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Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW
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notsocool's Avatar


notsocool
01.13.2012 , 06:06 AM | #191
To Pawpad: There are just as many Slicing nodes at high levels as there are other nodes.

ArmoredJuneBug's Avatar


ArmoredJuneBug
01.13.2012 , 06:13 AM | #192
Quote: Originally Posted by notsocool View Post
I was flooded with more credits I could reasonably spend.
Replace Slicing with any other non-crafting skill, point still stands.

Except that those other skills, which provide crafting materials, will scale with the inflating economy. Slicing won't.

Again, this isn't about the Slicing nerf being a game-breaking problem - it isn't, since you can simply drop Slicing for something else.

It's about the nerf being premature and excessive and Slicing being a broken skill in its current form.

Pre-nerf Slicing was only too good during the early access and first week or so after release, after that the existence of high-level characters with excessive amounts of credits inflated the economy such that crafting materials and crafted goods were bringing in more anyway.

That, the ease of raking in cash with high-level daily missions or mobs farming, is - as you point out - a far, far larger problem. In comparison, Slicing is trivial to balance as it brings in a relatively static number of credits per hour.

Pawpad's Avatar


Pawpad
01.13.2012 , 06:20 AM | #193
Quote: Originally Posted by notsocool View Post
To Pawpad: There are just as many Slicing nodes at high levels as there are other nodes.

If this is true then I hate to say my opinion of these people complaining is that they are just lazy. LAZY. Ofcourse you're not always going to be profitable if you PAY for a lockbox when you can get one FREE.

What is wrong with you people. ><

I don't mean it to be rude but seriously. I started slicing after the nerf because I kept seeing the slicing nodes EVERYWHERE. I did some research to find out what they were and when I learned there a box with FREE credits inside I nearly had a geekgasm right there in pants.

I don't mind running around mining. Maybe it's just me but... why would you send someone out for a lockbox that might have less credits in it than you paid. Why not just walk down a path and pick up a random 250-1k credits.

I've found tents on Alderaan that had FOUR slicing nodes in it. And like 100 feet further down, another tent with THREE.

People, I nearly squealed. Sure now i might not have gathered MILLIONS like some apparently did before the nerf. But it has been MORE than enough to fund my needs and a few luxury purchases so far. And thanks to slicing in it's current form, i'ma be well set for the second riding skill when I ding.

I guess my rantings and ramblings will fall on deaf ears but.. I don't honestly have anything to grip about because I don't send my companions in my place.

"But pawpad you noob the blue item schematics and plans!"

I don't care. >.< I didn't take slicing to become rich I grabbed it to fund my current projects! Like crafting, or a purchasable skill. Or that one piece of armor you spot when you first go to a planet for commendations ONLY gear.. but.. that one piece. 15k.. but it's shiney...


I'm happy with slicing. But don't get me wrong on all of this! If I had been around prenerf I would have done the same thing and had my companions rolling 24/7 while I did space missions. But I wasn't, so It doesn't matter.


Just learn to deal.

Volki's Avatar


Volki
01.13.2012 , 06:28 AM | #194
Quote: Originally Posted by Pawpad View Post
If this is true then I hate to say my opinion of these people complaining is that they are just lazy. LAZY. Ofcourse you're not always going to be profitable if you PAY for a lockbox when you can get one FREE.

What is wrong with you people. ><

I don't mean it to be rude but seriously. I started slicing after the nerf because I kept seeing the slicing nodes EVERYWHERE. I did some research to find out what they were and when I learned there a box with FREE credits inside I nearly had a geekgasm right there in pants.

I don't mind running around mining. Maybe it's just me but... why would you send someone out for a lockbox that might have less credits in it than you paid. Why not just walk down a path and pick up a random 250-1k credits.

I've found tents on Alderaan that had FOUR slicing nodes in it. And like 100 feet further down, another tent with THREE.

People, I nearly squealed. Sure now i might not have gathered MILLIONS like some apparently did before the nerf. But it has been MORE than enough to fund my needs and a few luxury purchases so far. And thanks to slicing in it's current form, i'ma be well set for the second riding skill when I ding.

I guess my rantings and ramblings will fall on deaf ears but.. I don't honestly have anything to grip about because I don't send my companions in my place.

"But pawpad you noob the blue item schematics and plans!"

I don't care. >.< I didn't take slicing to become rich I grabbed it to fund my current projects! Like crafting, or a purchasable skill. Or that one piece of armor you spot when you first go to a planet for commendations ONLY gear.. but.. that one piece. 15k.. but it's shiney...


I'm happy with slicing. But don't get me wrong on all of this! If I had been around prenerf I would have done the same thing and had my companions rolling 24/7 while I did space missions. But I wasn't, so It doesn't matter.


Just learn to deal.
You've written much, and said absolutely nothing. It's all wrong. You're not looking at it properly. Look at the post just above you. If you don't understand that post, then stop posting because you're looking foolish. Your ignorance shows.

