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Dual Specializations and You!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Dual Specializations and You!

qqemokitty's Avatar


qqemokitty
12.14.2011 , 01:09 PM | #11
Yeah I love the idea too. I personally felt that Rift went a little too far (who needs 5 specs, really??) but then the system was a little different.

I'd love to have the opportunity to try out pew pew lightning. Leveling as a healer is my pleasure but at end game there are definitely times where having a dps spec on hand is very useful.
Let them see what is not there, and feel what does not touch them.
When they no longer trust their senses... that is the time to strike.

DrGerm's Avatar


DrGerm
12.14.2011 , 01:57 PM | #12
I see no reason whatsoever for not having dual-spec. Otherwise is plain NOT fun.

cybermanikan's Avatar


cybermanikan
12.14.2011 , 02:18 PM | #13
Having also come from CoH/CoV I am used to the idea of having multiple builds. They made sense within that game's framework, though. In WoW I dual-spec'd a Paladin but it was for very off-moment times. In the end, to me, I am in favor of choice--and like the OP said especially later as this game matures and we all (including Bioware) have more experience with SWTOR gameplay.

While I understand the fellow who suggested a driving metaphor for playing different classes I also do "get accustomed" to playing any individual character a certain way. I'm not averse to suggesting to a team that I could fill in a needed gap but I am averse to teams demanding players change rolls (in general). When the team is used to playing together, however, it's just a matter of communication and team planning.

So, after a year this thread should have even deeper insights. In the end if Bioware implements dual-spec they will probably have lots of game mechanics in mind. I'm all for player choice. Whether I chose to dual-spec will depend on whether it's useful for me, however.

_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
12.14.2011 , 03:11 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Krytycal View Post
There are simply no reasons not to implement dual specs. The only people that are against it are minority of healers and unique butterflies who for some reason want to remain as a valued commodity and don't want to increase their numbers by people who aren't main healers being able to switch to full heals. They don't want their monopoly on healing/tanking/whatever taken away. They want to feel speshul.

The arguments are of course silly. I've healed and DPSed in plenty MMOs. Heck, the spec I'm rolling with is a healer/dps hybrid so I won't even gain much from dual spec. The people who think healing is more difficult than DPSing are delusional, or have never been good DPSers. Both styles of gameplay pretty much require the same core skills: spatial awareness, knowing your enemy and your team, knowledge of the game mechanics, dexterity with the mouse and keyboard, etc.

Honestly, the classes in this game aren't that complicated, least of all sorcs. Give a good player a sorc, either healer or DPS, and he'll get the hang of it fast. Bad players will be bad no matter what class they play. I'd personally rather have someone that I know is good at DPSing switch to healing than some random healer I don't know.

Playing MMOs is like driving. Sure, the cars (classes) might change a bit (weight, transmission, etc) but a good driver will still be a good driver regardless of car. A bad driver can drive the same car for any number of years and still be a ****** driver.
Did you read this thread? Not one person said anything like that.

Also just because I can drive any car doesn't mean I want to jump from a sports car into a jeep. Playing any class in any game is easy for most people who know what they are doing, but it isn't necessarily fun.
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

SySnootles's Avatar


SySnootles
12.14.2011 , 06:17 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Krytycal View Post
There are simply no reasons not to implement dual specs. The only people that are against it are minority of healers and unique butterflies who for some reason want to remain as a valued commodity and don't want to increase their numbers by people who aren't main healers being able to switch to full heals. They don't want their monopoly on healing/tanking/whatever taken away. They want to feel speshul.

The arguments are of course silly. I've healed and DPSed in plenty MMOs. Heck, the spec I'm rolling with is a healer/dps hybrid so I won't even gain much from dual spec. The people who think healing is more difficult than DPSing are delusional, or have never been good DPSers. Both styles of gameplay pretty much require the same core skills: spatial awareness, knowing your enemy and your team, knowledge of the game mechanics, dexterity with the mouse and keyboard, etc.

Honestly, the classes in this game aren't that complicated, least of all sorcs. Give a good player a sorc, either healer or DPS, and he'll get the hang of it fast. Bad players will be bad no matter what class they play. I'd personally rather have someone that I know is good at DPSing switch to healing than some random healer I don't know.

Playing MMOs is like driving. Sure, the cars (classes) might change a bit (weight, transmission, etc) but a good driver will still be a good driver regardless of car. A bad driver can drive the same car for any number of years and still be a ****** driver.
Asking a DPS class to use their "weaker" geared Healer role, in the case of a Sorcerer for example, might get your group started faster but you will be missing out on an excellent damage dealer as a trade off... and these days, longer clear times for flashpoints are a big issue with a lot of the community used to 15m Heroics in WoW.

You cant generalize a class role as broadly as you just did, well... you can, and did, but it doesn't mean its true. DPS rotations and mana efficiency are different, synergies and rhythm are different. A good damage dealer doesn't make a good healer.

