Hi,

I'd like to learn to play operative to be able to enter ranked with it at some point. I had multiple attempts at trying to learn but always quit because I was just lazy and preferred my marauder main comfort zone.

But now really want to learn them because I need some other motivations to keep playing ....

So my questions are :

In the case of ranked PVP , what set bonus is better ? Is tactician still a good choice or I need debilitator for ranked as many opers seem to use it. I have both sets, but I'd like to keep my other 7 tech damage armornings for PT if possible.

What is a good rotation for concealment ? I play regs and unanked arenas and I don't do well in the damage department so any help here would be welcome . In reg arenas I still need to break 5k-6k dps, so I am kinda of noob when it comes to this class.

What is a good rotation for concealment ? I play regs and unanked arenas and I don't do well in the damage department so any help here would be welcome . In reg arenas I still need to break 5k-6k dps, so I am kinda of noob when it comes to this class.

If you need to ask for rotation it's a good idea not to play ranked just yet. Just go for objectives and try to delay and survive + start to feel comfortable 1v1ing every class for now.

Also topping damage meters is not an end in itself and not a must have indicator of doing good. For example if you get focused you will start kiting and try to survive and that will drop you dps.

If you need to ask for rotation it's a good idea not to play ranked just yet. Just go for objectives and try to delay and survive + start to feel comfortable 1v1ing every class for now.

Also topping damage meters is not an end in itself and not a must have indicator of doing good. For example if you get focused you will start kiting and try to survive and that will drop you dps.

I won't play any ranked until I can play this with ease..

Ideally you would use debilitator for 4 dps and tactician when support roles are involved, but you can't really go wrong with either. I tend to favor debilitator for concealment because the extra rolls helps your uptime and kiting, plus the double hardstun is really nice to set up kills or peel for a teammate.

What you need to keep in mind when dpsing as concealment is that your backstab autocrit buff only lasts for 6 or so seconds (too lazy to log in to check), so you can delay your volatile appropriately in order to take advantage of your backstab autocrit which is crucial for your burst. Ideally you want to follow your volatile immediately with veiled strike and backstab. The rest of your damage comes from just spamming lacerate and veiled strike. Mix in some vital shots, frag grenades or even basic attacks if they are out of range so you don't lose uptime.

If you are only pulling 6k dps in a warzone then you are way better off improving your uptime than focusing on your rotation for dps improvement. In order to do dps in swtor you need to be good at always pressing buttons and really persistent with staying in range of your opponent. Learning your rotation is important, but it is secondary to having good uptime.

It becomes really important in PVP to know your rotation so well that you get to a point where your rotation becomes something you can just do automatically with very little thought. You need to take the time to understand your DPS mechanics as thoroughly as possible, so check out what guides you can and do some reading.

The big thing with PVP is you have to put so much focus on PVP things like surviving, situational awareness, peeling for teammates, setting up kills, etc. Not much room for learning how to play the class in that space and still be successful.

As far as your set choice goes.. something to consider: the tactician set is just free damage that happens automatically. The damage is always there and always good. You don't need to think about this set's mechanics at all, so this might be useful if you're new and still learning the ropes. The Debilitator set is something you would use only if you can play the class at a high level. You need to be clever about planning your double stun window to get the most bang for your buck. The CD reduction on roll is sweet, but so much of concealment's defence is dependent on perfect player execution. If you're terrible at rolling to avoid damage, then this set would be a bad pick.

If there is any chance you would go lethality then you would for sure want to get tacticians. Debil for lethality isn't as good as it is for concealment.

The advice given here is fine in general, but most of it is aimed toward new players. David has been playing for years and knows all of this very well. For him to benefit here, he needs much more specific and descriptive advice (positioning, does and don't, words on optimal utilities etc.). The highest rank I ever archived on an oper (Scoundrel actually) was silver, and as such I am in no position to offer tactical advice and will leave that others.

TL;DR: Experienced ranked opers speak up

The advice given here is fine in general, but most of it is aimed toward new players. David has been playing for years and knows all of this very well. For him to benefit here, he needs much more specific and descriptive advice (positioning, does and don't, words on optimal utilities etc.). The highest rank I ever archived on an oper (Scoundrel actually) was silver, and as such I am in no position to offer tactical advice and will leave that others.

 

TL;DR: Experienced ranked opers speak up

He asked specific questions and got specific answers. The questions themselves were super novice level so thats why he gets these responses.

The advice given here is fine in general, but most of it is aimed toward new players. David has been playing for years and knows all of this very well. For him to benefit here, he needs much more specific and descriptive advice (positioning, does and don't, words on optimal utilities etc.). The highest rank I ever archived on an oper (Scoundrel actually) was silver, and as such I am in no position to offer tactical advice and will leave that others.

