I just cannot understand why, in any patched game, a company would insert undocumented changes. Bioware, don't you dare continue this underhanded practice.

 

It breeds mistrust.

 

 

This game is no exception. If you change the cost of pvp items, tell us. If you increase the credit rates of slicing lock boxes, tell us.

 

If these were unintended changes or if you simply forgot to list them in the patch notes, (you guessed it)...

 

tell us!

 

<3 communication.

 

---

fyi: I am not making any judgments here about the nature of any changes, I am PURELY focused on their stealth nature.

My guess is they do this because - if they announced cost changed before the patch is in - people would rush to stock up on whatever was having its price increased. Not that that's a very big deal anyway. Pretty short term thing.

 

Other stealth changes - that have nothing to do with item costs etc - I really don't know. You see them in other games too but I can't think why they're never mentioned in patch notes. It's not as if people aren't going to notice.

My guess is they do this because - if they announced cost changed before the patch is in - people would rush to stock up on whatever was having its price increased. Not that that's a very big deal anyway. Pretty short term thing.

 

Other stealth changes - that have nothing to do with item costs etc - I really don't know. You see them in other games too but I can't think why they're never mentioned in patch notes. It's not as if people aren't going to notice.

 

It's probably because getting the actual patch done is more important than getting the patch notes done, and some things about the patch only the programmers know, so they have to do that bit for the notes, but they're not going to prioritise doing the notes over getting the actual work done.

 

Something like that anyway, I reckon. i.e. 9/10 they'll try and get all the patch notes done, but sometimes time pressure means some things will be missed out occasionally.

 

I doubt very much that it's a conspiracy

Oh I dunno, it's more entertaining to think of it as a conspiracy.

 

I know how much of a hassle it is to document everything you've updated, but surely they can have a little half hour meeting while the patch goes in telling an intern which changes they made. Intern then writes it up, gives it to their manager for review, and the complete patch notes are posted in time for the servers going live. Job done!

 

Or.... it's a giant conspiracy that we'll never understand. You decide.

Surely the programmers have a "To Do" list of changes...

 

Done = "check mark"; someone writes it in the notes

Noticed the items now properly stack from email to inventory and inventory to bank storage.

 

Good fix!

This thread is old but still relevant in 2019 can you believe that? Well it's true. Recently heard that if something is not documented in patch notes it is a bug and not intentional. But even this is untrue. Incredibly nasty changes still slither into the game and are then ignored by those who implemented them?!?! Is this ever going to change? If it has not in 6 years the pessimist in me says "no it won't." Would you like to prove me wrong BioWare?

I just cannot understand why, in any patched game, a company would insert undocumented changes. Bioware, don't you dare continue this underhanded practice.

 

It breeds mistrust.

 

 

This game is no exception. If you change the cost of pvp items, tell us. If you increase the credit rates of slicing lock boxes, tell us.

 

If these were unintended changes or if you simply forgot to list them in the patch notes, (you guessed it)...

 

tell us!

 

<3 communication.

 

---

fyi: I am not making any judgments here about the nature of any changes, I am PURELY focused on their stealth nature.

 

7 years on and they still put stealth changes in and don’t put them in the patch notes and then wonder why people don’t trust them and rage at them for being sneaky and deceptive.

 

To add to this, Musco stated in a stream with Snave that “any” changes not in patch notes are bugs and not intended.

 

So from that point of view this game must be 2/3rd bugs and 1/3 intended content

7 years on and they still put stealth changes in and don’t put them in the patch notes and then wonder why people don’t trust them and rage at them for being sneaky and deceptive.

 

To add to this, Musco stated in a stream with Snave that “any” changes not in patch notes are bugs and not intended.

 

So from that point of view this game must be 2/3rd bugs and 1/3 intended content

 

Surprised that people are not more irate about this sort of thing. This is more of a serious issue than almost any other.

Surprised that people are not more irate about this sort of thing. This is more of a serious issue than almost any other.

 

Been there and done it... that’s the problem... hate and rage have turned into apathy towards it because it’s business as usual. People don’t expect anything less.

Bugs I hate. Stealth patch stuff, eh.... it's their game. It's cool to have some ideas of what they patch but I don't need to know everything. I just hate the bugs. Edited January 5, 2019 by Zerileth

I work in software and if EA/Bioware work anything like us then there is good reason not everything is included in the notes.

 

Like any public release of information our patch notes have to be written first by the Developers then sent to Legal for approval. once approved the notes are sent to our content writers to formally write them up and then sent back to the Product Manager for release to the public.

