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The weird people you meet in Group Finder.


Dallaen's Avatar


Dallaen
07.30.2020 , 11:44 PM | #9951
How is it that a group of all DPS can be formed in this game? On vet mode there is no way an off healer can keep up with the dmg incoming. you need a full spec healer for that.

AndrewAlberts's Avatar


AndrewAlberts
07.31.2020 , 05:41 AM | #9952
Quote: Originally Posted by DaZeeZee View Post
When more than 3/4ths of the majorities of vet FP groups vote to wipe over and over due to their obsession with skipping, no they do not have a valid right to do it their way.
I'd like to quote Yahtzee's review of the first Watch Dogs game, "I wish more games had the balls to tell you 'you'll play it our way or you'll do it with more holes in you than your love interest's face' "

In all seriousness, the amount of skipping in FP groups is half the reason why I suggested my GF reward changes. The other half is to provide some means of escape from the toxicity.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
07.31.2020 , 06:50 AM | #9953
Quote: Originally Posted by Dallaen View Post
How is it that a group of all DPS can be formed in this game? On vet mode there is no way an off healer can keep up with the dmg incoming. you need a full spec healer for that.
Basically, in Veteran mode FPs, you are responsible for your own health, and it teaches you to use your own heals (if any), and defensive skills, which will also help you to not totally rely upon the healer in Master Mode.
Also, of course, there are the kolto stations.
Also note that, there is no requirement for anyone who isn't a healer to 'play' healer in a VM FP.

But yes, it actually can be harder for a healer to handle 3 squishy DPS in VM, than a solid tank and 2 squishes in MM. 😏

Note - In Group Finder, it's only Veteran Mode Flashpoints that allow 4 DPS. Master Mode is the standard trinity.
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

Referral code - http://www.swtor.com/r/dZ8wSV

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
07.31.2020 , 03:33 PM | #9954
Quote: Originally Posted by Gelious View Post
P.S. Maelstorm Prison you say? I dont do that very often, but there are no trash skips in this fp, AFAIK.
Depends what you mean by "skip".

The segment of Maelstrom Prison before Colonel Daksh, the first boss, doesn't have any weird "run in a strange path" skips. But there are about 100 enemies in that segment, and about 75 of them are off to the side, easily avoided.

There are a few other skips after Daksh. The first room with Sith and unleashed Maelstrom beasts can be skipped by going along the edge of the wall. The second big room with unleashed Maelstrom beasts has a necessary fight at the beginning (without copious amounts of stealth CC) but the rest of the room can be skipped. The final big room with unleashed beasts - the room with the bonus boss - can be skipped without any stealth CC. And then there are a few pulls right before Kilran that can be skipped with a single stealth CC.

I would say that the overwhelming majority of enemies in Maelstrom Prison can be skipped, even in a non-stealth group, and that skipping them dramatically reduces the amount of time spent in FP. Conveniently, there is no achievement for killing the bonus boss of MP on Master Mode, and it is only very rarely a Conquest objective, so most groups eschew the bonus and skip most mobs.
Quote: Originally Posted by DaZeeZee View Post
When more than 3/4ths of the majorities of vet FP groups vote to wipe over and over due to their obsession with skipping, no they do not have a valid right to do it their way.
Well, that's just incompetence. If the stated goal is to avoid wasting time, they are failing to accomplish their stated goal. Incompetent players who refuse to learn from experience (or gentle, uncritical help) are bad regardless of what their bad behavior actually is. These people are in the same category as those who stand in the wrong place for Project Sav-Rak and cause wipes over and over. The problem isn't their skipping, the problem is that they're bad at it.

They certainly have a right to be incompetent, but you have a similar right to put them on an ignore list and give your time to people who aren't.
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
Basically, in Veteran mode FPs, you are responsible for your own health, and it teaches you to use your own heals (if any), and defensive skills, which will also help you to not totally rely upon the healer in Master Mode.
Also, of course, there are the kolto stations.
Also note that, there is no requirement for anyone who isn't a healer to 'play' healer in a VM FP.

