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How to Become a Contender: Supplemental(Bolster, PvP Gear, and You)


L-RANDLE

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[uPDATED 03/01/2015]:

Hey everyone, L-Randle here. I'm going to attempt to "patch proof" this thread to explain to people what bolster does and what levelers, noobs, and returning players need to know what to do and what not to do. First off, I would like to thank the community members that kept this thread alive in the last year and a half or so. I don't want to get into my personal gripes with the devs or the "Big Boss" on this game/IP I love, but seeing people with the fire and passion gives me hope. Enough to actually "want" to update this.

 

Before I begin, I would like to reiterate the universal things that affect you AND TEAMMATES in a WZ.

 

THERE IS ZERO EXCUSE TO BE AT LESS THAN 1900EXP IN A WZ, EVER!

Whether noob, leveler, BiS raider, or returning player, regardless of where the cutoff is, it EASY to get MAX bolster.

 

Every patch , every time.

 

If you don't do the minimum to be stat consistent in the WZ que, just about every person who enjoys legit competitive matches will assume you are a troll or a sadistic SOB and grant you no quarter. Get your mind right and actually don't ruin other people's enjoyment. PLEASE...

Next:

BEING AT MAX EXP ISNT 100% BiS ALL THE TIME.

 

It's situational. Old set bonuses are powerful, and better to carry than extra EXP. Weapon damage also still has issues. I have a mix build that actually is better than T1 PVP, but my EXP is slightly lower. You have to really "try" to fall below 1900. If you see people around 1930-1980, it's likely they found a slightly more favorable build, THESE PEOPLE DESERVE QUARTER. They have done their homework, and don't need to be trolled..

 

Now for specifics:

1. If you have old PVP gear, take it off, and source PVE gear at or below the cutoff shown below: The one, "good thing" BW did was make gear that bolsters almost as well (or better) than T1 PvP gear. In other words, if your PVP gear rating is below the bolster cutoff, PVE gear below the bolster cutoff is actually BETTER.

 

2. Check your bolstered EXP on the bolsterizer terminal mission deck for your respective capital ship (Gav, Zoist) BEFORE you que:. PLEASE do this. If you show up in gear that doesn't bolster correctly, you are BANTHA POO-DOO for the opposition. You eat 20-40% higher crits(!), whether properly PVE geared players or BIS PVP geared players..

 

Next is the legacy stuff about bolster.

 

TL: DR

1. Bolster works the same regardless of what level PVP you are in.

2. Test bolster in bolster environments.

3. Don't mix PVE mods with PVP mods in one particular item, UNLESS you "know what you are doing" (no EXP Armoring with PVP mods/enhancements)

4. Augments are still somewhat irrelevant to bolster calc, but NOW bolster give you a "basic augment" stat if you don't have one present (Blue Fortitude).

 

 

This as a supplemental to the main "contender" thread to discuss, confirm, and debunk some common traits that are present in the current bolster system. This will be aimed more towards new and returning players, as vets know that bolster is the wild Bantha, that even BW has yet to tame(explain), at least publicly. There has been many requests to post screenshots of what bolster is doing in certain situations, so I hope that my input will be helpful.

 

I am not submitting this to debate whether bolster should be present or how "strong" it should be. I want to maintain this thread as a help thread, not overly ripe with opinions. When I take the time to post these "long-winded" ones, I always want people to try to stay on task and keep the typical thread banter to a minimum. So with that, lets begin.

 

First, lets start with the basics:

Bolster is present in all levels of WZs. Whether your character is level 15 or 55, bolster works the same way. You can get a good idea of what levels your attack/heal ratings are from the start by hovering your mouse pointer over it and reading the tooltip value/range on the right (if using the default UI layout). This is crucial in how you approach bolster and whether a certain piece of gear yields better rating.

 

Ratings/Comparisions should be attained in bolster environments. With the complex nature of this mechanic, making determinations by stats, while outside of bolster environments, don't always tell the entire picture. Swap pieces inside of these environments.

