Not reading through all the posts in here to see if it was said but you ONLY get black hole comms from a weekly on corellia, the rest of the quests give daily comms.

If its anything like getting say... tionese or columi geared without raiding and just doing dailies then its perfectly fair as it *allows* casuals to get the gear but it will take WAY longer as you can barely get a few comms a day / week that way compared to what you need.

Where you can practically be fully columi / rakata in a raid or two if you're lucky.

so you can apperantly only get 6 tokens a week

or one piece every 2 months or so

just a rumor I came across

so you can apperantly only get 6 tokens a week

 

or one piece every 2 months or so

 

just a rumor I came across

if this is the case, ppl that dont have time for ops deserve the 1 pice a month for the insane grinding, that, for raiders maybe takes a couple of days or so to get.

currently, rakata ear piece and implants cost 120 daily coms. thats 5 days of grinding pr. piece. It is totally acceptable that people get these for their dedication to doing dailies, just as you, the Ops member, get tokens for your 4-5 hours work (depending on how good you are of course).

I know rakata implants can be bought/sold. Again, if you are willing to splash 1.5 mill on an implant you deserve it.

I think there system is fairly decent.

Raiders still have their "Raiding Only" gear. Its the top difficulty version. They can have their "trophy". But the problem most likely comes from the fact that they are not good enough, or organized enough, to accomplish said level of "achievement". Otherwise it would not be an issue. Because the system is in place now. If I am not mistaken, the ONLY way to get Rakata gear is to..... wait for it.... RAID! And I believe it is Hardmode and Nightmare. Correct? You do not get Rakata gear from dailies. And who cares about a single stupid Ear piece. The important armor pieces, with set bonuses, and such, require Raiding, for the Rakata level.

I don't see a problem with people being able to obtain Normal/Hardmode level gear at the cost of increased time. I do not care if it takes someone a weeks worth of grinding out every daily and not missing a single day, to be able to buy a single piece. And then I go into an Operation and get 2-3 pieces in a 90 minute excursion, on a good day. Loot drop gods and all. Yeah it is so unfair!! Unless I am extremely unlucky, I'd be totally decked out in gear in 3-4 Resets. And I can always subsidize that by doing the dailies as well! And over there on the daily grind, the poor sap is going to be spending what, 10, 11, 12 weeks...

And by then, I'm sporting the "Trophy" pieces, because we've started into NM!

Raider me is happy because I get to be all EPEENED out with my Raid only Trophy gear. And casual player is happy because he was able to obtain the cool looking and better stated gear. Man it is a win win! Oh and the casual player is happy again because in the off chance that people are looking for a PUG for one of their NM runs, he won't get turned down that evening because he has... wait for it... GEAR!

I'm not that worried about it. It just does not make sense to allow people that do not raid to get raid gear.

Yes, it does make sense.

I've outlined "why" earlier in the thread.

I would not care if someone ninjad my raid gear, I will have another chance at it at some point. I log in for raids and that is it at this point.

I don't believe you. From how you've posted about people "getting raid gear that didn't raid for it" - I think you would get upset if someone ninja'd your raid drops.

 

Does no one believe that raiders should be allowed something that they spent a lot of time working for. If you worked for 3 months straight at your job every day really hard on a project coordinating a number of other people to complete an objective, putting in 60+ hours a week and when you were done you were given a raise and a gold watch. Then a week later another guy at work gets the same thing for just showing up to work for 2-3 hours a day.

 

Would you be happy for him or would you feel like you got shafted out of something you worked hard for.

No one is saying that raiders should not receive something for their time, but if we are using the "time investment" metric to determine what raiders get - then soloers win that hands down. They must invest far many more hours to earn a piece of gear than a raider does. Especially considering that just last week, our lone smuggler won 4 Rakata drops in the same night from our hardmode raid. How long would it take a soloer to earn an equivalent amount of gear to that?

You actually have your comparison backward. It's the soloer that would be spending the months working on a project only to see a raider come in and get the same equipment after one night of raiding for a minor time investment.

I have no doubt that I'll be geared out in at least the first Tier of raid gear within 2 weeks of 1.2. I'm a raider - that's maybe 6 to 8 hours for me over those two weeks. It's already been posted that it would take the pure soloer 1 year and almost 5 months to earn a full set - who is getting the better compensation for their time investment?