 

TL;DR: Experienced ranked opers speak up

Yeah ,

I was waiting for Prum to show up and was looking for his insight, but the best answer so far is given by Sharkii_boy !

Ideally you would use debilitator for 4 dps and tactician when support roles are involved, but you can't really go wrong with either. I tend to favor debilitator for concealment because the extra rolls helps your uptime and kiting, plus the double hardstun is really nice to set up kills or peel for a teammate.

With the tactician nerf, there is only around a 1-2k dps difference between tactician and debilitator. The dps increase from tactician is pretty negligible. I myself run debilitator.

If you are only pulling 6k dps in a warzone then you are way better off improving your uptime than focusing on your rotation for dps improvement. In order to do dps in swtor you need to be good at always pressing buttons and really persistent with staying in range of your opponent. Learning your rotation is important, but it is secondary to having good uptime.

This is pretty good advice. The rotation for conc op is pretty basic: volatile>veiled>backstab>lacerate 3x, I doubt your issue is rotational. Doing damage as conc operative is much more dependent on staying on your target. It seems simple, uptime is game skill that players have to learn regardless of class, but uptime is actually harder on operative than most other classes. Most melee classes have passive, off the gcd, speed boosts like marauder predation, powertech hydrolics, assassin force speed. In contrast, operative's main gap closer, roll, is on the GCD. If you start rolling every 3 seconds to get back on your target, you are going to see your dps fall fast because you will be wasting GCDs rolling instead of doing damage. My best recommendation is to actively practice keeping uptime without rolling in regs. There is no way to teach uptime for conc oper other than expierence.

As far as guides go Knin has a really good 6.0 guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hUexZ6tikkhz-n5DMaeo1KcvVxKM1P-r_FONG0afvks/edit. It doesn't really get into advanced operative gameplay, but it is good for a fundamental understanding of the class. If you want to message me in-game, I can offer much more help. I play SS and SF. If you /who prum you can probably find me. I'll also DM you with my new discord acc if you want.

With the tactician nerf, there is only around a 1-2k dps difference between tactician and debilitator. The dps increase from tactician is pretty negligible. I myself run debilitator.

 

 

 

This is pretty good advice. The rotation for conc op is pretty basic: volatile>veiled>backstab>lacerate 3x, I doubt your issue is rotational. Doing damage as conc operative is much more dependent on staying on your target. It seems simple, uptime is game skill that players have to learn regardless of class, but uptime is actually harder on operative than most other classes. Most melee classes have passive, off the gcd, speed boosts like marauder predation, powertech hydrolics, assassin force speed. In contrast, operative's main gap closer, roll, is on the GCD. If you start rolling every 3 seconds to get back on your target, you are going to see your dps fall fast because you will be wasting GCDs rolling instead of doing damage. My best recommendation is to actively practice keeping uptime without rolling in regs. There is no way to teach uptime for conc oper other than expierence.

 

As far as guides go Knin has a really good 6.0 guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hUexZ6tikkhz-n5DMaeo1KcvVxKM1P-r_FONG0afvks/edit. It doesn't really get into advanced operative gameplay, but it is good for a fundamental understanding of the class. If you want to message me in-game, I can offer much more help. I play SS and SF. If you /who prum you can probably find me. I'll also DM you with my new discord acc if you want.

Like Septru says, staying on target is probably where the problem is. I agree with that take.

I don't know if you do, but if you are a clicker you will perform vastly inferior to someone who key-binds on operatives especially. You might improve upon your own UI setup, even if you do key bind by watching players on Youtube learning their habits and their key bind setups. Sometimes it's just a matter of a better UI setup.

Anyway, keybinding allows you to easily stay on target and use your abilities while clicking sometimes creates a pause between transitioning between attacks and movement. You can't click and stay on target closely like someone who key-binds it's just a fact.

I just wanted to add this, for new players to understand, too. Even if you key bind, have perfect rotations now, and have the class mastered haha. Anyone clicking on an operative is performing at about 30% of the class' potential.

With the tactician nerf, there is only around a 1-2k dps difference between tactician and debilitator. The dps increase from tactician is pretty negligible. I myself run debilitator.

 

 

 

This is pretty good advice. The rotation for conc op is pretty basic: volatile>veiled>backstab>lacerate 3x, I doubt your issue is rotational. Doing damage as conc operative is much more dependent on staying on your target. It seems simple, uptime is game skill that players have to learn regardless of class, but uptime is actually harder on operative than most other classes. Most melee classes have passive, off the gcd, speed boosts like marauder predation, powertech hydrolics, assassin force speed. In contrast, operative's main gap closer, roll, is on the GCD. If you start rolling every 3 seconds to get back on your target, you are going to see your dps fall fast because you will be wasting GCDs rolling instead of doing damage. My best recommendation is to actively practice keeping uptime without rolling in regs. There is no way to teach uptime for conc oper other than expierence.