 

Don't mix PvP modifications with PvE ones in a single item. I still see this one a lot, but is more for returning players. Previously, before bolster existed, there was a point where mixing say a +41 Power crystal (PvE), with a PvP mod and/or Enhancement was considered BiS for a MH/OH. This is no longer the case because of how bolster works. On one particular piece (say a weapon), if you mix, bolster will assume since "some" EXP is present, no additional EXP (by way of bolster) is needed. Bolster doesn't care what that number is, you get ZERO EXP from bolster, besides what is on the gear itself. The rule is: if you are not carrying MAX EXP, which is 2018, or at least something close to it (1800+), you are not only hurting yourself, but your teammates as well. Don't do it.

 

Bolster has no affect on Augments. There was a glitch in the way bolster looked at Augments, so BW removed them from consideration for bolster mechanics. This also means that "twinking" in lowbie is more pronounced than endgame, as the deltas between main/HP in the brackets are more skewed than endgame, where everyone is "about" the same level. I will speak more on this, as this thread continue [Edit], but understand the only REAL needs at endgame are Augments and stims. No using expense as an excuse, because getting credits is easy in this game. See this if you don't believe me....[/Edit]

For reference, the update will consist of two things. 1. The current bolster cutoff. 2. The observations, screens and tubes for myself and other members "proving" the gearing issues.

 

 

CUTOFF: The current cutoff for PROPERLY BOLSTERED PVE GEAR is item rating: 162

 

This is a general statement as SOME particular builds can outpace T1 PVP gear (WEAPON DAMAGE STILL BROKE........), but in general, you will get MAX bolster if your item level on each piece of gear is at, OR below, this level of PVE gear. If you step into a WZ with gear that is higher, you will eat a HUGE bolster nerf (in EXP). Unless you have direct proof lowering your bolster makes you more effective at your given role, DON'T WEAR IT IN A ZONE, YOU ARE A BURDEN, AND BEING CARRIED BY PLAYERS WHO ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT PVP BALANCE.

 

The only difference is in secondary stats. You want to attempt to get as close to the cutoff as possible, without killing your bankroll. Good thing BW gives you entry sets at or around the bolster cutoff(wink; wink for all those clamoring for the return of "recruit gear", LOL....)

 

Anyway, I hope this is good enough for now. I hope this is the return of the splash page for bolster. I will make it a point to link threads or tubes for members explaining the system. Also see below if you want my personal "Legacy Post" about it....

 

Happy Hunting All

 

L-Randle

 

 

PS: @ DEVS... GET RID OF PVP GEAR!!!! ITS ALWAYS BEEN THE BANE OF PVP IN THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!! MAKE IT A GAME ABOUT SKILL AND ROLE BALANCE ONL!!!!!

 

 

Next this section is dedicated to the members continuing the legacy of trying to improve PVP, due to lack of attention of the devs:

 

Icykill:

Icy has posted specific about the current system:

I've started a new thread for people to understand bolster and expertise... Please refer to it for more up to date info... I will reply to questions in that thread

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=795518

 

 

Quinan:

 

Also you should check out my video on how to bolster correctly here

 

EDIT: This is the video to show the difference between doing PvP with 1000 expertise against someone with 2018 expertise.

 

Edited by L-RANDLE
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Legacy Bolster SHTUFF

 

[LEGACY BOLSTER SHIZ]

 

Hello everyone. L-Randle here, providing more details about the current state of PvP gearing in the Bolster World we all know and love;). I am starting this as a supplemental to the main "contender" thread to discuss, confirm, and debunk some common traits that are present in the current bolster system. This will be aimed more towards new and returning players, as vets know that bolster is the wild Bantha, that even BW has yet to tame(explain), at least publicly. There has been many requests to post screenshots of what bolster is doing in certain situations, so I hope that my input will be helpful.

 

I am not submitting this to debate whether bolster should be present or how "strong" it should be. I want to maintain this thread as a help thread, not overly ripe with opinions. When I take the time to post these "long-winded" ones, I always want people to try to stay on task and keep the typical thread banter to a minimum. So with that, lets begin.

 

First, lets start with the basics:

Bolster is present in all levels of WZs. Whether your character is level 15 or 55, bolster works the same way. You can get a good idea of what levels your attack/heal ratings are from the start by hovering your mouse pointer over it and reading the tooltip value/range on the right (if using the default UI layout). This is crucial in how you approach bolster and whether a certain piece of gear yields better rating.

 

Ratings/Comparisions should be attained in bolster environments. With the complex nature of this mechanic, making determinations by stats, while outside of bolster environments, don't always tell the entire picture. Swap pieces inside of these environments.

