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Juggernaut Tanking - Rotation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Juggernaut Tanking - Rotation

xardasf's Avatar


xardasf
01.23.2012 , 07:53 AM | #1
Ok so I've been reading about people complaining about tanking and aggro so I will try telling what works for me and what didn't. Right from that stars I want to say i will be talking about juggernaut tanking style only, I haven't played powertech or assassins, nor have I read about their skills and stuff. My theory is based on multiple raiding hard mode and normal: KP, EV, and hard modes instances.

These are my stats:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/735...2012315080.jpg

I got rakata gear, except pants, off-hand, earing and 1 implant. So I'd say I'm pretty decently geared. Anyways I wanna talk about skill rotation and here's where I will need some feedback from you guys, i'm open to suggestions.

Basic Rotation single target:


Charge > Force Scream(free) > Backhand > Choke (instant cast +3 rage) > Smash> Basic attack > Crushing Blow(1.5 sec animation) > Ravage > Retaliation(should be available by now). After this all that remains is sundering assault and basic attacks. Now this takes roughly about 10-12 seconds which is exactly the cool down of force scream and you use it again, 45 sec CD for choke. Funny thing is mid this rotation or after it, you lose aggro on that single target. You cannot regain aggro by using the skills in this rotation except a couple which do not generate aggro. You have to use single target taunt, and in those 6 seconds you can use a couple of the skills in the rotation but after those 6 seconds are up you lose aggro again. What am i doing wrong here please tell me.


Basic rotation on more than 3 targets:


Charge - Smash - Threatening Scream(aoe taunt) - Sweeping Slash (3 Rage cost aoe, with no CD). Now this is where it gets messy by the time u've done this you should have another smash but you don't ! Even with improved CD from talents. If one target slips, I select it and taunt it back. If another slips after I use force choke(instant). But if any after that slip i got backhand (4 sec stun) and after that nothing left to do. But wait for CD while everyone in raid screams Aggro Aggro Aggro, yes its frustrating i know. I tried finding a way around this which sometimes works...and that's spamming Sweeping Slash but even with instant 6 rage skill build up I can't spam it forever. Also about sweeping slash it does about cone in front of you so if u are surrounded by 4-5 mobs at a time you can only hit 3, you have to continuously spin the camera around (which makes u dizzy and run out of rage quick). Another things to mention since this is Star Wars and most mobs don't have swords and shields... the raged mobs are a pain. But let's say its a group of 5 mobs 2 melee 2 ranged and 1 is CC'ed. If i jump 1 of those ranged the other 2 melee are gonna come to me and I can i keep aggro on 3 with the rotation i mentions, but the other ranged even if I saber throw, i can't keep aggro on it. If I move to it to use my close range skills means I am not hitting the other 3 and i lose aggro on those, if i single target taunt that other ranged i wont be able to taunt one of those 3 after the escape, and so on...As you can see nearly impossible given with the current skill/talent set to keep aggro on a 4 man instance or a 8/16 man raid. Of course you might say by the time i've done all this they are dead and its easy, well not really ...

So any suggestions how do you keep aggro? Also i'd like to you if other classes have a hard time keeping aggro on single targets or multiple ones, I might re-roll.


BTW This is my spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101fzusuRrkzRZhZGb.1 i'm not gonna start explaining why i took that and not the other... for me its the optimal tanking spec for juggernaut after having tried many.
Life is just a chain reaction caused by environmental events

blaquelotus's Avatar


blaquelotus
01.23.2012 , 08:42 AM | #2
Sadly what I've experienced is that while you can set up a good theoretical priority rotation, the times I've been allowed to implement it is very seldom. It really all depends on timing, and what you're DPS is doing. DPS will not wait for you to glue down the encounter, I've given up on chasing that mythical beast. The most I hope for is that they'll actually let me attack first.

Anyway, for groups (99% of encounters) I usually try to gauge the best opener. If its a heavy armored "trooper type" I know they'll knock me back instantly and "stun" me. So I don't charge in. I either run in take the knock back and stun (often there is a multiple knock back and stuns) pray the party will chill to let this pass, and then when I come too enrage, smash, sweeping slash, sunder, then I basically try to keep my mitigation buffs/debuffs going (retaliation, shout, smash) while making sure I can drop the sweeping slash whenever possible.

Ideally you should be able to jump/run/loS your mobs, have the DPS CC one or two outliers and when this works out things go smoothly. If you're nailing your aoe abilities, and hitting your core mitigation abilities, and tabing through targets for your single target abilities. Then you're doing all you can. If the DPS pull off of you they need to chill, its not your fault. Because of cool downs (global and ability based) there is only so much you can do at a given moment. I think there is a level of relearning every position is going to have to give into in order to make encounters run smoothly. In SWTOR there is a one size fits all rotation or method.

xardasf's Avatar


xardasf
01.23.2012 , 12:56 PM | #3
Thank you , I really can get over the fact that the class/tank mechanics suck... and we are all used to WoW tank mechanics still when people talk smack about your tanking even though u are doing your best, now that pisses me off...If you haven't played the class don't talk. Same as i wouldn't talk about ur DPS class if I haven't played it. So only thing we can do is "educate" the epileptic DPS-ers.
Life is just a chain reaction caused by environmental events

Tyerion's Avatar


Tyerion
01.23.2012 , 01:48 PM | #4
I'm just level 45 right now, so this might not be relevant to high level 50 content or your gear, but I read somewhere that accuracy is our biggest threat boost till it hits 100 for non force attacks. I notice you went into the rage tree instead of vengeance. Maybe if you pick up imp sundering assault, dreadnaught and accuracy that might help.

