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DarthRaistlin

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PvE relics are BiS for PvE, thanks for showing how little PvE experience you have. :rolleyes:

 

Obviously I do not raid, but having T2 PvP relics be perceived as more desirable than the PvE versions to the extent that players will queue ranked matches only because they are attempting to get the PvP relics is silly. PvE relics either need to be easier to get relatively, or PvP relics should not work outside of warzones/open world PvP. Having PvE players tell me that they are "forced" to PvP so they can get the relics is bad.

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The competitive population is small, so lets just make everything super-casual? Brilliant logic.

 

Show me on the doll where the bad casual touched you.

 

The competitive population is small and it needs to grow. Saying we need to make things as competitive as possible right now is ignoring the elephant in the room.

 

On my server people are begging and I do mean BEGGING for people to queue for ranked games. The queue pops are simply not there regardless of whether your own personal policy reflects "super-casual" or "highly competitive". Neither type of player is playing any ranked games at all and that is a problem for competition, wouldn't you agree?

 

It's a fact in any MMO players will gravitate to the content that yields the highest/best rewards. For example, just recently the surge of queue pops was instantaneous after the announcement of the season 1 rewards because everyone wanted that rancor mount. If you dangle the reward carrot for ranked games the population will grow and through that you find a naturally occurring high level of competition.

 

In regards to the condition for completing the ranked quests, I believe participation will yield better results for population growth.

Edited by Fellow-Canadian
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The upcoming (in 2.7.1) Ranked Missions only progress from wins. They are completed with 3 wins for the daily and 9 for the weekly. We will see how those amounts work in the wild and adjust accordingly.

 

Cheers! :tran_grin:

 

You still dont learn how design MMO balance since failed Ilum. You dont listen players opinions.

 

Your major game design paradigm "Rich must became richer, poor must became poorer" will fail once again, cuz quantity of rich *so-called elite hardcore* ones much less than quantity of *casual* poors, and poors will abandon playing game with such approach. No one will playing game where they losing all time (and pay money for it). No fun. Especially without any kind working elo matchmaking and cross-server players pool. So rich ones finally get zero game cuz infinite queue time. Hello to step on the rake again.

Edited by TonyDragonflame
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You still dont learn how design MMO balance since failed Ilum. You dont listen players opinions.

 

Your major game design paradigm "Rich must became richer, poor must became poorer" will fail once again, cuz quantity of rich *so-called elite hardcore* ones much less than quantity of *casual* poors, and poors will abandon playing game with such approach. No one will playing game where they losing all time (and pay money for it). No fun. So rich ones finally get zero game cuz infinite queue time. Hello to step on the rake again.

 

Not every portion of the game has to be directed at EVERYONE. I agree that PvP should be for everyone, but that doesn't mean you can't target ranked PvP at the more hardcore PvP player base. Just like Operations are for everyone, but NiM Operations are targeted at the more hardcore PvE player base.

 

Ranked warzones aren't for the "poor" casuals to gain something. If you're losing all the time, improve or play the casual game type. You are making the decision to play a game mode that is meant to reflect how skilled players are and calling to make it more accessible to less skilled players. It goes against the very fundamental of having a rank in the first place.

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Good that you quoted those guys. If these guys complain why there are no people in ranked, we can point out this thread.

 

There already were very few people in Ranked, before there was a daily quest. Many folks in this thread are acting as if those people already doing Ranked will stop doing Ranked b/c of it. Unlikely.

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Not every portion of the game has to be directed at EVERYONE. I agree that PvP should be for everyone, but that doesn't mean you can't target ranked PvP at the more hardcore PvP player base. Just like Operations are for everyone, but NiM Operations are targeted at the more hardcore PvE player base.

 

Ranked warzones aren't for the "poor" casuals to gain something. If you're losing all the time, improve or play the casual game type. You are making the decision to play a game mode that is meant to reflect how skilled players are and calling to make it more accessible to less skilled players. It goes against the very fundamental of having a rank in the first place.

 

Then why are you guys complaining that ranked does not fire? I have never seen Nim guilds complaining that they can not find people to run with. PVP in this game does not have a big population of high skilled players. When will you guys understand that?

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Que times in ranked suffered because of barriers to entry in the previous system. Now there are virtually "no barriers" and Que times are bad. So what is the problem?

 

Ranked has ALWAYS lacked competitiveness.

 

Think about that for a moment. There has never been anything, anything in ranked "worth" fighting for except for ONE damn mount. But guess what? You had to "win" in order to get it..

 

While this new design is in place, where there are zero restrictions for queing ranked, you can't reward mere participation IF you want any credibility in the world of "competitiveness". If you want ranked to grow, maybe this reward, adding 8v8 back, and adding some forced PvP progression(aka no trolling in unranked) with a few Que restrictions is a way better route to fix the problem. There is no point in having a ranked Que if you reward participation..