Just learn to deal, eh? You first have to understand what you're writing about to say that.

Either a noob or a troll. Has to be one or the other.
Well, I try my best to be just like I am
But everybody wants you to be just like them
They say sing while you slave and I just get bored
I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more. ~Bob Dylan

Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
01.13.2012 , 06:29 AM | #195
Quote: Originally Posted by Pawpad View Post
If this is true then I hate to say my opinion of these people complaining is that they are just lazy. LAZY. Ofcourse you're not always going to be profitable if you PAY for a lockbox when you can get one FREE.

What is wrong with you people. ><

I don't mean it to be rude but seriously. I started slicing after the nerf because I kept seeing the slicing nodes EVERYWHERE. I did some research to find out what they were and when I learned there a box with FREE credits inside I nearly had a geekgasm right there in pants.

I don't mind running around mining. Maybe it's just me but... why would you send someone out for a lockbox that might have less credits in it than you paid. Why not just walk down a path and pick up a random 250-1k credits.

I've found tents on Alderaan that had FOUR slicing nodes in it. And like 100 feet further down, another tent with THREE.

People, I nearly squealed. Sure now i might not have gathered MILLIONS like some apparently did before the nerf. But it has been MORE than enough to fund my needs and a few luxury purchases so far. And thanks to slicing in it's current form, i'ma be well set for the second riding skill when I ding.

I guess my rantings and ramblings will fall on deaf ears but.. I don't honestly have anything to grip about because I don't send my companions in my place.

"But pawpad you noob the blue item schematics and plans!"

I don't care. >.< I didn't take slicing to become rich I grabbed it to fund my current projects! Like crafting, or a purchasable skill. Or that one piece of armor you spot when you first go to a planet for commendations ONLY gear.. but.. that one piece. 15k.. but it's shiney...


I'm happy with slicing. But don't get me wrong on all of this! If I had been around prenerf I would have done the same thing and had my companions rolling 24/7 while I did space missions. But I wasn't, so It doesn't matter.


Just learn to deal.
Mission lockboxes have, on average, a higher number of credits in them and they also come with the chance, apparently a very small one now, of getting a crew mission item to unlock a (potentially) very profitable mission for slicing and other skills. The thing is, people can only have one companion out at a time, and for most players with slicing the obvious choice is to send the spare companions out on missions. Well, since the nerf to slicing that option is pretty much useless.

Before the nerf I was able to comfortably (not easily by any means) help keep four characters in the green as far as their crafting abilities, crew skills and general cost of living went. After the nerf, it frankly is barely even worth it for one character now, I've stopped playing the other three that I rolled because, really, I don't find having to worry about being able to pay for skills to be enjoyable. I pay to play a game not have another job or budget to worry about.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
The Orange Pixel is the REAL Sith Emperor
I don't need luck, I've got ammo - Urdnot Grunt
Remember 4/22/2011. A day that shall live in infamy.

notsocool's Avatar


notsocool
01.13.2012 , 06:40 AM | #196
As I mentioned, the nerf was, in my opinion, stupid. A skill like slicing should never have made it out the door of beta.

I cannot comment on the endgame economy's input/output. That'll be something we'll have to judge in a few months. I do not after all, have the power to look at game economy magic numbers like Bioware does.

What I can say is that a system that makes a constant, large infusion of cash into the game is stupid as heck. All that does is make things cost more. The only positive result, from a player viewpoint, is that vendor sales will be considered "cheap". Yay, we can buy our lvl 50 speeder right away.

Was the nerf excessive? Yes. It makes slicing definitely weaker than other skills. If they want to rebalance that, I suggest maybe giving slicing missions item rewards, rather than cash. You can still loot boxes from nodes, of course.

Am I sad I don't get to use my 400 skill any more? Yes. I've rerolled a new character and this time I do not have slicing. At lvl 41 now, I have 250ish-300ish in two gathering skills. I had capped Slicing on my first character at lvl 35ish, prolly lower, because there was literally no downside to sending a companion (especially the undergeared ones) out to mish. There was no need to sell anything on the AH except the occasional "mission recipe".

On my new character I still have enough to get my first and second speeders, with training, and this is without selling any of the stuff I gather (My third skill is a mission skill that I have yet to use). Yet to ding 50 on this new character though.

In short, I know that slicing was overpowered. I don't have any qualms about ruthlessly milking everything I can about it. The difference is that when Bioware caught on, I moved on. Suck it up.

Lastly, if you are the sort who cancels their sub over a tradeskill nerf, you should not say so. I cannot imagine a dev team that would think it a good idea to pander to a playerbase that will ragequit over such a trivial detail. You can whine and say that Bioware are liars, traitors, and baby-eating bishops, but frankly, were I a dev, I'd be a lot more concerned about pandering to a playerbase that will quit only over major issues, like not actually being able to play the game (something I think there are actually a small but significant number of people experiencing!)