 

Don't mix PvP modifications with PvE ones in a single item. I still see this one a lot, but is more for returning players. Previously, before bolster existed, there was a point where mixing say a +41 Power crystal (PvE), with a PvP mod and/or Enhancement was considered BiS for a MH/OH. This is no longer the case because of how bolster works. On one particular piece (say a weapon), if you mix, bolster will assume since "some" EXP is present, no additional EXP (by way of bolster) is needed. Bolster doesn't care what that number is, you get ZERO EXP from bolster, besides what is on the gear itself. The rule is: if you are not carrying MAX EXP, which is 2018, or at least something close to it (1800+), you are not only hurting yourself, but your teammates as well. Don't do it.

 

Bolster has no affect on Augments. There was a glitch in the way bolster looked at Augments, so BW removed them from consideration for bolster mechanics. This also means that "twinking" in lowbie is more pronounced than endgame, as the deltas between main/HP in the brackets are more skewed than endgame, where everyone is "about" the same level. I will speak more on this, as this thread continue [Edit], but understand the only REAL needs at endgame are Augments and stims. No using expense as an excuse, because getting credits is easy in this game. See this if you don't believe me....[/Edit]

 

 

Now for the "good" stuff:

As a basis, I am using my Carnage spec Mara that is geared mostly in Obroan gear to test whether certain items are more favorable in PvP. Here is the basis:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOROBROANWEAPON_zps3d0818a2.png

 

With this build my rating for Force Scream/Blade Storm (for Pubs) is 2998. I will base the proceeding observations based on this number.

 

A few items, namely my MH(weapon damage/Force Power considerations), my gloves(non-weapon modifiable gear), and implants(non-modifiable gear) will be examined as to how they are affected by Bolster. TBH, there are even more combinations from what I will post, but, as I said earlier, this is geared more towards new players and returning players, so I am trying to limit this to a few items and provide advice.

 

 

Bolster current cut-off is level 66 Purples before a diminishing return on Bolster EXP starts.

Here is a screen of my toon with ALL crafted purple 66 modifications in my weapon. As you can see, my EXP drops to 1962. This is not favorable, as the EXP drop is too much, for the minor main stat gain. I hope that you all trust me when I say, any moddable piece, with all 66 purples or higher in each slot, will get a harsh DR on Bolster EXP. This is not advisable.

 

PvE combinations for MH/OH are BiS for PvP. As much as it pisses me off something fierce, MANY PvE combinations are close/BIS for PvP on MHs/OHs. My surge and crit are pretty much the same across the board(19%/76%). As long as you don't sacrifice Bolstered EXP, these are more favorable than Obroan MH/OH. Here are some screens:

Crafted 58 Purples: Force Scream: 3008

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR58PurpleWeapon_zps3077d8fa.png

Classic/Crafted 61 Purples: Force Scream: 3010

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR61PURPLEWEAPON_zps4da5419c.png

 

I also assume Lvl 63 purples and/or a mix and match combo(69/63/61) will also be more favorable than Obroan MH/OH, but I think these screens are enough to know that Obroan weapons are not even as good as crafted 58 purples, which in turn, makes them useless outside of OWPVP. You can get crafted/classic purples at level 50 for these items and be so close to BiS, you won't have to change anything upon entry to endgame PvP.

 

 

Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, modifiable pieces. Outside of the MH/OH, Obroan does give a slight advantage in PvP, but with the cost of acquisition of Obroan, its not going to "kill you" not to be BiS, even for ranked. Please note, I switched back to my Obroan weapon to get back to my basis for a proper comparison.

Crafted 58 Purples: Force Scream: 2989

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR58PURPLEGLOVES_zpse9956ade.png

Classic/Crafted 61 Purples: Force Scream: 2987

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR61PURPLEGLOVES_zps6fa83840.png

 

Level 63 and possibly some other combinations might yield a similar number to Obroan, but again the number are so close, that carrying any of these are just as favorable. or you can just min/max Obroan and be done with it with no experimentation.

 

Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, non-modifiable pieces. I didn't compare Obroan on Ear piece, it is BiS, just barely again though (no screens, but I will if you want). I did however test Conq implants versus my Crafted Purples (which were on the basis build; Force Scream=2998). Please note, I switched back to my Obroan Weapon and Obroan Gloves to get back to my basis for a proper comparison.