 

In order for all this to happen before release the notes are sent in at least a month before the release and during that time things may be added or removed from the patch, if that is the case we do not change the notes as it is way to much hassle to do so unless it is a VERY big change. If we did try and change the notes at this point there is a 95% chance this would delay the release.

I just cannot understand why, in any patched game, a company would insert undocumented changes.

 

Sometimes it's simply the result of a confused development process. Meaning, sometimes changes get in that aren't communicated to those who write up the release notes, such as a product team This happens in many development shops, not just for games.

 

Other times changes were planned by the product team, but then they were thought to be taken out, but in fact the changes were kept in. In yet other times you get the reverse situation. (Meaning, the patch notes mention something that clearly isn't the case.)

 

Sometimes it's the case that changes are considered "minor enough" as to warrant no mention. This is usually a bad idea and it's the hallmark of an inexperienced product team, usually assuming people won't want to know or won't care about certain changes.

 

And, of course, sometimes it's the case that they really don't want to call attention to something that they know might be unpopular or not received well.

 

I'm not dismissing your point here, incidentally. I do agree that BioWare's communication process has been perceived (justly or not, depending on your view) as being bad so they should always err on the side of more rather than less communication. For some reason, this is a lesson they have seemingly not learned at all or, if they learned it, they don't apply it. That too is usually the hallmark of an inexperienced team. This is why community management is so important.

Surprised that people are not more irate about this sort of thing. This is more of a serious issue than almost any other.

 

Because I don't get upset at something I've come to expect from MMOs. I've played WoW and they do undocumented changes as well. Not like swtor is the first nor the last MMO that will release undocumented changes.

ITT: Communicate with us RAWRghughuyghhuughjuhh!

 

BW: Okay <insert reasons> for "prior" undocumented changes.

Forums: RAWRugharghblurghbkarghblorghle!

BW: <Goes back to not listing reasons for undocumented changes.>

ITT: Communicate with us RAWRghughuyghhuughjuhh!

 

BW: Okay <insert reasons> for "prior" undocumented changes.

Forums: RAWRugharghblurghbkarghblorghle!

BW: <Goes back to not listing reasons for undocumented changes.>

 

I don't think your point is being made, though. You are saying "prior undocumented changes." People are not asking for a list of prior undocumented changes. Generally the wish is for upcoming changes and making sure the patch notes accurately reflect what is being seen in the game.

 

To be sure, it is true that some people will complain no matter what. But it's equally true that more people will complain the less there is perceived to be good (or any) communication, particularly when there is a history of this.

 

Admittedly, BioWare is in a bit of situation where the problem has gone on so long and the community at large is so tainted by that experience, that no matter what approach is taken, it will probably be seen as counter-productive by both the product/development team and the community of players.

There have been 2 undocumented changes that have negatively affected my game. I'm sure there are more, but these two really irk me.

 

1. When they were talking about the gearing changes in 4.0, we were assured that there wouldn't be any gear sets removed from the game. Then we log in and almost all of the planetary gear vendors were gone and flashpoints no longer dropped their sets. Sure, most of those looks have re-skins, but not all, and most of those re-skins either dye wrong or are not moddable. The situation was aggravated by planetary level sync making rarer drops nearly impossible to get.

 

1a. At the same time they removed most of the story from heroics, going so far as physically removing some of the quest givers. How did they not realize that in a story focused game that would go over like a lead balloon?

 

2. About a year ago they removed functionality from the outfit designer. When they made the dye system they didn't have the time to add dye slots to all of the armor in game, so they only added it to moddable armor and higher level armor. We complained quite a bit about that since many of the low level static drops are great! When they then added in the outfit designer we could finally dye those pieces by putting them in a stamp and dying the stamp. It was a great fix for an earlier short fall. Then low and behold, around last March, that work around no longer works. There have been numerous threads about how unhappy we are about that, and I even pm'd Musco directly about it, but the issue has been completely ignored.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Damask_Rose

I work in software and if EA/Bioware work anything like us then there is good reason not everything is included in the notes.

 

Like any public release of information our patch notes have to be written first by the Developers then sent to Legal for approval. once approved the notes are sent to our content writers to formally write them up and then sent back to the Product Manager for release to the public.

 

In order for all this to happen before release the notes are sent in at least a month before the release and during that time things may be added or removed from the patch, if that is the case we do not change the notes as it is way to much hassle to do so unless it is a VERY big change. If we did try and change the notes at this point there is a 95% chance this would delay the release.

 

They already sneak in "very big changes" without announcing them. Also, the excuse that adding in such changes would delay release of the patch is a poor one.