Krytycal's Avatar


Krytycal
12.14.2011 , 06:50 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by SySnootles View Post
Asking a DPS class to use their "weaker" geared Healer role, in the case of a Sorcerer for example, might get your group started faster but you will be missing out on an excellent damage dealer as a trade off... and these days, longer clear times for flashpoints are a big issue with a lot of the community used to 15m Heroics in WoW.

You cant generalize a class role as broadly as you just did, well... you can, and did, but it doesn't mean its true. DPS rotations and mana efficiency are different, synergies and rhythm are different. A good damage dealer doesn't make a good healer.
Top sorc gear is exactly the same for DPS and Healing sorcs, they both come with Willpower, Power, Critical, Alacrity, etc, which benefits both heals and DPS. Any argument against dual specs for sorcs based on gear is a moot point.

I've both healed and DPSed extensively on my sorc. If we were talking Bounty Hunter here, I'd agree that it takes a little more effort to truly get the hang of it, but it's ridiculously easy to heal or DPS on sorcs with just a couple of firing braincells. Healing rotations and a DPS rotations are similar in that they both should try to maximize efficiency (i.e. using Force Lightning and Innervate to maximize D/HPM) while taking advantage of the synergies each tree offers (i.e. Force Bending and Wrath procs) when available. For someone who's familiar with the core mechanics of a class, the only things that change are the abilities you'll use with each spec.

It's actually harder to go from a DPS sorc to another DPS class than to switch roles within sorc. I do agree with one thing though, you'd miss out on some solid damage if you ask a good DPS to switch to healer.

I'm not saying people should change roles, I'm against forcing anyone to do anything. People should play whatever they enjoy playing the most, and if you don't want to play as a particular role, simply don't. My posts were mostly aimed to those who have this idea that sorc healing is extremely complicated and hard to master. It isn't.

takenleaders's Avatar


takenleaders
12.15.2011 , 12:46 PM | #17
I'm personally a huge fan of dual specs. While I consider myself primarily a DPS in most games, 99% of the time I'm a tank or healer in parties with my friends/family. I like when it's easy to swap between my "off time" (DPS) and my "serious time" (support). Having to go respec each time my partner and I group up with our friends is a PITA. Basically, I'll still have a dual spec in the sense that I'll have two specs I swap between, but it will be much clunkier in this game then in say WoW.

Fallenlore's Avatar


Fallenlore
12.15.2011 , 12:48 PM | #18
Duel spec's makes sense, and if TOR released WITH duel specs I would have been impressed. I mean, how difficult is it to implement if you have a system that accounts for respecing already right?

I would actually be in favor of THREE spec choices or Triple Spec. I have played many toons in WoW and there's so much diversity in each character's progression. For example I mainly started a priest to heal raids. By the end game, I had enough gear to switch to pve dps when needed. This gives your toon major flexibility and allows raid leaders to truely bring the player and not the class. If you fulfill multiple roles, then can count on you to meet the needs of the raid group and not have to find someone else.

For the folks who only want to dps on a sorc, you clearly have that option as well. Just explain your 2nd spec is for pvp or whatever and they won't force you into healing. No one should force you to do anything in this game, you pay for it and you should play what you want.

Now saying that, you never know what you might like or not. I initially played a paladin and found myself dual spec healing at one point and I actually enjoyed it. Not only are there a lack of healers, there's a huge lack of GOOD healers in WoW. So I filled that niche and enjoyed a different aspect of the game than I originally started.

I generally like to stay on one toon if possible, just find leveling to be sort of dull once you've done it a few times. So I would prefer to have my AC be able to fill as many roles as I can. Now saying that, that's where triple spec comes into play.

Normally people play an AC with 2 role possibilities. Sith ***'s can tank or dps. Sith Sorc's can heal or dps. Then you throw in the pvp aspect, which is totally different than PvE. You would pickup the PvP talents instead, maybe even use a hybrid build. That's why I would like triple spec in the game:

1) Main PvE Spec
2) Offspec for PvE
3) PvP oriented spec

Folks that have played paladins or druids in WoW know where I'm coming from. They can play tank, healer, or dps and are limited by duel spec's. If they want to PvP, that's a 4th spec. And druids can be ranged or melee dps, which could even warrent a FIFTH spec. Three spec's is plenty for me though.

MrSteak's Avatar


MrSteak
12.15.2011 , 01:03 PM | #19
Without going over the extensively written posts here, there's no point in a dual spec. You can't change your AC, so that's out, and you can respec at cost. You want to PVP? Build for it. You want to tank? Build for that instead. You want to do both? You build a tank and use your tank spec in PVP to guard another player. The system works fine without dual specs.

Spydax's Avatar


Spydax
12.15.2011 , 02:15 PM | #20
I approve of this thread.

Please bring us Dual Spec, but don't rush it. At this point there are barely anyone at level 50

Rather have you fix the self-targeting healing modifier first!
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