 

Conq Implants(2EA): Force Scream: 2977

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORCONQIMPLANTS_zps80e4309d.png

 

So these are a clear nerf to crafted purples like these: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/50060-1012/expert-experimental-might-package

Which are what I have been wearing since 2.0.

 

Conclusion for Noobs(I say that with <3) and Returners that are entering 55 endgame PvP:

 

Contrary to popular belief, you don't need PvP gear to be competitive @ 55, even for ranked. Hopefully, I provided enough for people to understand bolster works better for new entries, than it does for "geared vets". The level of your modifications are minor before level 66 items because bolster gives HP/MAIN/EXP to close the gap, or, in some cases, eliminates it entirely, so PvP gear is not "needed" to be successful. Most of these items are attainable before your toon get to level 55. Plan accordingly.

 

Augments/Stims are the greatest delta in stats for endgame PvP. As I stated earlier, Augments are not included in bolster calculations. You can use MK-9 Augment kits at level 1, and you can buy endgame Augments to fill them at level 1. While you can't put the Augments into your gear until level 55, having them ready upon hitting 55 is key. With the above info, and endgame Augments, you can/will be MORE than on par with BiS Obroan players in some cases. When I hit 55 on my Sniper, I had 30K HP, full EXP and 750 bonus damage. That is on par with my base build, with mostly Obroan stuff, on my Mara. Plan accordingly.

 

 

Use this for a basis for PVP gear progression. Basically, when you hit 55 you should be buying PvP relics and non-weapon based, modifiable PvP pieces (which min/maxing those are a priority). If you happen to not have/find a crafter or have enough planetary/classic/elite comms for the other items (implants, ear, MH/OH), buy Conq/Obroan, but understand, they will need to be replaced. Plan accordingly.

 

[Edit] Upon further review, you should concentrate on min/maxing set bonus pieces and PvP relics only. Then trickle in the other stuff (Except for MH/OH which are 100% BiS)[/Edit]

 

 

Gear don't help L2P and balancing issues. Even with all this info. Understanding when and why to do things in WZ is far more valuable in PvP, than gear is. If you play more, you generally will be more successful. Class balance, team comp, knowing how to counter/knowing bad matchups, and ability to press buttons have far more of an impact than gear does. Temper expectations, dont quit because the going gets tough, and plan accordingly.

 

I posted this in the hope it would we stickied and not deleted by the Dread Masters(BW). Wish me luck!:D

The TL:DR version is:

@ 55

Buy your BiS Obroan PvP relics (2600RWZ COMMS; 1400 URWZ COMMS).

Augment everything.

 

Then,

Buy 4EA Obroan Moddable Non-Weapon Pieces for your set bonus (or in and Operative's case 2 PvP pieces + 2 PvE pieces)(10,000RWZ COMMS, 4000 URWZ COMMS).

Min/Max those 4 pieces.

 

Then,

Replace other pieces with BiS Obroan ONLY(except for MH/OH), as that is the only upgrade, but its not by much as I showed in the last update..

 

My newborn is crying so I'll leave it at this. More observations are welcome as I reserved another front page spot to adjust anything.

 

Regards,

L-Randle[Reserved]

For Advanced Users:

 

I also just looked at Belt. Here are the results:

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOROBROANBELT_zps820998ef.png

Using my BiS Obroan my Force Scream was rated at 3172

 

Here is a 58 purple/69 purple combo: Force Scream = 3170

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORPVEBELT_zpse2d53159.png

 

I did lose 170HP, and .02% crit rating, but I can say that with the sunk cost of obtaining a BiS Obroan Belt/Bracer, I would have rather spent those comms elsewhere. Also I should add, since you only need 4 pieces for set bonus, you could choose not to replace one(hands/feet/legs/chest/head) of the right side items, plus the belt and bracer, and MH, and OH, and the implants/ear until you are fully min/max on the set bonus items and have BiS relics.

 

Edited by L-RANDLE
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What I get from this is what I already expected. The difference between all the trouble and lengths of exploiting bolster vs just using the PvP gear as it comes is.... less than 100 base ability damage.

