

 

This is most definitely something that requires a bit of practice though. If you had some delay before your first Project/Shock, or if you had to delay your second one for whatever reason (less common), then you need to straight into your channel to avoid losing your stacks. The easiest way to do this, actually, is to just count GCDs. The buff from Shadow Protection/Dark Protection lasts precisely 12 seconds, which is 8 GCDs. You want to leave a spare GCD to account for lag and movement and such, so that's 7 GCDs that you can use. Project/Shock and Slow Time/Wither take the first two, and Project/Shock rounds out the second-to-last GCD. You will always have at most 2 GCDs between Slow Time/Wither and Project/Shock (possibly less), which means that you can rely on there being not just one, but two GCDs to spare at the end unless you had to delay your first Project/Shock.

 

This is really the kicker. If you can use Project/Shock immediately following Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning, then you're absolutely safe to inject the extra melee attack prior to channeling. If you had to delay by a single GCD, then you're still safe, but you need to start watching out. If you delay by more than one GCD, or if you have to move a lot in the middle of the rotation (delaying the second Project/Shock), then you probably need to go straight into the channel just to be safe.

 

This is a situational adjustment to the rotation, and definitely something that takes a while to become accustomed to. It makes the biggest difference in DPS once you hit the execute phase, since it allows you to use Spinning Strike/Assassinate almost on cooldown, rather than only once per rotation cycle. It also increases the effective crit chance on Project/Shock by a very sizable amount, as well as increasing the number of Shadow Strike/Maul activations throughout the fight. In short, it's a pretty noticeable DPS jump, on top of giving you better control over the margins on refreshing your buff.

 

The only place where I categorically do not use this trick is in the opener. Double Strike/Thrash just doesn't do enough threat for me to be confident holding agro while using it. Additionally, injecting that extra GCD throws off the timing of the rotation with respect to the taunt debuff, forcing me to either delay my first taunt (almost always resulting in an agro rip), or to potentially break my Force Potency/Recklessness-enhanced channel in order to AoE taunt back if agro is ripped immediately after the taunt debuff falls off (in the exact middle of the channel). In short, it's not great. Thus, I still use the "channel as soon as possible" opener, and then start injecting the pre-channel melee attack as soon as I have the margins after the first rotation.

 

Hard Priority Queue

 

In summary, you want to observe the following priority queue for optimal shadow/assassin mitigation, threat and DPS:

 

  1. Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning (if 3 stacks of HS/HD and <1.5s on Shadow Protection/Dark Protection)
  2. Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning (if 3 stacks of HS/HD and MECHANICS INCOMING!!!1!)
  3. Project/Shock (if <3 stacks of HS/HD)
  4. Slow Time/Wither (if <3 stacks of HS/HD)
  5. Force Breach/Discharge (if accuracy debuff expiring)
  6. Spinning Strike/Assassinate (if above 51 force)
  7. Force Potency/Recklessness + Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning (if 3 stacks of HS/HD)
  8. Shadow Strike/Maul (if above 46 force)
  9. Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning (if 3 stacks of HS/HD)
  10. Double Strike/Thrash (if above 49 force)
  11. Saber Strike

 

You'll notice that optimal use of Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning falls in multiple places on the priority queue, depending on your procs, the fight, available cooldowns (i.e. Force Potency/Recklessness), and so on. This is part of why the shadow/assassin rotation is actually a lot more dynamic than it seems at first glance, since really the only two rigid elements of the rotation are (1) Project/Shock on cooldown, and (2) Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning before your stacks expire.

 

Those of you who have read Tennebras's guide (and those of you who are in fact Tennebras himself) will probably notice that this priority queue does not include any facility for exploiting the Force Potency/Recklessness stack removal glitch at the tail end of the Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning channel. This glitch does technically increase DPS (and TPS) by allowing you to effectively get three stacks of Force Potency/Recklessness rather than two. I think this is a neat trick, but it unfortunately relies on using Slow Time/Wither last in the preceding rotation block in addition to saving a Particle Acceleration/Energize proc. This implies at least two GCDs of delay following your second Project/Shock in the preceding block (one for Double Strike/Thrash and one for Slow Time/Wither). This is technically sustainable, but honestly it is playing with fire (the expiry of your stacks) for a fairly marginal increase in DPS. Two GCDs following the second Project/Shock is safe (with 1 GCD to spare) provided that Project/Shock was the very first thing in the preceding rotation block, but this is rarely the case. More often, Project/Shock is on cooldown for 1 GCD at the start of a block, which means that barring lucky Particle Acceleration/Energize procs between the first and second Project/Shock, this two GCD delay is literally within milliseconds of dropping the stacks. My personal verdict is that it just isn't worthwhile. Too much risk and not enough reward (the net gain is about 17 DPS, assuming nearly perfect play and a static fight).