Can someone explain to me why non raiders want raid gear? There is no accomplishment involved you just get it to get it? The point is raid gear is like a trophy to some raiders, they spent the time putting the groups together and coordinating those people to complete an objective. What purpose does it server for non raiders to get it?

What trophy? I'm in full Columi and have began building my Rakata set. I don't care who sees my gear, it's just something I'm given when the bosses die. Though, the difference is - I don't need gear to entice me to raid. I'd be fine with prestige items. I was happy when I won the Tersa Elite from KP.

As for "trophies" - you do realize that almost everyone will rip the mods out of raid gear in 1.2 and put it in their most favorite moddable pieces right? Even if they don't care for the "moddable" look - they will still rip the mods out and put them in a crit crafted moddable piece for the additional augment stat.

People are not going to be raiding in 1.2 for the "trophy" appearance gear. They'll be after the armoring, mods and enhancements. That's it.

If more people would treat gear as a "necessary evil", rather than a "gift from the gods" - we wouldn't be having this thread.

But if you are not achieving anything to get it what is the point?

The point is that your character is more powerful today than he/she was yesterday.

Soloers wouldn't be after "raid gear" if "raid gear" was limited to raiding like PvP gear is limited to PvP. Soloers could then seek out a gear system that boosted their companion's stats.

We all know this is not currently the case. The next logical step up from Daily commendation gear is Tionese/Columi/Rakata gear. Since these gear pieces are not restricted for use in Operations/Flashpoints, then they are the BEST PvE pieces in the game - thus, are sought after by everyone that wants to do PvE, because in the end - everyone wants to do their daily activities faster.

They want to kill mobs faster to get their dailies done faster.

- just like -

Raiders want to kill bosses faster so the raid is over and they can go back to watching TV faster.

What trophy? I'm in full Columi and have began building my Rakata set. I don't care who sees my gear, it's just something I'm given when the bosses die. Though, the difference is - I don't need gear to entice me to raid. I'd be fine with prestige items. I was happy when I won the Tersa Elite from KP.

 

As for "trophies" - you do realize that almost everyone will rip the mods out of raid gear in 1.2 and put it in their most favorite moddable pieces right? Even if they don't care for the "moddable" look - they will still rip the mods out and put them in a crit crafted moddable piece for the additional augment stat.

 

People are not going to be raiding in 1.2 for the "trophy" appearance gear. They'll be after the armoring, mods and enhancements. That's it.

 

If more people would treat gear as a "necessary evil", rather than a "gift from the gods" - we wouldn't be having this thread.

It's not the point of getting a trophy to epeen off for everyone to see. I would be completely fine with something like prestige gear or a pet that you only get from beating a raid boss, or some other type of item. I dont want to go stand in fleet and show off my shiny new gear for the newbs. I want something that our team can get for completing a hardmode/nightmare mode raid.

It is not as much the time investment as it is the need to get everyone together at a certain time, then all coordinate together to complete something, also keeping people to raid and show up for raids can be tough sometimes. You spend a lot of time carrying ppl through ops to gear them up for HM/NiM, lol then they quit. There is something to be said for getting a team together to complete an objective, coordinate all the fights, coordinate all of the people and keep them together long enough to keep progressing.

I think ppl that can do this should be allowed to get something useful/rare/unavailable to everyone. They can have all the raid gear they want if I can have my <insert something cool>.

It's not the point of getting a trophy to epeen off for everyone to see. I would be completely fine with something like prestige gear or a pet that you only get from beating a raid boss, or some other type of item. I dont want to go stand in fleet and show off my shiny new gear for the newbs. I want something that our team can get for completing a hardmode/nightmare mode raid.

 

It is not as much the time investment as it is the need to get everyone together at a certain time, then all coordinate together to complete something, also keeping people to raid and show up for raids can be tough sometimes. You spend a lot of time carrying ppl through ops to gear them up for HM/NiM, lol then they quit. There is something to be said for getting a team together to complete an objective, coordinate all the fights, coordinate all of the people and keep them together long enough to keep progressing.

 

I think ppl that can do this should be allowed to get something useful/rare/unavailable to everyone. They can have all the raid gear they want if I can have my <insert something cool>.

