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Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap
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Ottoattack's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:34 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
Yeah that's the irony of it. They put carnage in the burst spec area when it's burst is conditional and can be easily shut down. You do your hardest hitting attacks outside the burst window and the damage they do goes down massively. Carnage has three second window and so it's burst is very dependant on skill and good reflexes.

Fury is the burst spec. Thier burst is frontloaded and unconditional. You can't screw their rotations up because they don't have to stick to a ridged rotation like Carnage does. Carnage got the extra attack that it didn't need and this effected it's resource managment and basically made it hard to play.

I'm not saying Fury shouldn't get some love, it definately should, but Fury is the burst spec, Carnage's burst is now as reliable as Fury. A delay for Fury does not have the same impact on it's DPS as it does with Carnage.

They did the same exact thing to snipers. They put one of it's specs in the wrong category.

Both pure DPS classes. I doubt that's a coincidence seeing as how Marauders have been considered the most balanced class through out 5.0.

Adjustments are fine, but they nerf Carnage DPS and up Fury's making it have better DPS than Carnage. I'm done with this game.

Not like they're going to give Marauders a defensive buff, so, if anything they'll nerf ruthless agressor.

So looks like lose/lose.
Absolutely. As the current setup holds, Fury should not outdps Carnage by any means. And yes, it looks like a lose lose. If fury get buffed and carnage gets nerfed, carnage will become obsolete. Also, fury and rage are almost identical in rotation, so why is not rage on this list?

I think that ruthless aggressor should be nerfed, but if they will leave out merc and sniper survivability as is and nerf maras that will be just stupid.

LtGeneralGezlin's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:34 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by notanjelika View Post
Luckily? The "new" flashpoint will outgrow its amusement in maximum two days, then no one will do it again. People will start again to shout ,yell and scream for new chapters and companion recruitment quests.
You mean... like you are? Look, the last two expansions were for us "Story people", it's everyone else's turn now. And while I do want my Smuggler's crew all back together, I know it'll take a while.

Also, how do you know that the flashpoint will outgrow it's amusement in two days? Have you played it yet?
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menofhorror's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:35 PM | #63
I do agree though that the gear level requirement would be in my opinion be better at 230 I think.

Chedica's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:36 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Elssha View Post
* MM FPs can be done in far worse gear... I'd suggest making it 230, at most, if you're going to cap it.
I am guessing that's gonna be just group finder requirement. You should be able to enter there 'manually' with your mates. The idea seems to be to exclude less experienced players. Which is fine by me.

notanjelika's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:39 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by menofhorror View Post
So like with every new piece of content? Everything will eventually outgrow it's amusement. It's normal.
Fine, as you say, but the gear requirement will literally kill the master flashpoints. Let's say i have 6 of 7 rating 242 gear, i get rejected even if i survived with much worse gear in OPS.. sorry but i see no logic in this. Call me names, accuse me of trolling, i still have the right to my opinion.
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itcesar's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:39 PM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by MotherCrusher View Post
242? really? i actually do just fine in team of augmented 230, no wipes.... now i should be forced to grind even more just to do dailies for MM flashpoints...
rather make it not put you in the toughest flashpoints if you dont have gear for it, as not every single one actually requires that good gear
So they are making me find random ppl in general chat instead of easily queue in GF, 230 gear is good enough to do a master mode. Why not fix the queue so you dont get group with low tier ppl, same stuff you just don't mess with casual players that dont have rank 300 and dont grind the game every day.

This feel like im being punish for not playing enough even tho i pay every month for the sub.
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menofhorror's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:39 PM | #67
True. I actually think that's it's overall a good idea to give a certain gear requirement for master fps for the group finder.

Alssaran's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:39 PM | #68
The way I interpret the change is that the 242 rating requirement only applies to master mode of the new flashpoint.
Which is, in my humble opinion, still an unnecessary barrier if implemented into other FP as suggested they could "if it works."

Most master mode flashpoints do not require 242 legendary gear. Even the most challenging of them (Lost Island/Blood Hunt) work just fine in a 236 augmented character. Furthermore, master mode flashpoints are one of the best ways for alts to gather these 20-25 GCXP levels per week without too much of a hassle.

I have no idea who came up with the idea to restrict master mode flashpoints to 242, and who consecutively decided they should try it with all master mode flashpoints, but it seems that this person doesn't really run master mode flashpoints all that often. While doing it in full 230 with augments can take some skill (i.e. Blood Hunt and Lost Island), most work just fine at 230-236 average gear rating. I have never had a group where 230 or 236 average gear rating would be a hindrance in: Foundry, Battle of Ilum, Hammer Station, Rakata Prime, Athiss, Black Talon, D7, Boarding Party, Raiders, Tython & Korriban and False Emperor. All these flashpoints are quite easy, even on master. And even the hardest flashpoints are doable in mostly 236 legendary gear.