 

Summary

 

The Shadow Protection/Dark Protection stacks are eminently maintainable. The above is how you do it. The end. :-)

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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Wow thanks for a great guide!

 

I've actually found myself lacking in force so that rotation, albeit quite common sense, was a nice tip in your guide. Also thanks for making a simpler reason as to why project should come first in the rotation.!

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Very good read, still think they extend the duration but I agree - it isn't impossible by any means. I always felt though that the up-time is, if anything, taxing. :( A lot of fights just aren't forgiving according to Bioware's "standards" in serious operation fights. I was doing Bestia last night able to keep Protections up throughout the fight once she was able to be fought so in a stationary fight, it's entirely possible - if a little close calls frequently - to keep the buff going. But I still feel 18 seconds would be perfectly alright with me.
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This post makes vividly clear the issues many people have with requiring this playstyle of a tank. Assassin tank play is more like a DPS rotation where you are forced to monitor multiple, similar-looking buffs and procs. The difference is that when a DPS does this poorly, they simply output less DPS. When a shadow tank does it poorly, they are more likely to cause their group to wipe. Their survival is at stake. And they receive little compensation for this risk. Shadow tanks are both more difficult to play and not as good as tanks with better innate mitigation.

 

In addition, a shadow tank staring at their buffs has less ability to monitor the fight, make adjustments, and react appropriately to novel situations. This decreases their QOL compared to other tanks, who are accustomed to being able to do this.

 

KPN's "stress free" guide makes clear out exactly how much monitoring and micromanaging is necessary to not die as a shadow tank. Thank you for the interesting guide.

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This post makes vividly clear the issues many people have with requiring this playstyle of a tank. Assassin tank play is more like a DPS rotation where you are forced to monitor multiple, similar-looking buffs and procs. The difference is that when a DPS does this poorly, they simply output less DPS. When a shadow tank does it poorly, they are more likely to cause their group to wipe. Their survival is at stake. And they receive little compensation for this risk. Shadow tanks are both more difficult to play and not as good as tanks with better innate mitigation.

 

More difficult to play, yes. Not as good as other tanks, absolutely 100% no. The math says we're balanced. World Firsts not infrequently going to guilds with shadow/assassin tanks weigh in as well.

 

As for the rotation being more like a DPS rotation, some of us like that. I love the intricacies of a DPS rotation, and having more of that on my shadow is very welcome. Tracking procs (which don't look anything alike, btw) and cooldowns and making rotational decisions based on those things has been a joyous addition to my playstyle since 2.0, and more recently since 2.5. You may not like it, but not everyone agrees with you.

 

In addition, a shadow tank staring at their buffs has less ability to monitor the fight, make adjustments, and react appropriately to novel situations. This decreases their QOL compared to other tanks, who are accustomed to being able to do this.

 

Citation needed. I can monitor situations and stay aware of a fight just fine. I don't spend my time staring at my buffs. Not by a long shot. I know when procs are likely to happen, I see cooldowns and procs peripherally and via animations. I count GCDs. All of these are things that high-end DPS need to do as well in order to maintain awareness.

 

KPN's "stress free" guide makes clear out exactly how much monitoring and micromanaging is necessary to not die as a shadow tank. Thank you for the interesting guide.

 

Maybe I should set up a webcam and post a video of me doing the rotation, maintaining 100% stack uptime and optimal DPS while eating a sandwich and chatting with friends. Would that seem less stressful? Monitoring and micromanagement happens, yes, but it's hardly stressful.

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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Keyboard, do you have a guide like this for Powertech tanking?

 

I don't have a powertech, and my knowledge of Jugg tanking is far less in-depth than for an assassin. I could probably give you a rundown of the essentials of an optimized powertech rotation, but I couldn't do anything close to what I did in the OP.