 

This game is not so tightly/competitively tuned that it matters

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Good read L.

 

What I get from this is what I already expected. The difference between all the trouble and lengths of exploiting bolster vs just using the PvP gear as it comes is.... less than 100 base ability damage.

 

This game is not so tightly/competitively tuned that it matters

 

The problem is, a lot of people don't realize they can get close to the same stats as the fully geared and show up significantly below 30k HP and without augments or stims. Or; there is a large portion who spend their initial level 55 coms on MH/OH and that does not help them nearly as much as the augments. All variances asside for how close or not you are with or without gear and bolster; it has become pretty constant on what you can do to minimize and sort of gap. Hopefully this guide could help others to see that without having to explain it every other day.

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What I get from this is what I already expected. The difference between all the trouble and lengths of exploiting bolster vs just using the PvP gear as it comes is.... less than 100 base ability damage.

 

This game is not so tightly/competitively tuned that it matters

 

Where the controvesy is though is the fact that you can buy items from the GTN and those items will bolster better than conqueror gear. In essence, for new players/characters it may be beneficial to not wear pvp gear or defer certain purchases of pvp gear. This guide also does not take into account set bonuses. For example, the scoundrel PvE set bonus increases their AOE heal by 15% whereas the PvP set bonus increases dodge by 1 second. A 15% PvE set bonus, while 10pts lower (hypothetical) stat wise is made better than Obroan PvP gear due to the set bonus.

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So what I'm getting out of this is that you get the conquerer gear and just put the pve purple (58's) or (61's) and your instantly competitive and it is better than having expertise in your gear? I say this because I have full conqueror and my saber is Obroan. I sit roughly over 28k health my bonus damage is only 624 while I see others with about 800 and while mostly everyone else I see has 30k+. (I'm a deception assassion fyi)

 

That just makes no sense to me

Edited by Oakie
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So what I'm getting out of this is that you get the conquerer gear and just put the pve purple (58's) or (61's) and your instantly competitive and it is better than having expertise in your gear? I say this because I have full conqueror and my saber is Obroan. I sit roughly over 28k health my bonus damage is only 624 while I see others with about 800 and while mostly everyone else I see has 30k+. (I'm a deception assassion fyi)

 

That just makes no sense to me

 

You should be able to hit real close to 30 K with fresh 55 greeens, really. Do you have full augments?

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You should be able to hit real close to 30 K with fresh 55 greeens, really. Do you have full augments?

 

No I haven't fully augmented my gear yet...just my saber...do you think that is the problem? If I augment all my gear I could have around 30k health? But say I were to do that...is there even a point of getting obroan then?

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Thank you for putting this together Randle! I can vouch for it's accuracy as I have a advanced might hilt 30 with 61 mod/enhancement main and off hands that bolster to better than my Obroan. It annoys me that PvP gear is sub par in PvP and that I have to use PvE gear to BIS. I think 63's bolster even better than what I've got. bioware needs to address Bolster.
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No I haven't fully augmented my gear yet...just my saber...do you think that is the problem? If I augment all my gear I could have around 30k health? But say I were to do that...is there even a point of getting obroan then?

 

Since its in the guide, I will just quote it

 

 

Augments/Stims are the greatest delta in stats for endgame PvP. As I stated earlier, Augments are not included in bolster calculations. You can use MK-9 Augment kits at level 1, and you can buy endgame Augments to fill them at level 1. While you can't put the Augments into your gear until level 55, having them ready upon hitting 55 is key. With the above info, and endgame Augments, you can/will be MORE than on par with BiS Obroan players in some cases. When I hit 55 on my Sniper, I had 30K HP, full EXP and 750 bonus damage. That is on par with my base build, with mostly Obroan stuff, on my Mara. Plan accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

And as far as needing to bother with gear; it depends on what you want to do. If you want to do some open world PvP, you will need the latest PvP gear. if not, well; you might look at how to min/max your gear but you probably won't worry about that unless you are going to be very competetive.

 

EDIT: Another note to add in even if redundant. NEVER augment any shells you will eventually trade if for future gear. This includes the current top PvP gear. Augment adaptive armor and then put your mods into it. Save yourself some coin later.

