Since when are Snipers OP?

Ever since they killed a marauder before he could get to them and lolsmash

What needs to happen for me to be happy with class balance:

- First off get someone new in charge of the combat team

- Hire a dedicated player of each advanced class to have a weekly roundtable discusion about class balance and where they feel they are at, this person would not be voted in and would stay out of the community spotlight however could be voted out if community felt their concerns were not being addressed.

- Class balance would happen on a biweekly basis (every two weeks)

- All none pure dps classes would be 5% below pure dps classes on parsing dummy

- All melee classes would be given proper gap closer that does not cost energy

- All CC effects would be GREATLY reduced and roots will obey resolve but not fill it

- All Aoe centric builds would be redesigned

- All Classes would be given fair AOE (Sins I'm looking at you)

- Sorc Bubble now applies on self off global cooldown and gives user 20% damage reduction for 6 secs after bubble pop or wears off

- Sorc insta heal now works off the global cooldown (as every other cooldown in the game does )

- Work towards a system that allows some abilities to have different affects in pvp then pve.

Ever since they killed a marauder before he could get to them and lolsmash

This. Snipers are basically ranged marauders, minus the auto-crit AOE every 20 seconds.

This. Snipers are basically ranged marauders, minus the auto-crit AOE every 20 seconds.

Snipers are strong but they aren't OP. A Sniper has to pick his spec wisely for group PvP. Does he want to be Single Target burst but be highly mitigated by defensive cooldowns and very vulnerable to LOS, or does he want to be AOE DoT damage which puts on a lot of AoE pressure but their burst will be highly mitigated by Cleanse and their team will never be able to use long duration soft CC's like Awe.

Smash is a problem because it's good in every group PvP situation. It's AOE, it's burst, it's instant, and there are no drawbacks to smash like having to DoT up multiple targets making them immune to soft CC.

Snipers are strong but they aren't OP. A Sniper has to pick his spec wisely for group PvP. Does he want to be Single Target burst but be highly mitigated by defensive cooldowns and very vulnerable to LOS, or does he want to be AOE DoT damage which puts on a lot of AoE pressure but their burst will be highly mitigated by Cleanse and their team will never be able to use long duration soft CC's like Awe.

 

Smash is a problem because it's good in every group PvP situation. It's AOE, it's burst, it's instant, and there are no drawbacks to smash like having to DoT up multiple targets making them immune to soft CC.

it was fine like that, but they made it easier and added more CC imunity in entrench resets and rolls for mobility making one of the negatives of entrench, not as negative. Then they gave stealth detection which aids a lot in not having as hard of a counter. And LOLWallbanging. They essentially had done the same to smash when they made it easier to play. It's not so much easy group killing but the lack of downsides has gotten out of control.

I remember having to work a lot harder at being as bad as I am at my Sniper and Gunslinger.

Snipers are strong but they aren't OP. A Sniper has to pick his spec wisely for group PvP. Does he want to be Single Target burst but be highly mitigated by defensive cooldowns and very vulnerable to LOS, or does he want to be AOE DoT damage which puts on a lot of AoE pressure but their burst will be highly mitigated by Cleanse and their team will never be able to use long duration soft CC's like Awe.

 

Smash is a problem because it's good in every group PvP situation. It's AOE, it's burst, it's instant, and there are no drawbacks to smash like having to DoT up multiple targets making them immune to soft CC.

to me as a long time sniper and before that, sorc... sniper's biggest problem is that nothing of their really sucks. All three specs are useful. Even marauders/sents don't have that (lol anni). It's hard to balance everything to sniper however, as it's a single role advanced class. Although in a perfect world, most every advanced class would feel useful in at least two of their three specs, if not all three.

Sniper's curse is that it's not bad in any way, whereas there is bad in most other adv types and the latter needs to change. Only thing that's OP offhand with snipers is wallbanging...and the fact devs support it is probably more because they are too unskilled to actually 'fix' it. So as usual, they break out the L2P line.

to me as a long time sniper and before that, sorc... sniper's biggest problem is that nothing of their really sucks. All three specs are useful. Even marauders/sents don't have that (lol anni). It's hard to balance everything to sniper however, as it's a single role advanced class. Although in a perfect world, most every advanced class would feel useful in at least two of their three specs, if not all three.

 

Sniper's curse is that it's not bad in any way, whereas there is bad in most other adv types and the latter needs to change. Only thing that's OP offhand with snipers is wallbanging...and the fact devs support it is probably more because they are too unskilled to actually 'fix' it. So as usual, they break out the L2P line.

I took a 63 geared sniper into pvp once and wallbanged someone and it was the funniest thing I've ever seen in pvp. Two rolls does the trick on almost anyone.