I understand what you are saying regarding the logistical challenges of keeping a raid force going. The issues that you are talking about is exactly why raiding, in general, should be questioned if it is a worthy enough type of endgame content to continue to receive a majority portion of endgame development.

Personally, while I enjoy raiding with my Ops group - I would be more happy if the most challenging content was found in the form of Flashpoints or even Heroic2/4+ content. To me, raiding should be about large battles that are quick to assemble and complete. The real challenge should be about forming strike teams in small, controlled environments - that is where the content can be balanced much more tightly - when there are only 2 to 4 players.

Fantasy novels are rarely told about large groups of significant characters but rather a small group - because it is easier to identify with a small group than a large group.

currently if you do dailies, you will end up with an ear piece, 2 implants, and level 22 armor/mods/enhancements.

i have no issue with the solo player grinding out a few top level items, but to get the top level raid gear, you should have to raid. in order to get the top level pvp gear, you have to pvp in WZ's or that disaster that is Ilum. i cant get credit for pvp gear by going and camping quest routes on Hoth. the same should go for pve gear. i dont care how many glands you collect over the next 10 months doing dailies, it is not the same as taking down SOA or Karagga.

if all you want to do is dailies all day every day, grab some augmented gear in 1.2 and throw a presence augment into it.

earn what you get and stop looking for the easy way out.

as for the argument about someone running one raid and getting 3-5 items drop for them, their team had to drop whatever boss gave out that loot before they were able to receive it. it wasnt handed to them in the handicap zone.

I am getting tied of the elitest attitude from people like you. "The Best Gear is for only Raiders", To hell with the rest of the gaming community. People who don't have countless hours and have real lives that enjoy other things otherthen gaming steill want to have good gear.

 

So take your pathetic BoHoo story back to WOW and raid until your eyes bleed.

The simple fact is, if you don't raid, you don't need raid gear. If people could get raid gear doing solo content, there is no incentive to raid beyond the "fun" of it, and right now, the fun factor in raids is pretty low with all the bugs in them that BW doesn't seem interested in fixing.

It's not being elitist. You simply don't need it to solo. You can get the best gear available for soloers by soloing. If you want the best gear for raiders, then you would have to raid. It's simple if you actually think about it instead of getting all bent out of shape.

The simple fact is, if you don't raid, you don't need raid gear. If people could get raid gear doing solo content, there is no incentive to raid beyond the "fun" of it, and right now, the fun factor in raids is pretty low with all the bugs in them that BW doesn't seem interested in fixing.

 

It's not being elitist. You simply don't need it to solo. You can get the best gear available for soloers by soloing. If you want the best gear for raiders, then you would have to raid. It's simple if you actually think about it instead of getting all bent out of shape.

The problem is, in order to be a successful raider, you need to commit a ton of time to it.

And in order to have the gear necessary to progress, it is a long grind hampster wheel.

What about the guy that only gets to play on the weekends? He can't make raids during the week. He is a good player, but falls behind on the gear curve far too fast because of his time constraints - and effectivley gets eliminated from progression.

That's why in my mind - trophies and titles should be the main focus for raid acheivements. It allows casual, good players the ability to advance at their own pace, without being left behind on the gear curve needed to compete, simply because they don't have 20 hours a weeek to devote to defeating the same encounters over and over and over.

Raid gear for raiders.

 

If you don't have the skill to complete the raids, tough luck. Paying a subscription doesn't entitle you to have the best gear in the game.

What skill? I was a hardcore raider in WoW for years, back when less than 10% of the "raiders" were clearing all content before the next expansion.

SWTOR? The current OPs, even on hardmode, hardly take that kind of gear/skill superiority. I have limited play time, did almost no flashpoints, and only 3 complete "Raids" once I reached 50 (I dropped out of one so a regular could come in.)

Two of the three raids were hardmodes, one was mostly alts except me. We completed them all. SWTOR is a casual game, including the raiding. It is fun, but requiring any special "elite" skills? I think not. There is absolutely no reason there shouldn't be multiple paths to the same gear. Raid/Quest/Solo/PvP whatever you find fun. But if your only reason for playing is to stand around in Fleet with your "Elite" gear trying to make people you don't even know feel bad/envious whatever, then you have serious issues and need help.