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Not every portion of the game has to be directed at EVERYONE. I agree that PvP should be for everyone, but that doesn't mean you can't target ranked PvP at the more hardcore PvP player base. Just like Operations are for everyone, but NiM Operations are targeted at the more hardcore PvE player base.

 

Ranked warzones aren't for the "poor" casuals to gain something. If you're losing all the time, improve or play the casual game type. You are making the decision to play a game mode that is meant to reflect how skilled players are and calling to make it more accessible to less skilled players. It goes against the very fundamental of having a rank in the first place.

 

If ranked WZs are not for the poor, casuals or W.E you want to call them, what is the process to prevent them from queing in solo ranked?

 

On every fundamental level solo ranked is not competitive. Solo rank is 100% RNG based and winning is a function of which team has less clueless. You can't have a reward system based on winning when RNG is the biggest factor in determining the winner. That's why weekly for normal WZ have changes from wins to # of games; to increase participation. We do not have the population for a healthy ranked environment on any server, and all this does is favor super skilled teams in group ranked, who will win most games regardless. Lesser skilled teams in group ranked will not win most games, and solo ranked winning is not correlated with skill.

 

It does not work.

 

Implement cross server ques and I will 100% support dailies and weeklies based on winning.

Edited by Ottoattack
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You still dont learn how design MMO balance since failed Ilum. You dont listen players opinions.

 

Your major game design paradigm "Rich must became richer, poor must became poorer" will fail once again, cuz quantity of rich *so-called elite hardcore* ones much less than quantity of *casual* poors, and poors will abandon playing game with such approach. No one will playing game where they losing all time (and pay money for it). No fun. Especially without any kind working elo matchmaking and cross-server players pool. So rich ones finally get zero game cuz infinite queue time. Hello to step on the rake again.

 

Tony I really don't think this makes much of a difference to the top end PvPers. The best on my server are already full brutalizer and will be min maxed in a matter of a week or two. The quests will not make them any richer really (except by allowing them to gear out an alt or two with legacy gear). And I really believe making them count for participation would be very bad for the quality of the experience of most players, particularly on the less powerful faction. Making the quest count for losses could be considered in the group queue though. That would make sense.

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Not every portion of the game has to be directed at EVERYONE. I agree that PvP should be for everyone, but that doesn't mean you can't target ranked PvP at the more hardcore PvP player base. Just like Operations are for everyone, but NiM Operations are targeted at the more hardcore PvE player base.

 

Ranked warzones aren't for the "poor" casuals to gain something. If you're losing all the time, improve or play the casual game type. You are making the decision to play a game mode that is meant to reflect how skilled players are and calling to make it more accessible to less skilled players. It goes against the very fundamental of having a rank in the first place.

 

Main problem is huge cross-faction imbalance on most servers whats ruined solo ranked. This still dont fixed and makes problem "poor became more poorer" much worse. Only cross-faction solo ranked can solve this problem, but BW dont care about it.

 

So this decision leads just to one-sided one-faction servers, where players other faction will reroll or quit game (hello wildstar and teso).

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Then why are you guys complaining that ranked does not fire? I have never seen Nim guilds complaining that they can not find people to run with. PVP in this game does not have a big population of high skilled players. When will you guys understand that?

 

Because we were promised Cross Server Queues along with Season 1. We have every right to complain about lack of pops and matchmaking.

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Having PvE players tell me that they are "forced" to PvP so they can get the relics is bad.

Yes, it is. They are not 'forced', they simply don't have the skill set to earn the PvE relics and they think those relics will make them good. They are wrong.

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Que times in ranked suffered because of barriers to entry in the previous system. Now there are virtually "no barriers" and Que times are bad. So what is the problem?

 

Ranked has ALWAYS lacked competitiveness.

 

Think about that for a moment. There has never been anything, anything in ranked "worth" fighting for except for ONE damn mount. But guess what? You had to "win" in order to get it..

 

While this new design is in place, where there are zero restrictions for queing ranked, you can't reward mere participation IF you want any credibility in the world of "competitiveness". If you want ranked to grow, maybe this reward, adding 8v8 back, and adding some forced PvP progression(aka no trolling in unranked) with a few Que restrictions is a way better route to fix the problem. There is no point in having a ranked Que if you reward participation..

 

Well stated, i couldn't agree more.

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Then why are you guys complaining that ranked does not fire? I have never seen Nim guilds complaining that they can not find people to run with. PVP in this game does not have a big population of high skilled players. When will you guys understand that?

 

I'd like the game to be developed in such a way that it encourages competitive players to play. There is plenty in this game that attracts the casual player, we need some features to attract the competitive players as well. A ranked scene that rewards skilled player highly, having good class balance, making strategy important, and allowing open competition (aka cross-server) would be steps to make this happen. While we are waiting on some of those to be possible, it is important to keep the other factors in place.