I took a 63 geared sniper into pvp once and wallbanged someone and it was the funniest thing I've ever seen in pvp. Two rolls does the trick on almost anyone.

Since I'm bored; maybe it's time I start doing this. Melee runs up, puts back to wall to prevent punt, *double Wallbang*

They've collected lots of data in normal and ranked warzones so far, it hasn't helped them create balance whatsoever.

They said they did not support RWZs, thus obviously they have no clue whats going on in terms of class balance PvP wise. Plus, why the rush? You mean the 8 month span between 2.0 and 2.5 is too long? And yes I am being sarcastic. Ohh I forgot, pyro tech was further nerfed in 2.4, because they were soooo OP that people stopped playing them anymore, so BW nerfed them (at least AP got a buff).

Only thing that's OP offhand with snipers is wallbanging.

Luckily it's in a spec that most people surprisingly don't know how to play + You need a wall.

(Lol @ Hot Shot)

to me as a long time sniper and before that, sorc... sniper's biggest problem is that nothing of their really sucks. All three specs are useful. Even marauders/sents don't have that (lol anni). It's hard to balance everything to sniper however, as it's a single role advanced class. Although in a perfect world, most every advanced class would feel useful in at least two of their three specs, if not all three.

 

Sniper's curse is that it's not bad in any way, whereas there is bad in most other adv types and the latter needs to change. Only thing that's OP offhand with snipers is wallbanging...and the fact devs support it is probably more because they are too unskilled to actually 'fix' it. So as usual, they break out the L2P line.

Full Sab sucks. Even the Devs said so themselves. Wall bang is extremely easy to avoid. They literally have to be right on top of you and then pin you against the wall to use it. It's so easy to see it coming and so easy to counter I don't see how anyone other than noobs have a problem with it. None of my toons have ever been wallbanged... ever. And when I play full Sab on my Slinger I have to litterally be trying to do it the entire match and I might get one off that actually kills someone. Its not even worth it.

The Stealth detect feature they added to cover only helps against careless Stealthers. If they pop their Blackout/Sneak then it only works in a frontal Cone so you can sneak behind the Sniper and he'll still never see you coming. Also, most Stealthers just pop Blackout/Sneak and then Roll/Force Speed in and open up on you like normal. By the time you see them they are already on you.

Luckily it's in a spec that most people surprisingly don't know how to play + You need a wall.

(Lol @ Hot Shot)

Except that you don't, you can roll in place by jumping immediately after hitting roll. If you do it by hand its only like a 50% chance of working, but apparently if you have a programmable mouse or keyboard you can macro it so it works the majority of the time.

@Sibek just ask TheJanitor, He was doing it to me on his sniper the other day, I couldn't figure out how he was bursting my tank down so hard, until the last 30 seconds of the match when I turned sound on and heard that pop pop pop noise of the bombs.

But yes I will give you that the rest of that spec is really hard, but as long as you get the roll down it really makes up for any lack on the rest of the rotation.

Except that you don't, you can roll in place by jumping immediately after hitting roll. If you do it by hand its only like a 50% chance of working, but apparently if you have a programmable mouse or keyboard you can macro it so it works the majority of the time.

 

@Sibek just ask TheJanitor, He was doing it to me on his sniper the other day, I couldn't figure out how he was bursting my tank down so hard, until the last 30 seconds of the match when I turned sound on and heard that pop pop pop noise of the bombs.

 

But yes I will give you that the rest of that spec is really hard, but as long as you get the roll down it really makes up for any lack on the rest of the rotation.

The non-wall wallbang is supposed to be looked at and fixed. I imagine it is not high priority.

Snipers are strong but they aren't OP. A Sniper has to pick his spec wisely for group PvP. Does he want to be Single Target burst but be highly mitigated by defensive cooldowns and very vulnerable to LOS, or does he want to be AOE DoT damage which puts on a lot of AoE pressure but their burst will be highly mitigated by Cleanse and their team will never be able to use long duration soft CC's like Awe.

 

Smash is a problem because it's good in every group PvP situation. It's AOE, it's burst, it's instant, and there are no drawbacks to smash like having to DoT up multiple targets making them immune to soft CC.

I smell a sniper/gunslinger trying to defend his class from a nerf!

No worries bro your class will never get nerfed in anyway what so ever. Uncle Austin's got your back!

I smell a sniper/gunslinger trying to defend his class from a nerf!

 

No worries bro your class will never get nerfed in anyway what so ever. Uncle Austin's got your back!

As you can see I play several classes. I'm just stating the facts brah.

Except that you don't, you can roll in place by jumping immediately after hitting roll. If you do it by hand its only like a 50% chance of working, but apparently if you have a programmable mouse or keyboard you can macro it so it works the majority of the time.