Kind of reminds me of some Horde folks on my WoW server that spend endless hours farming for rare mounts then spend hour after hour sitting on them in Org (seem to be there every time I log on). They do evoke a response from me, but it isn't envy, it is pity

It is a game, play it to have fun and try not to be mean spirited.

The problem is, in order to be a successful raider, you need to commit a ton of time to it.

 

And in order to have the gear necessary to progress, it is a long grind hampster wheel.

I am going to stop you right there because you completely wrong and overly dramatic here. No being a Successful raider does not need you to commit a ton of time to it. I can tell you do not know what raiding is like, maybe you do but maybe you do but you are not good at it. Raiding does not take a Ton of time, my guild is now 9/10 and has only progressively raided for a total of 15 hours to get to this point. Right now we raid progressively (when not spending time raiding normal modes to help out new 50s gear up and learn the raids) 2 days a week 2 1/2 hours at a pop. Yea we have not downed Nightmare modes, do you know why? Because 2 extra pieces of Rakata is not worth having to learn what we need to do in Nightmare modes from Hardmodes, if we were too learn the fights we would want better gear not the same gear just more of it.

Anyways NO you are WRONG raiding right now does not nor will it ever take a ton of time to be good at. Even with the new Hardmode and Nightmare modes, yes it will be hard a first however guess what the content will still be downed by people who raid 5 hours a week like us. Never Again will raids be like Vanilla WoW or EQ1 where you needed to spend 4 or 5 days a weeks 8 hours at a pop just to down the content. FYI it has not required that time commitment since 2006. FYI even if you dont down the boss in the first month nerfs will come and you will down it.

You are wrong and overly dramatic about what it takes to raid. No raid gear should be given to people who down the content. Not solo weekly's, dailies or bought off the GTN.

Why don't we just remove the binding system? That way we can all do whatever we want and just buy whatever makes us feel good about ourselves off the GTN!

I got a better idea. Lets raid Hogger. WAIT *Edit With level 1s

Not that this hasn't been stated again and again, but the raiders will have the top gear literally months before the soloers. By that time a new patch will be out, with a new set of top of the line gear and a new set of QQers.

Yep, that's it right there. The gear grind is never ending, and never satisfying. better to raid for the experience, and pleasure of raiding. Making it all about the gear just leads to constant disappointment.

Why don't we just remove the binding system? That way we can all do whatever we want and just buy whatever makes us feel good about ourselves off the GTN!

...and why not? Honestly, I don't think that's a bad idea.

It's about time an MMO, drooped the gear binding system.

I am going to stop you right there because you completely wrong and overly dramatic here. No being a Successful raider does not need you to commit a ton of time to it. I can tell you do not know what raiding is like, maybe you do but maybe you do but you are not good at it. Raiding does not take a Ton of time, my guild is now 9/10 and has only progressively raided for a total of 15 hours to get to this point. Right now we raid progressively (when not spending time raiding normal modes to help out new 50s gear up and learn the raids) 2 days a week 2 1/2 hours at a pop. Yea we have not downed Nightmare modes, do you know why? Because 2 extra pieces of Rakata is not worth having to learn what we need to do in Nightmare modes from Hardmodes, if we were too learn the fights we would want better gear not the same gear just more of it.

 

Anyways NO you are WRONG raiding right now does not nor will it ever take a ton of time to be good at. Even with the new Hardmode and Nightmare modes, yes it will be hard a first however guess what the content will still be downed by people who raid 5 hours a week like us. Never Again will raids be like Vanilla WoW or EQ1 where you needed to spend 4 or 5 days a weeks 8 hours at a pop just to down the content. FYI it has not required that time commitment since 2006. FYI even if you dont down the boss in the first month nerfs will come and you will down it.

 

You are wrong and overly dramatic about what it takes to raid. No raid gear should be given to people who down the content. Not solo weekly's, dailies or bought off the GTN.

So, what your entire post basically says is that you do not devote a great deal of time into Ops. You can invest the bare minimum of time into Ops and still come away with enough gear to justify your minimal investment. To increase the challenge and time invested would be a waste as the gains are outweighed by the horrific cost of "having to learn what we need to do in Nightmare modes." Running Ops does not take a ton of time invested to become good at.

Hmmm... Let me sum up, you invest the minimum to gain the maximum.