Also, the opening rotation you use on single target is slightly different than the one I use. I saber throw, charge, force scream, sunder, smash, crushing, sunder, then backhand if I still have 3/4 a rage bar or force choke if I'm low. I usually have to use enrage to get all that done which is why I sometimes have enough rage to backhand.

After that I try to keep a rotation going where I have Force scream, sunder, x, smash, sunder, x, crushing, sunder, x where x will be backhand, force choke, vicious slash or normal attack. It never quite works out this way because of suns and knock backs, but that is my goal. I was using ravage till I got crushing blow but now I can't seem to find a place to put it in and it just made life hell for me trying to fit it in so I took it off my bar.

Not sure if that is the best way to go, but it is working for me so far. So this post may be a suggestion, but also a question. When I get to 50 will what I'm doing fail hard or does it have a chance of working?

I've seen a lot of jugg posts about tanks going heavy Vengeance to increase threat, so that may be an option too.

CeaphusIII's Avatar


CeaphusIII
01.23.2012 , 01:59 PM | #5
Ravage is fairly useless for tanking as it takes too long to complete the channel and the biggest damage comes in the last second of the attack. therefore i dont use it either besides when i'm just messing around solo grinding...My rotation for aoe tanking consists of charge, smash and sweeping slash, if i lose more than 1 mobs aggro i do threatening scream to get them all back the use my threat moves on the ones i lost. the best thing to do is practice this with your companion while questing, quinn is an aggro stealer if you have him geared so keeping aggro off him is good practice and he will be able to keep you healed through 4-5 mobs even with 2 strong in the mix.

Spewtin's Avatar


Spewtin
01.23.2012 , 02:39 PM | #6
I have a 50 juggernaut with mixed matched champ and T2 gear(mainly T2). I've found that our abilities just don't generate as much aggro as they should. I have 34 points in immortal and the rest in the second slot just so i could get the bump in strength. I've finished all the hardmodes a few times and raided a couple as well. With that being said i always put "guard" on the assassin in the group they're class seems to do pretty good dps but always generates a high amount of threat. On bosses I would rotate in with ----enrage, forcecharge, backhand, viscous slash, sundering assault and viscous slash. This rotation gets my threat up fast then ill keep going with my same technique popping enrage all the time when its cooled down. Ill taunt with my singular taunt the first time it peels and area the next. The cooldown on the single taunt is 15 seconds, so if your using your guard technique and popping enrage everytime its up then holding aggro is no sweat. I actually call out dps now for not burning down adds fast enough. A good tank can hold two mobs threat lvls at all times by ccing and area/single taunts. Any more mobs then that the dps should be burning them down fast and then helping you out. Its hard and yes i would like our abilities to generate more threat but when your geared up and running the hardmodes daily it'll come to ya. Hope this helps. Remember enrage on bosses is your best friend and always guard the assassin if you have one in a group. Thanks guys, later

areto's Avatar


areto
01.23.2012 , 03:58 PM | #7
Have any developers commented on how tanking should work in this game?

It seems like maybe as a juggernaut at least your job is to lock down the one or two big threats in a group while your dps burn down the lesser mobs, and take a bit of damage doing it.

But then again maybe I'm just a terrible tank.
“People speak sometimes about the "bestial" cruelty of man, but that is terribly unjust and offensive to beasts, no animal could ever be so cruel as a man, so artfully, so artistically cruel.”

Gorstog's Avatar


Gorstog
01.23.2012 , 04:10 PM | #8
The problem stems from the fact that Immortal Jugs just hit to darn weak. We focus purely on doing DPS and we do about 1/3 the DPS of the DPS classes but only gain about 50% more threat. The math says that we are going to lose aggro.

Tanking pretty much amounts to rotating your taunts on creatures to shut off hate generation for your allies during the duration of the taunts. And also setting guard on the ally who is most often pulling aggro (5% hate reduction can help). Other than that you are basically screwed since every single friggin boss fight is on a timer (Which is also really stupid) so you cannot have ppl go light DPS so you can build up a good amount of hate.

The PVE, heck even the PVP in this game is so lazily put together I cannot call it anything other than pathetic.

Hard mode = Creatures that have more HP and hit a little harder and rage after a period of time if you did not bring enough DPS. Real creative there guys.

Chat's Avatar


Chat
01.23.2012 , 04:17 PM | #9
I never feel the need to tell dps to back off. I'm saying push dps.