Nothing new huh? So let's go ahead and ignore the fact that this game delivered fully, and skillfully, voiced, story driven content and an innovative companion and legacy system because YOU didn't get what YOU wanted.

The moment they accent their points with dissenting opinions needing reality checks or being in denial is the moment their intent becomes known and their credibility is lost. They don't want a better game imho. They couldn't care less about the game. They want targets of opportunity ... even if it means fabricating them. Especially where future considerations for the game's well being are concerned. Which by the content of their "discussions" isn't a concern of theirs at all.

 

To spend hours a day in a faceless box researching ways to discredit a community and paint a game as a waste of time and money ... man. Unless they're getting paid handsomely for it, what a sad existence that must be.

Edited February 3, 2014 by GalacticKegger

That's a completely made up number.

 

IF it's a yearly figure and IF they have 1 million players, it would require the average CM purchases per player to equal $138/year. That is within the ballpark of a year's subscription.... from 1 million people? That sounds far beyond dubious to me, and in the realm of preposterously implausible.

I try not to make up numbers if I can avoid it, although since a lot of people around here do, I don't blame you for questioning it:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/league-of-legends-revenues-for-2013-total-624-million-update/1100-6417224/

Team Fortress 2 at the number nine spot bringing in $139 million [...] Electronic Art's Star Wars: The Old Republic, which added a free-to-play option in 2012, took the number eight spot with a little more than Team Fortress 2[...] in microtransactions alone (not counting subscription fees).

Citing http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-digital-games-market/

"Similarly, Star Wars: The Old Republic earned $139 million in additional revenues."

Nothing new huh? So let's go ahead and ignore the fact that this game delivered fully, and skillfully, voiced, story driven content and an innovative companion and legacy system because YOU didn't get what YOU wanted.

 

This is excuse has been old for a year and a half now princess:rolleyes:

I try not to make up numbers if I can avoid it, although since a lot of people around here do, I don't blame you for questioning it:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/league-of-legends-revenues-for-2013-total-624-million-update/1100-6417224/

 

Citing http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-digital-games-market/

"Similarly, Star Wars: The Old Republic earned $139 million in additional revenues."

 

Oh, I wasn't accusing you of making it up, but it is made up by someone.

 

Have you spent $139 in a year?

 

I've spent nothing above a subscription price. Nobody I know has spent a cent on CC's. While I don't doubt that there are probably thousands who have spent $139 and more, I just find it impossible to believe that it could average $139 per player. To further strain the credibility of that number, it's based on the assumption of 1 million players when it's probably closer to 500k, which would require that to be doubled to an average CM purchase of $278 per player, per year.

This is excuse has been old for a year and a half now princess:rolleyes:

While maybe not quite a year and a half, here are some highlights of new content released over the last 10 months' worth of main updates:

 

2.0 (4/9/2013)

- Planet: Makeb

- Operation: Scum & Villany

- HM FPs: Athiss, Cademimu, Hammer Station, Mandalorian Raiders

 

2.2 (6/12/2013)

- Operation: TFB NiM

 

2.3 (8/6/2013)

- 55 FPs: Czerka Corporate Labs, Czerka Core Meltdown

- Event: Bounty Contract Week

 

2.4 (10/1/2013)

- Operations: Dread Fortress, Dread Palace

- Mission Areas: Oricon, CZ-198

 

2.5 (12/04/2013)

- Galactic Starfighter

 

2.6 (coming 02/04/2014)

- Flashpoint: Kuat Drive Yards Tactical Flashpoint

- GSF: Team Deathmatch Gameplay Mode

- GSF Hangar Bay

 

"About every 60 days or so" as announced in last summer's earnings call. To check out these as well as the other 120+ game updates for specifics of additional content additions & updates, faction additions & updates, new and recurring special events, QoL additions and upgrades, class updates, companion additions & updates, environment upgrades, etc. please check out http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/1212014/patch-notes-2.5.2a.

 

Cheers.