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This post makes vividly clear the issues many people have with requiring this playstyle of a tank. Assassin tank play is more like a DPS rotation where you are forced to monitor multiple, similar-looking buffs and procs. The difference is that when a DPS does this poorly, they simply output less DPS. When a shadow tank does it poorly, they are more likely to cause their group to wipe. Their survival is at stake. And they receive little compensation for this risk. Shadow tanks are both more difficult to play and not as good as tanks with better innate mitigation.

 

In addition, a shadow tank staring at their buffs has less ability to monitor the fight, make adjustments, and react appropriately to novel situations. This decreases their QOL compared to other tanks, who are accustomed to being able to do this.

 

KPN's "stress free" guide makes clear out exactly how much monitoring and micromanaging is necessary to not die as a shadow tank. Thank you for the interesting guide.

 

Most of this is untrue. You do not need to stare or even look at your buff bar for any Shadow/Sin-specific reason and the rotation is simple. The effective rotation for Sins is literally just hitting Shock, Wither, and Discharge on cooldown and using Force Lightning at 3 HS stacks (right after your 2nd Shock). Fill in the gaps with Thrash and that's it. Dark Ward is not part of your "rotation", but you can safely use it on cooldown as well without harming your survivability significantly. Even if the player makes a big mistake with the rotation or there is a large gap of time where you cannot build stacks, you can stealth out to regain them every 2 minutes. The other tanks don't have this option and instead must rebuild their defensive buffs.

 

The opener for Sins is also the simplest among all the tanks as it's just their normal rotation with Force Pull at the very beginning, taunts sprinkled throughout, and Recklessness popped after the 2nd Shock.

Edited by Vaidinah
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I've not used my Shadow much since the self heal was removed...or quite a while before that for that matter. Lately we've found ourselves with a shortage of tanks and abundance of healers though, so I may have to dust him off. It's nice that you have more time to play with now rather than fishing for that Particle Acceleration all the time and getting your TKT channeling ASAP. It used to suck looking at that Shadow Wrap that procced on the same hit as PA and knowing I should use Project->TKT to get the self heal rolling. Now we are more likely to keep that Shadow Wrap proc on cooldown.

 

With a full 12 sec window is a hybrid using Masked Assault more viable? Or is it too dangerous relying on at least one PA proc in 12 sec? And extra 25% reduced damage for 6 sec sounds like a nice extra cooldown.

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With a full 12 sec window is a hybrid using Masked Assault more viable? Or is it too dangerous relying on at least one PA proc in 12 sec? And extra 25% reduced damage for 6 sec sounds like a nice extra cooldown.

 

If I remove Slow Time from the rotation, the average minimum time between Telekinetic Throw channels jumps to 16.62 seconds (up from the 8.86 seconds with Slow Time). This initially seems unintuitive due to the fact that Project only has a 6 second cooldown, but remember that Project costs more than Slow Time and Telekinetic Throw is force-positive. Thus, the longer the delay on Telekinetic Throw, the less force we have to waste on Double Strikes attempting to proc Project (and thus Telekinetic Throw). It's a bit of a compounding problem.

 

All of that is to say that the hybrid spec cannot reliably keep Shadow Protection active. It will miss the window by about 3 GCDs, on average.

Edited by KeyboardNinja
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If I remove Slow Time from the rotation, the average time between Telekinetic Throw channels jumps to 16.62 seconds (up from the 8.86 seconds with Slow Time). This initially seems unintuitive due to the fact that Project only has a 6 second cooldown, but remember that Project costs more than Slow Time and Telekinetic Throw is force-positive. Thus, the longer the delay on Telekinetic Throw, the less force we have to waste on Double Strikes attempting to proc Project (and thus Telekinetic Throw). It's a bit of a compounding problem.

 

All of that is to say that the hybrid spec cannot reliably keep Shadow Protection active. It will miss the window by about 3 GCDs, on average.

 

So, the following question, is losing 100% uptime on the 4% DR worth 6sec of on demand 25% DR every 60sec? I suppose it would depend on the fight?

 

Technically, it would be even more than 6sec every 60sec because you reset the cooldown every time you stealth out, and you get 6sec of Shadows Respite when you exit stealth. So, you'd get 6sec to start the fight if you pull from stealth, then another 6sec whenever you want from using Blackout. Then you can get 6 more from combat stealth, with another 6sec from the reset blackout.