And yet, you still have an issue with (carfeul Gavin, incoming facts, you may want to duck and cover as per usual) players receiving a meager 6 BH comms from running every daily for a week. That is an inordinate time investment as compared to your aformentioned experience.

So... We have a great invesment of time for a meager reward.

Curious that "logic" would dictate that your scenario is, indeed, the one that is horrendously balanced. I mean, it's only logical that someone willing to invest more time and effort should get the best rewards. Right? You do punctuate so many of your retorts with a call to logic. Just sayin...

Also, realize not everyone who runs Ops feels the same on this subject as you. I am perfectly fine with getting gear through my guild running Ops on a schedule, just as I am fine with someone who chooses not to do so getting it from a dedicated schedule of dailies.

This is not an argument of "raid gear for raiders." This is not raid gear, this is merely PvE gear. If you want to get yours faster by running Ops, feel free - just don't impede someone who chooses to attain it their own way at their own pace. Play your game, let them play theirs. You need to seriously adjust your outlook on things if someone else's digital toon wearing the same digital armor as you causes such a fervor.

I am going to stop you right there because you completely wrong and overly dramatic here. No being a Successful raider does not need you to commit a ton of time to it. I can tell you do not know what raiding is like, maybe you do but maybe you do but you are not good at it. Raiding does not take a Ton of time, my guild is now 9/10 and has only progressively raided for a total of 15 hours to get to this point. Right now we raid progressively (when not spending time raiding normal modes to help out new 50s gear up and learn the raids) 2 days a week 2 1/2 hours at a pop. Yea we have not downed Nightmare modes, do you know why? Because 2 extra pieces of Rakata is not worth having to learn what we need to do in Nightmare modes from Hardmodes, if we were too learn the fights we would want better gear not the same gear just more of it.

 

Anyways NO you are WRONG raiding right now does not nor will it ever take a ton of time to be good at. Even with the new Hardmode and Nightmare modes, yes it will be hard a first however guess what the content will still be downed by people who raid 5 hours a week like us. Never Again will raids be like Vanilla WoW or EQ1 where you needed to spend 4 or 5 days a weeks 8 hours at a pop just to down the content. FYI it has not required that time commitment since 2006. FYI even if you dont down the boss in the first month nerfs will come and you will down it.

 

You are wrong and overly dramatic about what it takes to raid. No raid gear should be given to people who down the content. Not solo weekly's, dailies or bought off the GTN.

So clearly raiding is the ez-mode way of getting solo gear and you shouldn't be able to get the solo gear by doing it. Solo gear is earned by soloing not by raiding.

(Yes, as long as you keep calling the gear "raid gear" I will keep calling it "solo gear")

So, what your entire post basically says is that you do not devote a great deal of time into Ops. You can invest the bare minimum of time into Ops and still come away with enough gear to justify your minimal investment. To increase the challenge and time invested would be a waste as the gains are outweighed by the horrific cost of "having to learn what we need to do in Nightmare modes." Running Ops does not take a ton of time invested to become good at.

 

Hmmm... Let me sum up, you invest the minimum to gain the maximum.

 

And yet, you still have an issue with (carfeul Gavin, incoming facts, you may want to duck and cover as per usual) players receiving a meager 6 BH comms from running every daily for a week. That is an inordinate time investment as compared to your aformentioned experience.

 

So... We have a great invesment of time for a meager reward.

 

Curious that "logic" would dictate that your scenario is, indeed, the one that is horrendously balanced. I mean, it's only logical that someone willing to invest more time and effort should get the best rewards. Right? You do punctuate so many of your retorts with a call to logic. Just sayin...

 

Also, realize not everyone who runs Ops feels the same on this subject as you. I am perfectly fine with getting gear through my guild running Ops on a schedule, just as I am fine with someone who chooses not to do so getting it from a dedicated schedule of dailies.

 

This is not an argument of "raid gear for raiders." This is not raid gear, this is merely PvE gear. If you want to get yours faster by running Ops, feel free - just don't impede someone who chooses to attain it their own way at their own pace. Play your game, let them play theirs. You need to seriously adjust your outlook on things if someone else's digital toon wearing the same digital armor as you causes such a fervor.