Edited by Technohic
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Since its in the guide, I will just quote it

 

 

 

 

And as far as needing to bother with gear; it depends on what you want to do. If you want to do some open world PvP, you will need the latest PvP gear. if not, well; you might look at how to min/max your gear but you probably won't worry about that unless you are going to be very competetive.

 

EDIT: Another note to add in even if redundant. NEVER augment any shells you will eventually trade if for future gear. This includes the current top PvP gear. Augment adaptive armor and then put your mods into it. Save yourself some coin later.

 

Well I'm trying to get good enough gear to do competitive ranked. So I guess I have to Augment each one of my pieces and then get the pve purples. Good lord min/maxing is expensive

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I think I've got the crux of what you're saying, but I have a couple questions.

 

You note the purple 66s reach the DR for bolster and recommend the purple 61s and 63s. Did you do any testing with blue 66s? It's been awhile since I've looked, it may be that the purple 63s are better than the blue 66s, I just can't remember.

 

I have blue 66s all the way across in my PVP gear, except for the pieces I've now upgraded to Conq/Obroan for the set bonus on my Mara. My expertise last time I looked was still bolstered up to 2017.

 

One of the first things I upgraded was to an Obroan relic (can't remember the name, but it was the recommended one for Maras). And I'm using the matrix cube in the other slot for now. Any data on how the matrix cube is bolstered vs. the a second Conq or Obroan relic?

 

And I got slightly confused with the implant section. Are you saying that crafted implants are still BiS? Or that they are better than Conq but not Obroan?

 

Thanks for all your work on this!

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I think I've got the crux of what you're saying, but I have a couple questions.

 

You note the purple 66s reach the DR for bolster and recommend the purple 61s and 63s. Did you do any testing with blue 66s? It's been awhile since I've looked, it may be that the purple 63s are better than the blue 66s, I just can't remember.

 

I have blue 66s all the way across in my PVP gear, except for the pieces I've now upgraded to Conq/Obroan for the set bonus on my Mara. My expertise last time I looked was still bolstered up to 2017.

 

One of the first things I upgraded was to an Obroan relic (can't remember the name, but it was the recommended one for Maras). And I'm using the matrix cube in the other slot for now. Any data on how the matrix cube is bolstered vs. the a second Conq or Obroan relic?

 

And I got slightly confused with the implant section. Are you saying that crafted implants are still BiS? Or that they are better than Conq but not Obroan?

 

Thanks for all your work on this!

 

lvl 66 blues are 148 rating and are below lvl 63 purps which are 150 rating, and they do get fully bolstered.

 

Dps BiS relics are spenditious assault (power proc) and focused retribution (main stats proc). Just to give you an idea, spenditious assault gives 187.5 power (625*6/20) and focused retribution provides minimum 196.875 main stats with inquisitor buff (625*1.05*6/20). Matrix cube is no where close. Even conquer provides better stats than matrix cube.

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this is actual great to know I have an alt that will be hitting 55 soon and its good to know that I don't need to grind for months to participate in solo ranked arenas

 

I started trading PVP weapons (the 900 comm blue ones) at level 30. when I hit 55, I had enough weapons to get full obroan fully min maxed with a bit left over. That was 63 weapons.

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It's absolutely absurd that someone can be fully min/maxed in the highest tier of pvp gear and not be BiS for PvP. But given that Bioware continues to insist on using their deeply flawed bolster system in rated pvp, players have a right to know how to properly utilize that system if they truly care about being BiS for top-tier pvp.

 

This is a good guide; that said, I would recommend you take another look at 2 sections of your guide and consider editing the original post to be more accurate.

 

Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, modifiable pieces.

 

The answer to whether Obroan is BiS for non-weapon, modifiable pieces depends on your class. If your spec in your class needs the pvp set bonus tied to the Obroan gear, then yes, "Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, modifiable pieces." However, if your spec in your class either doesn't need the pvp set bonus or needs a pve set bonus, then you should not be wearing Obroan.

 

(For example, Bioware in their infinite wisdom removed the 15% boost to Kolto Cloud from the pvp set bonus in 2.0 so now it's only found as a pve set bonus. Therefore, it is preferable for healer scoundrels to be running a 2 piece pve set bonus for pvp.)