 

So on Draxus for example, you mentioned you have 4 stacks from stealth each time he pops except for the 2nd. So you could have 12sec of 25% DR on each of those(6 from exiting steath, 6 from the reset Blackout). And 6sec of 25% I'm guessing on that second one because it's at least a minute between 1st and second pop isn't it? It could be even more extreme, you could have 18sec of 25% DR on the third if you pop Blackout->4 GCD of whatever->Combat Steath->Taunt->4 GCD of whatever->Blackout. Does that make sense? You'd have to be really quick on the stealth and taunt though...might not be viable. I don't tank enough to know if that would work or not.

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Stealthing out to reset Blackout while tanking sort of works, but it's touchy and depends on the fight (Raptus is a good example of a fight where it doesn't work at all). 25% DR for 6 seconds every 60 is time-averaged to be 2.5% DR, which almost doubles the time-averaged contribution of the hybrid uptime on Shadow Protection. Which is to say that if bosses trickled out consistent damage with no variation, the hybrid would be stochastically superior!

 

Of course, there are peaks and valleys. If you can predict where the damage is going to be bad and time both your loss of stacks and your blackout to be in a valley and a peak (respectively), then you'll see really great results. If not…yeah.

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4% Damage Reduction increase = ~7% DR

Blackout on the other Hand is just a normal 25% DR

Because of that and the reapplytime of Force Lightning, the standard build is superior on average (tough not so much anymore after 2.5.2). The 11 deception hybrid is just slightly superior if you

1. have a permanent 5% damage reduction on the Boss

2. are able to use Vanish on cooldown more or less

3. have a better rotation then 100% Dark Protection stack uptime

Edited by THoK-Zeus
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4% Damage Reduction increase = ~7% DR

Blackout on the other Hand is just a normal 25% DR

 

I didn't read the skill tree close enough. If it isn't additive, then yeah, that makes it much less attractive.

 

Because of that and the reapplytime of Force Lightning, the standard build is superior on average (tough not so much anymore after 2.5.2). The 11 deception hybrid is just slightly superior if you

1. have a permanent 5% damage reduction on the Boss

2. are able to use Vanish on cooldown more or less

3. have a better rotation then 100% Dark Protection stack uptime

 

3. is an unobtainable point, unfortunately. Unless there's something wrong with my math, there is simply no way to guarantee 100% stack uptime (even with perfect play!) if you don't have Wither.

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I didn't read the skill tree close enough. If it isn't additive, then yeah, that makes it much less attractive.

 

 

3. is an unobtainable point, unfortunately. Unless there's something wrong with my math, there is simply no way to guarantee 100% stack uptime (even with perfect play!) if you don't have Wither.

 

I meant that you have to be better with the hybrid build then you have to be with the standard spec.

If you are just able to refresh Dark Protection a millisecond before it runs out in the wither spec, that's not enough to run the hybrid and to get a good significant uptime of Dark Protection there.

 

What i wanted to say is, that the hybrid is not allowing any mistakes in Rotation as even 1 single gcd missed = 1 gcd less with Dark Protection up. Therefore the hybrid requires a lot more skill actually :).

 

Edit:

The only boss i use a 33/11/2 build sometimes is nefra, it's the only boss that fulfills all the requirements if ithere's someone with the 5% damage reduction buff (no movement, no stealth rez possible, you get all the time damage and can (and should) vanish on cooldown, no Need for aoe threat....).

 

I tested both specs intensively on nefra 16 man hm with 1-4 healers and compared the damage profiles i took. Because of rng you can't really see differences in the logs tough, still the hybrid should take slightly less damage overall.

On the other hand the wither build is so insanely easy to play on nefra, while it's easy to do mistakes with the hybrid.

Edited by THoK-Zeus
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I meant that you have to better with the hybrid then you need to be with the standard spec.

If you are just able to refresh Dark Protection a millisecond before it runs out in the wither spec, that's not enough to run the hybrid and to get a significant uptime of Dark Protection there.

 

What i wanted to say is, that the hybrid is not allowing any mistakes in Rotation as even 1 single gcd missed = 1 gcd less with Dark Protection up.

 

Ah, yes I see what you mean. That's very true. Wither spec has so much give in it these days. It allows me to do some things that would normally be considered really silly, like sitting on 3 stacks of HD and running around kiting the boss (e.g. NiM Thrasher), delaying my channel until the stacks are a split second from dropping off.

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