 

As far as guides go Knin has a really good 6.0 guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hUexZ6tikkhz-n5DMaeo1KcvVxKM1P-r_FONG0afvks/edit. It doesn't really get into advanced operative gameplay, but it is good for a fundamental understanding of the class. If you want to message me in-game, I can offer much more help. I play SS and SF. If you /who prum you can probably find me. I'll also DM you with my new discord acc if you want.

Thanks,

Yeah, you nailed it perfectly. My uptime sucks... and I roll to close the gap. I am marauder main so getting used to this alien class will take time. It's fun tho.. I like how it melts anyone 1v1 and has the tools to basically troll someone forever. It's very strong that even a noob like me can melt some hopeless jugg 1v1 .

Like Septru says, staying on target is probably where the problem is. I agree with that take.

 

I don't know if you do, but if you are a clicker you will perform vastly inferior to someone who key-binds on operatives especially. You might improve upon your own UI setup, even if you do key bind by watching players on Youtube learning their habits and their key bind setups. Sometimes it's just a matter of a better UI setup.

 

Anyway, keybinding allows you to easily stay on target and use your abilities while clicking sometimes creates a pause between transitioning between attacks and movement. You can't click and stay on target closely like someone who key-binds it's just a fact.

 

I just wanted to add this, for new players to understand, too. Even if you key bind, have perfect rotations now, and have the class mastered haha. Anyone clicking on an operative is performing at about 30% of the class' potential.

in his roatoation- can you translate what that would be for a scrapper?

I’ve always admired knin’s concealment guides: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hUexZ6tikkhz-n5DMaeo1KcvVxKM1P-r_FONG0afvks/edit

Assuming you’re using the Volatile Strike tactical (and you should be), your “rotation” revolves around the Blood Broiler—->Bludgeon—->Backblast autocrit combo burst window.

I’ve always admired knin’s concealment guides: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hUexZ6tikkhz-n5DMaeo1KcvVxKM1P-r_FONG0afvks/edit

 

Assuming you’re using the Volatile Strike tactical (and you should be), your “rotation” revolves around the Blood Broiler—->Bludgeon—->Backblast autocrit combo burst window.

He is taking Revitalizer like most would:

HEROIC: Revitalizers – Stim Boost now additionally grants Revitalizers, restoring 5% of total health every 3 seconds (equals to 25% hp healed) and reducing damage received by 20% for 15 seconds.

THIS IS A 100% MUST HAVE NO QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. This utility will save your butt so much you will never be able to pay it back.

But he is also using SB in the opener:

With that in mind, here is my normal opener for regular warzones / solo ranked matches: Volatile Substance + Stim boost > Tactical Overdrive > Veiled Strike > Backstab > Volatile Substance > 1 Laceration > Veiled Strike > Backstab. This is the best output in an opener I have found especially with the recent changes to tactician (READ 6.1.1 CHANGES).

Is this how most do it? I always thought it was better to save SB to deal with incoming damage.

Don't Stim Boost offensively if you think you're going to need it defensively.

It's a lot stronger as a defensive cooldown than as an offensive one*

*Granted you have Revitalizers, which you should.

TO / Hot Streak resets the CD of SB/Pugnacity, so we can still use it later as a DCD with that opener.

Typically, you will want to line up your SB+TO to be used at the same time, so that you can use SB again as needed.

TO / Hot Streak resets the CD of SB/Pugnacity, so he still can use it later as a DCD with that opener.

 

Typically, you will want to line up your SB+TO to be used at the same time, so that you can use SB again as needed.

Do you really think I didn't know that? The fact that you have 2 of them doesn't mean you can waste one.

Generally you'll want to be careful with when you use TO, it has numerous applications both offensively and defensively.

One thing to note is that if you havn't used SB yet and you're going to use TO, use it anyway even if you don't expect to gain much from it. Should be a given either way.

Do you really think I didn't know that? The fact that you have 2 of them doesn't mean you can waste one.

 

Generally you'll want to be careful with when you use TO, it has numerous applications both offensively and defensively.

One thing to note is that if you havn't used SB yet and you're going to use TO, use it anyway even if you don't expect to gain much from it. Should be a given either way.

Oh I was replying to lundorff, but didn't quote him (quotes of quotes). It didn't seem like he knew -- based on his post where he seems unsure about using it in the opener.

But yeah.... situational