 

If you don't need the pvp set bonus, then Obroan is not BiS for non-weapon, modifiable pieces. Instead, you should be running a 69, 63, 61 combination, same as your mainhand/offhand. I suspect the reason you chose to show setups with straight 58's and straight 61's is that you don't have the necessary 69 and 63 pieces, but it's probably a good idea to make clear in your guide that a 69, 63, 61 setup is BiS for mainhand/offhand/armor (if you don't need the pvp set bonus).

 

Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, non-modifiable pieces.

 

Once again, the answer to whether Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, non-modifiable pieces depends on your class. What we're really talking about here are the "Experimental" level 54 crafted implants. And again, the genius of Bioware comes into play.

 

(The "Experimental" implants each exist with different secondary/tertiary stat combinations depending on whether it's an aim, cunning, strength, or willpower piece. In order for the implant to be BiS over Obroan, it must have a ton of power on it. It will only have a sufficient amount of power if a green version exists with power as the original secondary stat so that it can be possible to reverse engineer it to a purple where the only secondary stat is a massive amount of power, rather than having to split the secondary stat allotment between power and crit.)

 

An "Experimental" implant with power as the only secondary stat does not exist for cunning and strength, but does exist for aim and it might for willpower though I'm not positive. This means that if you're a class that uses aim (possibly willpower), the "Expert Experimental" implant will be BiS over Obroan.

 

 

Bolster has no place in ranked pvp, but if Bioware insists on keeping its broken system in place, pvp'ers need to know how it works and how to deal with it since pvp gear is not BiS for pvp.

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It's absolutely absurd that someone can be fully min/maxed in the highest tier of pvp gear and not be BiS for PvP. But given that Bioware continues to insist on using their deeply flawed bolster system in rated pvp, players have a right to know how to properly utilize that system if they truly care about being BiS for top-tier pvp.

 

This is a good guide; that said, I would recommend you take another look at 2 sections of your guide and consider editing the original post to be more accurate.

 

 

 

The answer to whether Obroan is BiS for non-weapon, modifiable pieces depends on your class. If your spec in your class needs the pvp set bonus tied to the Obroan gear, then yes, "Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, modifiable pieces." However, if your spec in your class either doesn't need the pvp set bonus or needs a pve set bonus, then you should not be wearing Obroan.

 

(For example, Bioware in their infinite wisdom removed the 15% boost to Kolto Cloud from the pvp set bonus in 2.0 so now it's only found as a pve set bonus. Therefore, it is preferable for healer scoundrels to be running a 2 piece pve set bonus for pvp.)

 

If you don't need the pvp set bonus, then Obroan is not BiS for non-weapon, modifiable pieces. Instead, you should be running a 69, 63, 61 combination, same as your mainhand/offhand. I suspect the reason you chose to show setups with straight 58's and straight 61's is that you don't have the necessary 69 and 63 pieces, but it's probably a good idea to make clear in your guide that a 69, 63, 61 setup is BiS for mainhand/offhand/armor (if you don't need the pvp set bonus).

 

 

 

Once again, the answer to whether Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, non-modifiable pieces depends on your class. What we're really talking about here are the "Experimental" level 54 crafted implants. And again, the genius of Bioware comes into play.

 

(The "Experimental" implants each exist with different secondary/tertiary stat combinations depending on whether it's an aim, cunning, strength, or willpower piece. In order for the implant to be BiS over Obroan, it must have a ton of power on it. It will only have a sufficient amount of power if a green version exists with power as the original secondary stat so that it can be possible to reverse engineer it to a purple where the only secondary stat is a massive amount of power, rather than having to split the secondary stat allotment between power and crit.)

 

An "Experimental" implant with power as the only secondary stat does not exist for cunning and strength, but does exist for aim and it might for willpower though I'm not positive. This means that if you're a class that uses aim (possibly willpower), the "Expert Experimental" implant will be BiS over Obroan.