 

BW has made great strides in balancing classes, even if they have a ways to go. I think the rewards for the top 3 players of a spec are a step in the right direction for properly rewarding skill, although the top 2 on each server would probably be a better option with no cross server. There are a number of different playable comps at the moment, but strategy still doesn't play a huge part in the game as one comp always seems to be better than any other. Cross server we are all aware isn't coming any time soon.

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Because we were promised Cross Server Queues along with Season 1. We have every right to complain about lack of pops and matchmaking.

 

That was not the only issue. They lost a TON of players by removing 8v8 ranked, not offering any compensation for players that transferred, and going from some pretty substantial barriers, to no barriers at all.

 

Here us something I wish Alex would try. Call it a test run. Announce you are putting 8v8 ranked as team and solo, and put some of those suggested mounts in the sticky thread as reward for meeting certain benchmarks in wins/damage/pro/heal, as a reward while we are waiting for S2 to commence. The only stipulation is needing to have 1900EXP and fully augmented. I can all but gurantee the Que pops will cut in half.

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Wait, what? Good luck faking, er, I mean finding that quote.

 

Feel free to find the video of the guild summit on Youtube, or it has been posted in multiple threads. It also sat in the warzone queue screen for all of pre-season1, so about a year and a half. :rak_03:

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Must say I'm a bit baffled by the logics being applied to this new weekly/daily for ranked. I thought, obvious wrongly apperently, that the idea was to bring more people into playing pvp ranked, rather than simply giving more ranked coms to those playing already? Wasn't the unranked daily weekly charged for that exact same purpose, that it was driving people away from pvp that you had to win (even on the servers with massive pvp-inbalance)? While I do agree that pvp'ers(or rather people who enjoy competing at the highest tier of content in pvp aswell) should be able to have a "dedicated" gaming system, such as the nightmare modes is for raiders, I don't really see how putting in an unachievable daily/weekly would encourage more people to join in trying to get better at this content? Putting in a requirement for starting on nightmare mode DF, that you must first suffer through endless wipes of Brontes on nightmare mode and must conquerer her, before you can start on nightmare mode DF at all, doesn't make sense in my head either.

 

While ranked (ideally) should be the "stage" for the most dedicated and skilled players to play against eachother, the fact remains that other than at primetime in weekends, there's hardly a single "pop" of the ranked ques on the server where I play, which I imagine is not an isolated issue for my server. Chosing between not playing most of the time in a system designed (exclusively) for the elite, or playing (fairly) regulary and "suffering" the occasional bad player, isn't really a choice is it? What's the point of being awesome at something you don't get to do? (Not that I claim to be that, in any way) So while it would be awesome to have a dedicated system for those passionate about the pvp experience (aswell), the fact remains that there isn't enough people playing it to make it a stable (self-sufficient) enviroment in this game as is. To get more people playing it, requires them to be motivated to do so, and people don't generate stable enduring motivation by punishment or the lure of an unachievable reward, but by concrete (incremental ideally) rewards. And yes, this will properly mean that we'll suffer through loads of clueless people queing up to get easy coms, but some of those might actually get interesting to doing more pvp and learning how to be better at it, meaning that the long term benefits might be that we get more (good) people playing pvp, providing more (regular) competition for the community as a whole.

 

I might be the "odd one out" on these forums in this regard, but I fully acknowledge that I wasn't "born into" superior pvp-skills, but actually had to (and still have to) learn how to get better, and yes, I didn't do that just for the sake of being good at pvp (done it even for such silly things, as liking the "War Hero" title and gear on my old guardian). But I've come to actually like pvp'ing like I enjoy raiding aswell and I'd do like more people joining into doing it, so they can share all the fun experiences that "lay within" this game-mode. But I guess I just have to hope that the dear Bioware will skip their reading of motivational theory about half a century further ahead and realise that (enduring) motivation is created by actual rewards for doing, rather than the lure of unrealistic achievements, so we can get a actually stable pvp enviroment on the non-pvp servers aswell, while we wait for "cross-server queing"

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That was not the only issue. They lost a TON of players by removing 8v8 ranked, not offering any compensation for players that transferred, and going from some pretty substantial barriers, to no barriers at all.

 

Here us something I wish Alex would try. Call it a test run. Announce you are putting 8v8 ranked as team and solo, and put some of those suggested mounts in the sticky thread as reward for meeting certain benchmarks in wins/damage/pro/heal, as a reward while we are waiting for S2 to commence. The only stipulation is needing to have 1900EXP and fully augmented. I can all but gurantee the Que pops will cut in half.

 

Aye, i completly agree. I was only replying to the question 'Why are we complaining when ranked isn't firing' - to which i think every PvPer in this game is entitled to complain about for any reason, at any time =P

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Do you honestly think they didn't promise that? Not only did they say it at the guild summit, but it was literally in the PvP window when 8v8 ranked first came out.

 

It was also on this very site when you read about the coming "Ranked Warzones"....might even be there still, not sure =)

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