 

@Sibek just ask TheJanitor, He was doing it to me on his sniper the other day, I couldn't figure out how he was bursting my tank down so hard, until the last 30 seconds of the match when I turned sound on and heard that pop pop pop noise of the bombs.

 

But yes I will give you that the rest of that spec is really hard, but as long as you get the roll down it really makes up for any lack on the rest of the rotation.

The Janitor killed you? Tsk.

I thought the rolling in air bug was fixed =/

As you can see I play several classes, I'm just stating the facts brah.

And you've made some good points. i just feel that we could do without wallbanging, frequent or not, and personally could do without the extra things in general that came with the roll, (extra entrench, bomblets and fire) and stealth detection. Was unnecessary buffs. I'm also not a fan of the constant free follow throughs in the MM tree.

I don't know. I mained a sniper until 2.0 and a gunslinger after and I have found I have lost the love for it. It used to be a thinking mans class, but now it just seems to require a lot less thought and more just dumping the damage. Not that I know the alternative as this game has become pure DPS vs HPS racing.

And you've made some good points. i just feel that we could do without wallbanging, frequent or not, and personally could do without the extra things in general that came with the roll, (extra entrench, bomblets and fire) and stealth detection. Was unnecessary buffs. I'm also not a fan of the constant free follow throughs in the MM tree.

 

I don't know. I mained a sniper until 2.0 and a gunslinger after and I have found I have lost the love for it. It used to be a thinking mans class, but now it just seems to require a lot less thought and more just dumping the damage. Not that I know the alternative as this game has become pure DPS vs HPS racing.

Meh...

I've been playing Slinger for quite some time, don't think i'll ever lose my love for it, or the Sab Spec.

Meh...

You get entrench with MM/SS, scatter bombs in the same spot for Eng/Sab, and then by fire, I am referring to the animation of the mines in Leth/DF. None are amazing outside of wallbanging the bombs, but they were unneeded. It's just little things that add up when the class was already in a good spot.

As you can see I play several classes. I'm just stating the facts brah.

Uncle Austin's got your back!

You get entrench with MM/SS, scatter bombs in the same spot for Eng/Sab, and then by fire, I am referring to the animation of the mines in Leth/DF. None are amazing outside of wallbanging the bombs, but they were unneeded. It's just little things that add up when the class was already in a good spot.

Ah alright, I just read what you said wrong.

I smell a sniper/gunslinger trying to defend his class from a nerf!

 

No worries bro your class will never get nerfed in anyway what so ever. Uncle Austin's got your back!

A few tweaks here and there could be done probably but nothing major really. I will not agree with radical proposals such as allowing leaps to snipers in cover and other wishfull thinking from melee players.

I smell a sniper/gunslinger trying to defend his class from a nerf!

 

No worries bro your class will never get nerfed in anyway what so ever. Uncle Austin's got your back!

Snipers requirement to remain stationary is, for good players, all the nerf they need for the most part.

Snipers are in a good place, but hardly OP. Anyone can get to us within a standard warzone most of the time (and all of the time, if they are stealth), cover pulse is a 60 sec CD. If you are a stealther and you get caught by my stealth detection, you are bad at stealth. period.

If you want to talk about single duels with all CD's available, well then sure, perhaps different story...but as far as actual group combat goes...sniper's strong for sure, and unfortunately not every AC is similarly well balanced.

Lack of actual in combat mobility is quite the nerf, unless your leth/dirty fighting...and if this is you, your value in arenas is likely going to force you to change to MM or Sab/engineer.

Engineer isn't terrible though. BW said it was 'clunky' and it is. Engineer serves a purpose - defensive and AOE pressure. It does fine.

This wouldn't be an issue if the devs would be a little more liberal with their nerf hammer. A small fraction of the community cries? Destroy the class's way of life. A large portion of the community complains? Ignore them.

Some of the best suggestions I have seen about classes have come from people who actually play the class. Vanguards: I suggested multiple times that the range on assault plastique and Incendiary round be nerfed. Then the class would be more balanced. The nerf worked quite well because vanguards could not burst a target to death from 30 meters away. Then comes along a nerf bioware thinks of: Trash Assault plastique. No longer viable in PVP.

Bioware needs to rely on experience and metrics (not just what a bunch of numbers say). Human beings are unpredictable and can determine if a class is OP or not OP simply by the way they play it, not what a computer says a class could potentially do.

Yeah its sad :-/ SWG (on a skeleton dev crew) put together a much better Warzone/Battleground AND open world PVP system than SWTOR currently has, or hopes to have with its current direction.

Not to mention the atmospheric flight and pvp that one dev, Hjal, was able to add by himself on his own time.