Edited February 3, 2014 by GalacticKegger

Oh, I wasn't accusing you of making it up, but it is made up by someone.

 

Have you spent $139 in a year?

 

I've spent nothing above a subscription price. Nobody I know has spent a cent on CC's. While I don't doubt that there are probably thousands who have spent $139 and more, I just find it impossible to believe that it could average $139 per player. To further strain the credibility of that number, it's based on the assumption of 1 million players when it's probably closer to 500k, which would require that to be doubled to an average CM purchase of $278 per player, per year.

I can respect putting a critical eye to statistics and numbers, even when they're being reported in the press (as long as it's motivated by genuine critical thinking, rather than a "these numbers don't say what I want them to say, so I think they're wrong" flat-earth mentality).

 

In this case though, as much as it makes me want to weep for humanity, I'm not that surprised by those numbers - every Hypercrate costs more than $50, enough people were paying $20 a pop for a black-black dye that they've kept it at that price, and the whole RNG gambling packs just scratch an itch for some people that borders on exploitative.

 

In the end I find it more likely that those numbers are accurate than that a data company that's advertising how it gets its numbers directly from EA is making them up - especially when I can't find any sources or articles calling either the company in general or that report in particular into question.

 

I can't remember if you were one of the posters in the "earnings call" thread who was expressing a general distrust of corporations along the lines of "they always just make things up", and if that's your take on things, well I'm not going to be able to change your mind about something like that over a SWTOR forum.

 

Personally, unless I've got an actual reason to doubt the numbers I tend to think they play pretty straight when lying could invite Breach of Fiduciary Duty suits or SEC fraud litigation. EA knows all too well it can be sued just for saying "Battlefield 4 is a great game", they're not going to open themselves up to liability by making claims that would be an open-and-shut case if the numbers were false.

Edited February 3, 2014 by DarthDymond

Oh, I wasn't accusing you of making it up, but it is made up by someone.

 

Have you spent $139 in a year?

 

I've spent nothing above a subscription price. Nobody I know has spent a cent on CC's. While I don't doubt that there are probably thousands who have spent $139 and more, I just find it impossible to believe that it could average $139 per player. To further strain the credibility of that number, it's based on the assumption of 1 million players when it's probably closer to 500k, which would require that to be doubled to an average CM purchase of $278 per player, per year.

 

Just because you don't like the numbers doesn't mean you get to ignore them or cast doubt upon them without evidence.

 

I get that the evidence makes your argument look silly and contrived and biased, but that's no reason to pretend like they're not legitimate numbers.

 

That's just silly and contrived and biased.

Oh, I wasn't accusing you of making it up, but it is made up by someone.

 

Have you spent $139 in a year?

 

I've spent nothing above a subscription price. Nobody I know has spent a cent on CC's. While I don't doubt that there are probably thousands who have spent $139 and more, I just find it impossible to believe that it could average $139 per player. To further strain the credibility of that number, it's based on the assumption of 1 million players when it's probably closer to 500k, which would require that to be doubled to an average CM purchase of $278 per player, per year.

 

I can fully see a majority of players spending above the yearly sub price on CC every 2-3 months. One simply has to look at the GTN every time a new series of packs comes out to see how many people are dropping hundreds of dollars on these packs.

 

It's the death of a thousand cuts. You don't realize how much money you are spending in relation to the yearly sub, you only see how much you need to buy the CM items you want. Last year, every new pack release cost me 120 bucks in CC. The last pack release I've purchased through credits on the GTN...but someone else had to buy the 3 hypercrates I've bought so far.

 

That alone more than makes that 139 million a believable number. There are people out there spending over 1000 USD a year in CM purchases.

 

Ultimately, the proof is in how often they put out packs and new items. If they weren't making a killing off of it, they wouldn't be spending more time making new CM items than they do making game acquired items.

They do have...