[...]

Note - In Group Finder, it's only Veteran Mode Flashpoints that allow 4 DPS. Master Mode is the standard trinity.
Incidentally, this right here is why I don't run vets.

As a healer, I don't want to spend most of my time tanking and dpsing because of low vet dps output and high healer threat. It's a frustrating experience. I would much prefer to just handle what mechanics I need to handle, move quickly, and constantly keep everybody topped up. It's less taxing on my patience and much less taxing on my attention; division of labor is a Good Thing. But I can't do that in vets, so I don't heal them.

When I dps, I don't like to have to spend much time keeping my health up. I consider it a loss of efficiency if I have to stop and top up without a healer to do it for me. Like I said earlier, division of labor is a Good Thing. But that's not the case in vets either, so I don't dps vets.

And tanking vets is just about the acme of pointlessness.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

DaZeeZee's Avatar


DaZeeZee
07.31.2020 , 03:55 PM | #9955
Quote: Originally Posted by AndrewAlberts View Post
I'd like to quote Yahtzee's review of the first Watch Dogs game, "I wish more games had the balls to tell you 'you'll play it our way or you'll do it with more holes in you than your love interest's face' "

In all seriousness, the amount of skipping in FP groups is half the reason why I suggested my GF reward changes. The other half is to provide some means of escape from the toxicity.
Games need SOME limitations on how to play, but it can be a good thing to give the player a lot of freedom.

however, that is not the case in this situation. it's why FFXIV dungeons are superior even though they are linear and force you to clear trash before proceeding. becuase the RESULTS of the design and letting people skip are worse than not letting them in this case.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
07.31.2020 , 10:28 PM | #9956
Quote: Originally Posted by DaZeeZee View Post
Games need SOME limitations on how to play, but it can be a good thing to give the player a lot of freedom.

however, that is not the case in this situation. it's why FFXIV dungeons are superior even though they are linear and force you to clear trash before proceeding. becuase the RESULTS of the design and letting people skip are worse than not letting them in this case.
The unskippable trash mobs in Uprisings are often cited as the primary reason why practically nobody queues for them.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"

eabevella's Avatar


eabevella
08.02.2020 , 08:10 PM | #9957
Not a "bad" run but I think I deserve a medal for this.

My lv75 Sniper dps, a lv25 Jugg tank, a lv30 Merc heal, and a lv40 Merc dps.
Wipe once or twice on our way to the first boss. Team was very inexperienced.
I had my suspicion so I said the usual tank=kite boss, the others focus on one marked dog tactic before boss fight.

Wipe. No one use kolto. Heal kept running outside of the room whenever a stray dog was after him.
Tank said he's new at the second wipe. Turned out he didn't know what kolto was.
I suspect no one did because no one but me used it.
Tank was actually pretty good after I explained what was what. He kited the boss away from the dogs and ran to kolto at the right moment. Big relief.
We did it after another two wipes or so before we finally got the Heal to follow mechanic (stop running away!)

My fix bill was 40 or 50k at that point.

I found out the Tank was so green he didn't even know he has an off combat healing skill. You know, the one every class gets at level 1. The one that's so basic most guides didn't even list it.

Of course Heal didn't know he has healing skills. He didn't even know he queued as a heal.

We were very slow. The Merc dps and I finally managed to let the Heal understand that he was a heal. He found his kolto shot skill. Yay. I told him to focus on Tank because Tanks was doing pretty good so he took most damage (said he played wow I guess that helped). Tank found his off combat healing skill at some point.

We wiped at the bridge but that's partly my fault. We took way too long getting everyone on the edge of the bridge (Tank fall off, but I fall off that bridge all the time so no hard feeling), one gold droid was already in position, it stood at the end of the bridge, there's no way to bypass it. I didn't see the others were dragging behind when triggered the gold droid. Bad decision.

But things went upward after that. They followed kill order and took down the 5 men team bosses in one try with no one died.