Basically I am countering his point that being a raider "requires a ton of time" This statement is so faults that its wrong that he even said it. 5 hours a week is not a ton of time, raiding 5 days a week from 8pm til 4am is a ton of time. (Old School Raiding) which does not exist anymore.

Anyways this whole argument is a moot point now. People will now be able to BUY raid level gear off the GTN.

Arnathis: Can we please get an in-depth explanation of how gearing is going to work in Game Update 1.2? I understand that you can reverse engineer the gear and possibly learn the schematic but is that for everyone or just the people with the appropriate Crew Skills? Will this apply to the tier sets as well?

 

Georg Zoeller (Lead Combat Designer): This is a very broad question, but I’ll try to answer as comprehensively as possible, as the system is rather complex.

 

First off, in an ‘under the hood’ change to the game, end game items have more stat variety, allowing for significantly improved item customization for players that like to fine tune their stats.

 

The most important change for gear in Game Update 1.2 is that all previously modifiable purple gear has all their mods exposed, including the so called ‘base mod’ (Armoring, hilt, barrel). These can be freely moved into any empty (orange) appearance shell, giving you a lot more choices in your character’s appearance.

 

New end game gear (e.g. “Campaign Gear”) introduced with the Game Update has the added benefit that it keeps information about its set bonus on the armoring – but comes with the limitation that the extracted armoring can only be moved into an item of the same slot type (chest to chest, boot to boot, etc.). The reason for this ‘Bind to Slot’ behavior on armoring is that we do not want players to farm the initial boss of an Operation as the easiest way to obtain a full set of end game mods.

 

This means you can now take any custom (orange) appearance and imbue it with all the benefits of your end game set. As an added progression option, you can also acquire a critical crafted orange item with additional augment slots for even better stats.

 

Reverse Engineering has also received considerable improvements with Game Update 1.2.

 

For one, when attempting to reverse engineer an item (for which you indeed need the appropriate profession) you will now be able to see in the item tooltip what your chance to successfully reverse engineer a new schematic is (or if such a chance exists at all).

 

Many of the new end game items (and end game items going forward) can be reverse engineered to learn schematics based on the original item:

 

Reverse engineering an item with mods leads to empty orange equivalents of the end game items. This can be done after the mods are extracted and used in a different item!

The item you learn to create is commonly Bind on Equip, as we want to encourage a more lively market on the Galactic Trade Network.

Many different mods can now be reverse engineered which will grant you a schematic to craft that mod. (This is not possible on armoring that carry a set bonus.)

Reverse engineering non-modded items usually leads to a schematic for an equivalent item.

Reverse engineering an end game item also provides materials needed to craft these items. Operations materials are also Bind on Equip now, creating a more diverse market.

A crafting critical on these schematics will usually lead to an augment slot. For item mods, it results in an extra item.

 

Effectively, this means you can sell nearly full end game items (including augment slots on a critical success) one component at a time. However, doing so requires a significant upfront investment, it’s certainly not easy. This also means every profession now benefits from Reverse Engineering and can trade items.

 

Armormech produces certain Augments, Augmented Tech Armor

Armstech produces certain Augments, Augmented Weapons

Artifice produces Color Crystals, Enhancements, Augmented Shields and Relics

Biochem produces Augmented Implants

Cybertech produces Mods and Augmented Earpieces

Synthweaving produces certain Augments, Augmented Force Armor

 

Augment schematics (green) are found via Slicing missions and blue and purple variants of these augments can be researched via reverse engineering by the appropriate crafters. It is not possible to reverse engineer legacy augments obtained from slicing before the game update arrives, however. These are technically different items.

 

Because we do not want players to gamble with reverse engineering custom appearances (orange items) which are often unique quest rewards, the schematics for these items are obtained via mission discoveries for various gathering skills and are set to Bind on Equip to encourage active trading.

 

Finally, a word on augment slots: with Game Update 1.2, crafters are the only source of augment slots in the game, significantly elevating their ability to contribute highly desirable items into the more open trade economy while enabling players to engage in end game using an appearance of their choice.

 

We have also heard at the Guild Summit and through community feedback on the Forums that many players have built up a significant stack of custom appearances for future use in their cargo holds and would really like to upgrade these with an augment slot to make them fully competitive as end game gear. We absolutely support this and will be introducing the ability to do so in a future Game Update.