 

2-3 star wars games, dragon age 3 and mass effect 4!. One of the starwars they making, is open world like skyrim!... I would love to play something like that! I prefer open huge world games, with lots to do and experience, with lots of content and dynamic questing, traveling in planets, crafting and some online implimentations, more like a racing arena with others (why not, if we have internet connection)... than MMO. I wont play ESO, but I do expect Fall out 4... I LOVE MODING... Bethesda gives us mature moding.

 

The biggest battle for me is : Fallout 4 vs Star wars open world RPG vs The witcher 3 vs Mass effect 4 (and there is also 1 more game from CDPR Cyberpunk a massive dynamic RPG open world with hybrid bots) This year is hot in video games.

 

My only fear, is origin... I dont want applications installed in my PC, I may use origin to buy something, but I dont want it to run in my background.

 

if someone from EA reads that, heres a suggestion for the open world games...

1) We want them HUGE beautiful and dynamic.

2) Dynamic questing and story line

3) lots of traveling, lots of exploring

4) lots of crafting

5) some online stuff, such us, an auction house (to seel our crafting) and mini games, such as arenas... More like a hybrid. But not mandatory, only for those who have internet connection. That translates a game that plays offline and online with features to do stuff. And if possible, some moding.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Oyranos

Oh, I wasn't accusing you of making it up, but it is made up by someone.

 

Have you spent $139 in a year?

 

I've spent nothing above a subscription price. Nobody I know has spent a cent on CC's. While I don't doubt that there are probably thousands who have spent $139 and more, I just find it impossible to believe that it could average $139 per player. To further strain the credibility of that number, it's based on the assumption of 1 million players when it's probably closer to 500k, which would require that to be doubled to an average CM purchase of $278 per player, per year.

 

Let's see here.

I bought the 5500cc package 39 times during 2013. I believe that comes out to 1559.61 dollars? (I pay in SEK so I'm relying on the internet listing I found of 39.99 for 5500cc)

 

That Averages out to almost 130$ per month.

Since I don't drink, smoke, party or even own a car (commuting in sweden is great) I feel that it's not too much to spend on fun each month.

And I don't even make much money in general. I earn around 2500$ each month.

 

Does that answer your question?

 

Of course, now that I'm out of a job I won't be spending that much on it any more but still, it does puncture your hypothesis about nobody being willing to spend 139$ a year...

 

Ps. Oh and just for fun, i went ahead and calculated how many people it would take paying 1560$ per year to get to that 139m$ figure... it's 89.103 people...

Edited February 3, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

The fear of people leaving this game for Wildstar and ESOL is very real and it's going to happen maybe the guild you are in will fold in the raiding aspects. Diablo 3 had a massive impact on guilds for a limited time till people came back now if SWTOR doesn't do something to swing people away from even thinking about trying other titles then it's game over.

 

 

Because the Cartel Market and GSF isn't really what's going to hold this game up, don't get me wrong people love GSF but in my mind that is very poor content and how they rolled out 2.6 as major content was a kick in the face and like they have showed in the past another blunder.

 

And if they don't have Nightmare/Hardmode lockouts different people are going to leave.

Edited February 3, 2014 by elitenz

Bioware said there would be an "Epic Storyline" for 2.7 in the recent Cantina Tour.

 

"Epic" storyline meaning ONE STORYLINE for all classes, and boring!!! Just like Makeb and Oricon. It's very obvious to me and others that the team who made and put all the sweat to create this game are gone. Totally different staff now, with EA on their backs ruining it more. It's a complete 360 to what this game started out as. Very sad it is. Bomber crap, reskins, and recycled storylines. That's what we get. "Too much coding" to make Legacy Vaults is code for "dont want to put the effort because it is not cartel"...even though THATS WHAT THE PEOPLE WHO PAY YOUR BILLS WANT!!!!!!!!!