And coming back to why this is an unnecessary change for even the new flashpoint: If 5.4 hits with this gear barrier in mind, I can effectively make a pick: Either I complete the flashpoint in easy mode on my alts that are on an average between 230 and 242, or I do not advance on these alts at all. Sometimes I do like to advance alts through a modicrum of difficult content. I did most of the chapters on veteran difficulty as soon as they were available, and I even managed to clear eight of them for my first playthrough back when veteran was the higher difficulty.

Furthermore, if the FP in master mode requires an average of 242 gear to be completed, I can already see it not working out so well in terms of balancing. People shy away from Blood Hunt because the fights can be very tightly tuned for 236 characters, when all other flashpoints are actually quite doable in 230-236. If the FP is tuned in a way that requires an average of 242 gear, not even the people in 242 gear are going to do it all that often. It would take too much time to do trial and error, espescially with new people, when they can just run one of the well-tuned master mode flashpoints.

In this case, I really can't get behind this reason:

Specifically, a player will need to have an average gear rating of 242 to use Group Finder. We won’t prevent pre-made groups from going in directly, but this will prevent under-geared players from slowing down your group.
Since gear has become a grind to get and not a skill check to get, gear isn't a good determining factor anymore. We had a full 242 commando healer in D7 earlier who was so bad that I had to constantly heal the tank during the Mentor fight. However, I have seen sage players in average gear of 230-236 who had such a good rotation awareness and healing output that Lost Island was a breeze for my 230 tank.

It's not the gear that's slowing the group down. Quite the contrary: Everything at or above 230 augmented gear can clear a master mode flashpoint without any issues. This is a suggested change/implemented feature that, sadly, completely misses the mark. I wouldn't mind if the gear requirement was 230, or even an outlandish 236 for some of them, but an average of 242 seems very...steep.

Umbara Stronghold – This is the most unique stronghold yet, as you will be able to decorate your own moving train.
I'm curious about this: Will this be a train that has simply multiple panorama options, or a train that is actually constantly just animated to move on a railway system like the one during the season 4 Clone Wars Episode?

However, I'd really like a discussion topic on decorations at this point. I appreciate that we are getting so many new strongholds, but I think this really makes a discussion about decoration acquisition necessary. So many simple decorations are horribly overpriced at this point, and I think having a discussion about how this acquisition should be handled would be greatly appreciated. A little example: I can't even buy a simple bartender decoration or a simple spacer kitchen because they range from anywhere between 5-10 million on the Progenitor. Alright, admittedly I easily could, but a ten million price for something so basic as a kitchen decoration is absurd. At this point, buying a new stronghold is slightly "unfavourable" because I can only fill it with basic chairs, soldiers and tables anyway.

Is there any way that we could see more "direct" stronghold bundles on the cartel market, and preferrably with some different decorations? A staff bundle, a basic appliances bundle, and so on?

Class balance – The following Disciplines are receiving changes (details will follow in the next few weeks):
Do these class changes include the long-awaited utility changes, or are these only number adjustments? And furthermore, if the first is the case, why is Sage not on that list?

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WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:39 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
It was never "all melee classes are getting a 5% buff". It was melee sustained is supposed to be 5% above target dps. If they are currently doing 8% above target dps, they will get nerfed approximately 3%. If they are at the target dps, they will be left alone, and if they are 5% under target dps, they will get buffed approximately 5%. So a class like lethality, which is much higher than the target dps, will be getting nerfed in 5.4.
I don't think thats right though because there are specs that are in the "on target DPS' cateogory that are going to get nerfed in 5.4.

I knew they were basically just going to rip every spec apart, deserved or otherwise. 5.5 they'll finish ripping the rest of the specs apart and than start tearing down defenses.

All the work that people put into gearing and grinding to improve it's all going to brushed away. We'll end up being no better than we were in 224 gear, so what's that point of all the effort?

How they this system of determining DPS, without any consideration to all the other abilities and utilitiy and all the things that make up a spec can lead to balance I'm baffled by. You need to take everything into account.

Defenses, mobility, self heals, off heals, perma stealth, CC kit, immunities, using role specific abilities in other roles, range, difficulty of class, difficulty of optimal performance, self sustaining issues, and and support capablilities. All these things effect not only the play, but even the DPS in many instances.

I think by the time this 'class balancing' is done, there will not be one spec that wasn't made worse in some way and will leave players happy with their spec and class balance will be worse than it was before 5.3. They just doing it in groups, everyone will get their turn probably.

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Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

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Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
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Eshvara's Avatar

07.21.2017 , 03:40 PM | #70
Will we be able to get a nice preview of the SH sometime, pretty please?
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