Heal died once on the big lift because he triggered the upper level enemy while we were all at the bottom.

Heal dutifully fire his kolto shot (and occasionally the kolto scan) at Tank, even forget/didn't know that he can heal himself. I reminded him the fact.

Everyone followed boss mechanic during the final boss fight. We did it at first try. Everyone was pretty healthy.

Tank thanked me. We said goodbye.

Please guys, know your basic skills before you go to a flashpoint, I promise you won't find another player as patient as me.

Crystal_Mind's Avatar


Crystal_Mind
08.05.2020 , 10:46 AM | #9958
Quote: Originally Posted by eabevella View Post
I found out the Tank was so green he didn't even know he has an off combat healing skill. You know, the one every class gets at level 1. The one that's so basic most guides didn't even list it.
A lot of the newbies seem to be overlooking this skill. I think it's possibly a side-effect of having comps set to heal by default, coupled with the ease of starter planet fights. The first time the player really needs their out-of-combat heal is in group content...

Anyway, kudos for turning it into a teaching run. I've had a few of those, but none that really qualify as funny/weird. Most went quite smoothly. I find that impatient people tend to just drop group as soon as they realize someone's green.

alexzk's Avatar


alexzk
08.12.2020 , 05:41 AM | #9959
Quote: Originally Posted by eabevella View Post
Not a "bad" run but I think I deserve a medal for this.

My lv75 Sniper dps, a lv25 Jugg tank, a lv30 Merc heal, and a lv40 Merc dps.
Wipe once or twice on our way to the first boss. Team was very inexperienced.
I had my suspicion so I said the usual tank=kite boss, the others focus on one marked dog tactic before boss fight.
Marvelous, applausing!
Read as a book
There is no ignorance - there is knowledge.

LordSassafras's Avatar


LordSassafras
08.18.2020 , 11:11 PM | #9960
A few more stories:

MM Lost Island. All level 75s: me (commando healer), commando dps, shadow tank, and sentinel dps. Trouble started at the first boss. I think I was the weird one here at first, because I forgot I was using my blaster rifle instead of my cannon, so Propulsion Round wasn't available. The generator droid boss places the electric circle on me, I spam the keybind for the backwards leap and nothing happens because that ability isn't useable with a rifle. It was quite shocking as to what happened next, but we cleared it on the second try.
Sav-Rak also resulted in a wipe the first time because the DPS were new to the fp and didn't understand that all three pipes had to be continuously channeled simultaneously, so I walked them through the mechanics.
Last boss went down first try after a lengthy explanation, although the burn phase was pretty close. All in all, took almost an hour to clear the whole dungeon.

MM Depths of Manaan. When I joined as dps on commando, the first boss was already defeated (apparently somebody left.) Now, let me just say that I absolutely despise Ortuno on MM, but decided to roll with it anyway. Come Ortuno's fight, and the healer goes splat after the first Flow and set of adds, followed by the rest of the group not long after. Second try results in the same thing, so at that point I give the healer's gear a look (level 71 scoundrel): Rating 180-something, a mix of greens and blues with one purple from who knows where. The scoundrel was profusely apologizing and volunteered to leave, but the vanguard tank suggested we give it one more try.
While I did queue as DPS, I respecced to healer to see if that would solve anything while the scoundrel changed to dps: apparently not, as the third attempt entailed, being another wipe. At that point, the scoundrel left, and we decided to try it again with the tank's Elara as a dps. Predictably, she died in the first Flow, but we managed to pull through with the three of us (sage dps was the other.) Near the end of the fight, someone else joined, but we then spent the next five minutes trying to figure out how to get them to us, including asking them zoning in and out of the instance - turns out the entryway to Ortuno's room doesn't reopen once he's defeated, likely a bug. In the end, that other person had to leave. After a while, we got another dps who was able to finish the rest of the fp with us, no other problems on the final boss. All in all, I believe at least six different people were in that instance at one point or another as part of the group, maybe more if someone left before the first boss.