 

Future? Cartel filled with reskins, mostly ugly armor that has ugly flaps, jutting 2 ft long spikes, and tubes....ohh, and recycled content, that's about it. Sure, they throw a bone once in a while with a new FP that is old 2 days later and a new ops thats old 2 weeks later. No class specific story continuation, no player housing, no guild ships, no companion continuation, no Legacy Vault, etc. Yep. Ignore what the people PAYING THEIR BILLS ask for time and time and time and time and time again.

 

I will say it again. If Star Wars wasn't in this games title it would be dead right now. PERIOD!! I am pretty fed up with Bioware/EA.

Edited February 3, 2014 by DarthVengeant

Bioware said there would be an "Epic Storyline" for 2.7 in the recent Cantina Tour.

 

"Epic" storyline meaning ONE STORYLINE for all classes, and boring!!! Just like Makeb and Oricon. It's very obvious to me and others that the team who made and put all the sweat to create this game are gone. Totally different staff now, with EA on their backs ruining it more. It's a complete 360 to what this game started out as. Very sad it is. Bomber crap, reskins, and recycled storylines. That's what we get. "Too much coding" to make Legacy Vaults is code for "dont want to put the effort because it is not cartel"...even though THATS WHAT THE PEOPLE WHO PAY YOUR BILLS WANT!!!!!!!!!

 

Future? Cartel filled with reskins, mostly ugly armor that has ugly flaps, jutting 2 ft long spikes, and tubes....ohh, and recycled content, that's about it. Sure, they throw a bone once in a while with a new FP that is old 2 days later and a new ops thats old 2 weeks later. No class specific story continuation, no player housing, no guild ships, no companion continuation, no Legacy Vault, etc. Yep. Ignore what the people PAYING THEIR BILLS ask for time and time and time and time and time again.

 

I will say it again. If Star Wars wasn't in this games title it would be dead right now. PERIOD!! I am pretty fed up with Bioware/EA.

 

If the game had stayed the way it was (and ignoring the fact that the game would have been dead by now) we would have had a class story update maby every 1-2 years in a paid expansion pack like WoW's. (meaning we would have gotten a storlyine expansion once by now. And you can bet your *** it wouldn't have been much bigger than Makeb is, only with individual storylines instead and cost twice as much.)

Not to mention that you would still have gotten those armours with ugly flaps and 2 ft long spikes and tubes (do you even remember what the end-game gear looked like?).

And you would be very restricted in what you wear and what look you had. Adaptive armour would be non-existant and most armour sets would be locked to their respective classes and factions.

And we still wouldn't have gotten a legacy vault because you know what? "too dificult to code" was a reason to not do things back then too.

 

How about you take off those rose tinted glasses and wake up and smell the coffee?

 

You might not like where the game is now, but if it wasn't the way it is now it would have been cancelled by now.

Edited February 3, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

Yeah, cause nobody ever did that before.*

 

* Except for Fallout in 1997 which used the following actual actors.... Ron Perlman, Richard Dean Anderson, Clancy Brown, David Warner, Keith David, Tony Shalhoub, etc...

 

Or Wing Commander 3 in 1996 which used the following actual actors... Mark Hamill, Malcom MacDowell, John-Rhys Davies, Tim Curry, Tom Wilson, etc...

 

And so on.

 

Also, nobody reinvented the basic form of a wheel since ancient times...

 

You see Cat, this argument is really ancient. For example, strategy games brought very little innovation since Dune, and single-players RPG also did not change much since Baldurs Gate.

 

What BioWare did was introduce to players a movie-like experience where all characters are voiced by some of the most known names in voice acting. that includes every single person you meet and your player character. When they did that with Mass Effect, it was pretty revolutionary, so much that now most people demand it everywhere. Brining the same quality of story to MMORPG was another step (lets face it, story in MMOs was pretty lacking until SWTOR built their campaign on it). And now you see other games attempting to do it as well...

Also, nobody reinvented the basic form of a wheel since ancient times...

 

You see Cat, this argument is really ancient. For example, strategy games brought very little innovation since Dune, and single-players RPG also did not change much since Baldurs Gate.

