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Crit versus mastery augments and power crystals

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Crit versus mastery augments and power crystals

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
07.16.2019 , 08:53 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
The softcap for Mastery is 7800 and at that point Power is better because the "crit" part of Mastery has diminished returns.
Where are you getting that number? I've never seen it anywhere. Just because the crit from mastery has diminishing returns doesn't necessarily mean power is better. Maybe power is better at a certain point, but I've never seen someone actually calculate where the point of diminishing returns is that would justify using power over mastery.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
07.16.2019 , 09:17 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Where are you getting that number? I've never seen it anywhere. Just because the crit from mastery has diminishing returns doesn't necessarily mean power is better. Maybe power is better at a certain point, but I've never seen someone actually calculate where the point of diminishing returns is that would justify using power over mastery.
https://www.rambol.net/home/2018/3/1...shing_returns=
^Mastery section. So I'm basing this on Rambol & Hottie's graphs, which also seems to be used in Smarty's spreadsheet.

But the number might be closer to 8000+. It's hard to tell when it graph is every 500 points. From 9000 to 10000, it really starts to flatline.

For some reason everyone started thinking Mastery was better than Power in 4.0 -- and maybe it was for the 4.0 stat distrubution. Mastery is better for parsing dummies because of the crit rating, and obv, you only upload your spikier best parses. I wish there were some sort of 240 Power augs we could test with.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Nobody really discusses these things (with me), so take it with a grain of salt. I love this sort of water cooler discussion.

Quote:
Every point in Power adds 0.23 Bonus Damage and 0.17 Bonus Healing.
Quote:
the coefficient of Bonus Damage from Mastery is 0.2 and the coefficient of Bonus Healing from Mastery is 0.14.
EDIT: interesting note is that Rambol and Hottie use dipstik's formulas in their acknowledgments section at the bottom.
-Beruhl, NiM Space Barbie (ง︡'-'︠)ง
(\/)(,,,,)(\/) ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦
i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
07.16.2019 , 09:52 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
https://www.rambol.net/home/2018/3/1...shing_returns=
^Mastery section. So I'm basing this on Rambol & Hottie's blog graphs, which is also seems to be used in Smarty's spreadsheet.

It might be closer to 8000. From 9000 to 10000, it really starts to flatline.

For some reason everyone started thinking Mastery was better than Power in 4.0 -- and maybe it was for the 4.0 stat distrubution. Mastery is better for parsing dummies because of the crit rating, and obv, you only upload your spikier best parses. I wish there were some sort of 240 Power augs we could test with.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Nobody really discusses these things (with me), so take it with a grain of salt.
My understanding has been that mastery is superior to power because of the added crit from it. Theoretically, it makes sense that at some point the diminishing returns from that crit will be so great that taking power would be better, but as far as I'm aware no one knows what that point is. So if you see that between 8000-10000, diminishing returns seem to be really increasing, that still doesn't answer at what point it's worth taking power over mastery unless someone actually does the math.

Probably the reason no one has figured it out yet is that the only consequence of that knowledge would be whether you use mastery or power crystals, assuming you're not using crit crystals, which would only make a tiny difference overall. And it's also a moot point for raiders, because they're using high alacrity and 110% accuracy, so their mastery isn't getting that high.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
07.16.2019 , 10:03 AM | #14
I heavily edited my post.

Yeah, it's just speculation without someone to do the numbers. But the crit chance from Mastery is definitely a curve, and not a straight line, so it is subject to diminishing returns. So i'm guessing ~8000...... without giving myself a headache trying to calculate.

I also think that it wasn't easy to go over 8000 Mastery until 258 gear coupled with 240 augs.
-Beruhl, NiM Space Barbie (ง︡'-'︠)ง
(\/)(,,,,)(\/) ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱ ̵̱(̢ ̡͇̅└͇̅┘͇̅ (▤8כ−◦
i do what i want major league memes can i borrow a stim?

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
07.16.2019 , 10:18 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
So i'm guessing ~8000...... without giving myself a headache trying to calculate.
Well I have 8952 mastery on my main at the moment, so if anyone knows for sure or wants to figure it out, let us know lol.

I also still don't know the exact crit amount I should be using either. I'm using 2254 right now. Also 704 alacrity and 0 accuracy (madness sorc).

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
07.16.2019 , 02:00 PM | #16
there is still no good definition of soft cap... as long as the stat gives more dps than another stat, you want it... you could calculate when the slope of the curve is halved from the initial slope, but that still doesn't mean much to how you gear.

and looking into mastery/power trade would be meaningful if there was a power augment... it is impossible for power to be more than 15% better than mastery ((.23-.2)/.2) so trading 99 mastery and 39 power for 80 power is a loss of 23% (point for point, not in bonus damage), which is greater than 15%, so not viable. also, 138>80 and more numbers is pretty much always better than optimized numbers (except when alacrity in concerned)

in reagards in when to trade crit for mastery, look at the OP. if you have high base hit and surge, you want more crit (likely as much as you have now with no mastery augments). If you have low surge and low base hit, you want to trade for mastery around 2200 crit... but that assumes all the stuff stated in OP.