Kahoki's Avatar


Kahoki
01.13.2012 , 06:59 AM | #197
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
The end result was that our economy was getting flooded with credits, which risks causing massive inflation in the economy.
LOL! I cant resist it.

Maybe the Fed, the ECB, and the IMF should take note of this statement.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."----Benjiman Franklin

Pawpad's Avatar


Pawpad
01.13.2012 , 07:02 AM | #198
Quote: Originally Posted by Volki View Post
You've written much, and said absolutely nothing. It's all wrong. You're not looking at it properly. Look at the post just above you. If you don't understand that post, then stop posting because you're looking foolish. Your ignorance shows.

Just learn to deal, eh? You first have to understand what you're writing about to say that.

Either a noob or a troll. Has to be one or the other.
So then my opinion that I'm fine and make good credits by slicing the nodes on a planet for pure profit make me a noob?

Yet so many come here to cry about slicing missions they pay for yet lose credits in the end.

I tried to keep a nice laid back conversational post there without going geeked out number crunching rage and calling out people that post their opinion as a noob or troll.

I'm sorry that I don't send my companions out 24/7 and prefer to do my own gathering with slicing. I'm so sorry that makes me a noob. I thought the 100% profits thing was pretty sweet.

Guess I should just take up another crew skill since personal enjoyment apparently makes me either a noob or a troll.

There, did I stroke you forum ego a bit big guy? Loosen up a bit.

Cyrosage's Avatar


Cyrosage
01.13.2012 , 07:24 AM | #199
Quote: Originally Posted by Pawpad View Post
So then my opinion that I'm fine and make good credits by slicing the nodes on a planet for pure profit make me a noob?

Yet so many come here to cry about slicing missions they pay for yet lose credits in the end.

I tried to keep a nice laid back conversational post there without going geeked out number crunching rage and calling out people that post their opinion as a noob or troll.

I'm sorry that I don't send my companions out 24/7 and prefer to do my own gathering with slicing. I'm so sorry that makes me a noob. I thought the 100% profits thing was pretty sweet.

Guess I should just take up another crew skill since personal enjoyment apparently makes me either a noob or a troll.

There, did I stroke you forum ego a bit big guy? Loosen up a bit.
You insulted the people who support this thread but tell them to loosen up. Thanks for joining the hater train. Seriously, the OP post was about the poor results of slicing missions. NOBODY said slicing is not profitable. Slicing missions will probably put you in the hole though, it did for me, running tier 6 missions at 400 skill. It should not do that. This thread was for feedback about the missions. This was not a crying thread about slicing. This was not about "OMG GIMME MOAR FREE MONEY!" It, again, was stating that missions are pointless. They should be buffed a little or removed. There is downright no reason to send companions on a which when you are most likely going to get less than you paid, which you seem to agree on, but still troll. Ironic.
I collect all the things.


Your_Ad_Here's Avatar


Your_Ad_Here
01.13.2012 , 07:58 AM | #200
I found the below post going through te Dev tracker so just going to comment on it:

Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
Let's get the obvious thing out of the way - slicing was giving too much money, and this needed to be corrected. A bug snuck through launch that resulted in some lockboxes giving out far more cash than our magic spreadsheets said they were supposed to give. The end result was that our economy was getting flooded with credits, which risks causing massive inflation in the economy. Players were abandoning other crafting skills for slicing which was causing the problem to feed on itself. Economic issues are tricky - once you let the horse out of the barn, it's pretty hard to coax it back in - and it's important that the dev team jump on these issues as quickly as we can.

Once we corrected the issue, the math started to fall into line, which is to say the metrics of our economy started to match what we expected slicers to have. It's important to note that, while slicing was always meant to be a little more casual, and less wedded to the other crafting skills than the other gathering skills, it was never meant to be a Magic Money Machine. Slicing is still profitable, I promise - the metrics are showing that slicers still do quite well - but it's no longer profitable to the degree where you were a moron if you chose any other Crew Skill.

Are we done balancing? This being an MMO, you're never done balancing, and we will continue to monitor Slicing and the other endgame skills to ensure they are fulfilling their stated purpose inside the game mechanics, useful to the players who choose them, and healthy contributors to the economy as a whole. It is not unlikely that all Crew Skills will get further adjustments once the game and economy has matured and metrics points out a strong need. Once this happens, I promise we'll make a better effort to let players know the rationale of the changes we're making as we're making them.
Okay ... Mr. Schubert, I do like your post. Very imformative so thanks on that.

What I don't agree with is trying to "deal witht he economy" of an MMO. Granted it is still new and nothing like WoW or EQ2 ... but time and time again it has been proven if people come in and fiddle with things, poo is going to hit the fan and backfire.

I will say the other Crew Skills seemed moot against Slicing (my trooper ammased nearly 20K before he got off of Coruscant) but people will ALWAYS find a way to make oodles of credits by farming, bots, or grinding things til their eyes bleed.
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