 

What BioWare did was introduce to players a movie-like experience where all characters are voiced by some of the most known names in voice acting. that includes every single person you meet and your player character. When they did that with Mass Effect, it was pretty revolutionary, so much that now most people demand it everywhere. Brining the same quality of story to MMORPG was another step (lets face it, story in MMOs was pretty lacking until SWTOR built their campaign on it). And now you see other games attempting to do it as well...

 

Not to mention that it is extremely rare that the main character (ie. the player) is voiced AND has multiple choices when it comes to dialogue.

The fear of people leaving this game for Wildstar and ESOL is very real and it's going to happen maybe the guild you are in will fold in the raiding aspects. Diablo 3 had a massive impact on guilds for a limited time till people came back now if SWTOR doesn't do something to swing people away from even thinking about trying other titles then it's game over.

 

 

Because the Cartel Market and GSF isn't really what's going to hold this game up, don't get me wrong people love GSF but in my mind that is very poor content and how they rolled out 2.6 as major content was a kick in the face and like they have showed in the past another blunder.

 

And if they don't have Nightmare/Hardmode lockouts different people are going to leave.

 

True, but BW knows they can't hold on to people forever so they will count on new players filling the void.

If BW can't put out a major expansion this year it's going to be very rough.

I can't blame them for wanting to procrastinate on that big level cap expansion. It's a lot of hard work/grief and what developer wants to spend all that time away from their families when the game is raking in so much money and the gravy train is just rolling. That and I believe they just no longer have the manpower to do even a Makeb size release as the studio turns its attention to future projects.

 

I wouldn't count on the blind loyalty of hardcore customers to continue subsidizing the CM. Loyalty has to be earned.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Projawa

If the game had stayed the way it was (and ignoring the fact that the game would have been dead by now) we would have had a class story update maby every 1-2 years in a paid expansion pack like WoW's. (meaning we would have gotten a storlyine expansion once by now. And you can bet your *** it wouldn't have been much bigger than Makeb is, only with individual storylines instead and cost twice as much.)

Not to mention that you would still have gotten those armours with ugly flaps and 2 ft long spikes and tubes (do you even remember what the end-game gear looked like?).

And you would be very restricted in what you wear and what look you had. Adaptive armour would be non-existant and most armour sets would be locked to their respective classes and factions.

And we still wouldn't have gotten a legacy vault because you know what? "too dificult to code" was a reason to not do things back then too.

 

How about you take off those rose tinted glasses and wake up and smell the coffee?

 

You might not like where the game is now, but if it wasn't the way it is now it would have been cancelled by now.

 

Wrong. Very wrong sir. The game would have been 10 times better.

 

I have no rose colored glasses, I have REALITY.

Wrong. Very wrong sir. The game would have been 10 times better.

 

I have no rose colored glasses, I have REALITY.

 

Well you sure proved me wrong with your sound reasoning and persuasive argumentative techniques...

True, but BW knows they can't hold on to people forever so they will count on new players filling the void.

If BW can't put out a major expansion this year it's going to be very rough.

I can't blame them for wanting to procrastinate on that big level cap expansion. It's a lot of hard work/grief and what developer wants to spend all that time away from their families when the game is raking in so much money and the gravy train is just rolling. That and I believe they just no longer have the manpower to do even a Makeb size release as the studio turns its attention to future projects.

 

I wouldn't count on the blind loyalty of hardcore customers to continue subsidizing the CM. Loyalty has to be earned.

 

Whenever I read something like this I always wonder if the person making these statements will come back and say "I was wrong" if BW actually does prove them wrong.

Let's see here.

I bought the 5500cc package 39 times during 2013. I believe that comes out to 1559.61 dollars? (I pay in SEK so I'm relying on the internet listing I found of 39.99 for 5500cc)

 

That Averages out to almost 130$ per month.

Since I don't drink, smoke, party or even own a car (commuting in sweden is great) I feel that it's not too much to spend on fun each month.

And I don't even make much money in general. I earn around 2500$ each month.