 

 

Bolster has no place in ranked pvp, but if Bioware insists on keeping its broken system in place, pvp'ers need to know how it works and how to deal with it since pvp gear is not BiS for pvp.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

As for the "Experimental" implants, yes there are no "Power" heavy ones for STR and CUN, but the purples I have on my Mara can be RE'd to have 4 secondary stats, while the PvP ones only have 2:

(64) Expert Experimental Might Package [superior]

Total Stats:

+94 Strength

+114 Endurance

+46 Accuracy Rating

+62 Power

+52 Critical Rating

+62 Surge Rating

 

(67) Obroan Vindicator's MK-1 Package

+145 Strength

+156 Endurance

+150 Expertise Rating

+72 Power

+68 Surge Rating

 

Since the Surge stat has a huge DR and most people are carrying it elsewhere, that Surge difference is moot. The difference in Power equals 2HP in favor of Obroan. So you get Free Critical, Free Accuracy, and END/MAIN/EXP are pretty much equivalent due to bolster.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that this is geared (pun intended) more towards new entries and returners. I also am trying to be somewhat class independent as spec/class does play a role in "what to wear". In all, my point is that, set bonus excluded, most PvE gear combinations yield stats that are on par with BiS Obroan, so it is far more important to focus on the stuff that matters, L2P, Augments, and stims.

Edited by L-RANDLE
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Well I'm trying to get good enough gear to do competitive ranked. So I guess I have to Augment each one of my pieces and then get the pve purples. Good lord min/maxing is expensive

 

Well part of what this thread is trying to convey is that, more than likely, what you are already wearing is close enough, and spending tons of time and credits is not exactly needed, outside of augments and stims. If your crit is around 20% and your multiplier is around 73-74%, you are fine...

 

 

I think I've got the crux of what you're saying, but I have a couple questions.

 

You note the purple 66s reach the DR for bolster and recommend the purple 61s and 63s. Did you do any testing with blue 66s? It's been awhile since I've looked, it may be that the purple 63s are better than the blue 66s, I just can't remember.

 

I have blue 66s all the way across in my PVP gear, except for the pieces I've now upgraded to Conq/Obroan for the set bonus on my Mara. My expertise last time I looked was still bolstered up to 2017.

 

One of the first things I upgraded was to an Obroan relic (can't remember the name, but it was the recommended one for Maras). And I'm using the matrix cube in the other slot for now. Any data on how the matrix cube is bolstered vs. the a second Conq or Obroan relic?

 

And I got slightly confused with the implant section. Are you saying that crafted implants are still BiS? Or that they are better than Conq but not Obroan?

 

Thanks for all your work on this!

I didn't try blues as they are below the cutoff, but again, the difference between blue 66 and purple 58's are minor. Players should choose based on "what is the cheapest". Whether its by getting planetary comms, buying from the GTN, or crafting them yourself, choose the path of least resistance before you hit 55, and you will be fine.

 

For the implants, see my post above. BiS can mean a lot of things. If you value stat diversity, then the Crafted Purples are BiS (my stance). Some people value raw attack ratings more, but in the end, they are soooooo damn close, it really doesn't matter, so long as you augment either.

Edited by L-RANDLE
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These are really helpful posts. Thanks to all who have contributed. But I am still confused about two naming conventions that appear to be accepted to refer to item modifications.

 

First, people keep talking about crafted level 66 purples. My understanding is that this means crafted items that require level 53 to equip. But such items don't list level 66 anywhere on them (at least in game that I can see). How do I tell what items are level 69, 66, level 63 and level 61 etc.?

 

Second, jboehm states "that a 69, 63, 61 setup is BiS for mainhand/offhand/armor (if you don't need the pvp set bonus)." I take it that the "69, 63, 61" refers to some combination of the armoring, mod and enhancement. What order is being referred to?

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These are really helpful posts. Thanks to all who have contributed. But I am still confused about two naming conventions that appear to be accepted to refer to item modifications.

 

First, people keep talking about crafted level 66 purples. My understanding is that this means crafted items that require level 53 to equip. But such items don't list level 66 anywhere on them (at least in game that I can see). How do I tell what items are level 69, 66, level 63 and level 61 etc.?

 

Second, jboehm states "that a 69, 63, 61 setup is BiS for mainhand/offhand/armor (if you don't need the pvp set bonus)." I take it that the "69, 63, 61" refers to some combination of the armoring, mod and enhancement. What order is being referred to?

 

when you actually equip the mod, a number will show up next to it.

(66) Advanced Might Hilt 28

Hilt (Item Modifications)

 

Total Stats:

Weapon Damage/Power Rating 156

+74 Strength

+61 Endurance

 

In bold is the "item level". If you want to see this in game hover over a piece of gear and the item number will appear on the right side of the modification stats.

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