 

Does that answer your question?

 

Of course, now that I'm out of a job I won't be spending that much on it any more but still, it does puncture your hypothesis about nobody being willing to spend 139$ a year...

 

Ps. Oh and just for fun, i went ahead and calculated how many people it would take paying 1560$ per year to get to that 139m$ figure... it's 89.103 people...

 

I never said nobody spends $139 per year. I said there's no chance it averages $139/year/player. Big difference. One person spending $1,390 per year would only "cancel" 10 people paying nothing extra.

Also, nobody reinvented the basic form of a wheel since ancient times...

 

You see Cat, this argument is really ancient. For example, strategy games brought very little innovation since Dune, and single-players RPG also did not change much since Baldurs Gate.

 

What BioWare did was introduce to players a movie-like experience where all characters are voiced by some of the most known names in voice acting. that includes every single person you meet and your player character. When they did that with Mass Effect, it was pretty revolutionary, so much that now most people demand it everywhere. Brining the same quality of story to MMORPG was another step (lets face it, story in MMOs was pretty lacking until SWTOR built their campaign on it). And now you see other games attempting to do it as well...

 

I've never said there's anything bad about the story, cinematics, or voice acting. It's all extremely well done. It is not innovative at all though except maybe in its quantity.

 

The level of love for it is also highly exaggerated on these forums. In game it is "spacebarred" by the majority of players.

 

The interactivity is also grossly misrepresented. It is essentially pure fluff that makes minor cosmetic differences to the story, which rather diminishes the whole point of having an interactive story in the first place.

The interactivity is also grossly misrepresented. It is essentially pure fluff that makes minor cosmetic differences to the story, which rather diminishes the whole point of having an interactive story in the first place.

 

You can thank the beta tersters for that who cried and cried until BW removed any and all actual consequences from the choices you made in the story arcs.

I never said nobody spends $139 per year. I said there's no chance it averages $139/year/player. Big difference. One person spending $1,390 per year would only "cancel" 10 people paying nothing extra.

 

Yeah, but like I said, it's enough that 89.000 people spend as much as I do.

And since I am in no way unique, it's not that incredulous to think that it's possible.

You said there is no chance it averages 139$ per year per player. Well it does if 89k spends as much as I did.

 

You are flat out stating that those numbers are made up simply because you do not believe anyone could spend that much money on the game.

But clearly you are wrong. Plenty of people are spending that much money on the game.

Just because you aren't, doesn't mean you can dismiss the figures as some sort of fantasy.

People spend ludicrous amounts of cash on games that they really like.

 

Take Forza Motorsports for example. It costs what a normal Xbox 360 game cost.

But I know of at least 15 people who not only bought that game, but actually bought 4 copies of the game.

and 4 xbox 360's.

and 4 flat-screen TV's.

And a top of the line racing wheel.

And a top of the line racing-game seat.

And a rumble set.

 

That's thousands of dollars right there.

 

Why? Because they liked the game enough to do so.

 

Does it make sense to spend that much money on a single game?

Well, not really.

But people do spend that much money on games.

I've never said there's anything bad about the story, cinematics, or voice acting. It's all extremely well done. It is not innovative at all though except maybe in its quantity.

 

The level of love for it is also highly exaggerated on these forums. In game it is "spacebarred" by the majority of players.

 

The interactivity is also grossly misrepresented. It is essentially pure fluff that makes minor cosmetic differences to the story, which rather diminishes the whole point of having an interactive story in the first place.

 

Please back up broad statements like that with facts?

Just because you don't like the numbers doesn't mean you get to ignore them or cast doubt upon them without evidence.

 

I get that the evidence makes your argument look silly and contrived and biased, but that's no reason to pretend like they're not legitimate numbers.

 

That's just silly and contrived and biased.

 

They give no evidence of any sort to back up their claims either, yet you believe them as if their words were magically etched in stone tablets.

 

You have every right to believe them just as I do to think it's laughably implausible marketing propaganda.