When the competetive elements of this game wants gear progression and character advancement it's because "we want to be carried by gear".

Whereas causals feel they should have a clear progression path all the way up to the best gear for little to no effort.

Why can't us hardcore players have something to work for that actually takes effort and teamplay to get? I want to feel i earned the gear, not getting it handed to me by merely participating in PvP.

Sure competition is it's own reward, which btw is why i'm still racking up lots of games daily even though there is no tangible reward in it for me except more titles. But just as the causals want gear progressions, so do we. Even if the gap is a small one like champ to bm gear, it's still nice to have stuff to look forward too.

Ranked players will spend most of their time in ranked warzones so it's not like we will spend all out time ganking you in non ranked.

When the competetive elements of this game wants gear progression and character advancement it's because "we want to be carried by gear".

Whereas causals feel they should have a clear progression path all the way up to the best gear for little to no effort.

 

 

Why can't us hardcore players have something to work for that actually takes effort and teamplay to get? I want to feel i earned the gear, not getting it handed to me by merely participating in PvP.

 

Sure competition is it's own reward, which btw is why i'm still racking up lots of games daily even though there is no tangible reward in it for me except more titles. But just as the causals want gear progressions, so do we. Even if the gap is a small one like champ to bm gear, it's still nice to have stuff to look forward too.

 

Ranked players will spend most of their time in ranked warzones so it's not like we will spend all out time ganking you in non ranked.

Root of your problem - You're speaking as if gear is the point of the game.

In fact, it's mostly what's wrong with these games.

Fun with your friends, or fun on your own (a new concept to the genre, but now valid) is the point of these games.

Not having fun - don't play. Want to be measured? Use the ranking system to feel that boost of e-peeny goodness. That's your achievement. I'm not one of those "the gear gap was impossible" people, but it's not like you need a greater advantage for already being better? That's the "elitist" community in these games coming out in the design, and I, for one, am glad it's dying.

If some FPS kid wants to come in and beat me, let him. I'll either school him in a whole new type of game, or bow to him respectfully when he wins. I don't need an advantage for having more playtime. Your brain is your advantage.

Why can't us hardcore players have something to work for that actually takes effort and teamplay to get?

You do: titles, pride, recognition.

But just as the causals want gear progressions, so do we.

Too bad, find something else.

On the other hand, cosmetic armor sets (orange, empty mods) is a good idea.

Seemed obvious based on the modding system in general. I suppose they'll get to it in time.

OP which would you rather have:

1) A PvP match that is determined solely by the skill of the players

2) A PvP match that is determined solely by the gear of the players

3) A PvP match that is determined in part by the gear and in part by the skill of the players

A lot of people want a skill only match up: who is better at this game, you or I? To take care of the need to feel you are accomplishing something (which is what getting gear effectively does) many games implement stat tracking and character ranking for multiplayer. This gives you an avenue to progress your character without influencing the straight skill match up of the players. If you have an issue with progression via stat tracking and player ranking, could you please elaborate on that?

There are like 3 threads crying about this already.

Gear crutches in PvP are stupid, everyone should be relatively equal.

Catering to a small elitist (ELITIST NOT ELITE) group of people with massive amounts of time on their hands, who want to stomp so called 'casuals' with no skill required (because for some reason putting so much time should entitle them to) will NOT make a sustainable MMO. The people that play casually, i.e. have a life outside of MMOs, are what make up the subscriptions and keep the game profitable. Making 'hardcore' players gods of pvp will just drive everyone else away.

By "progression" you really mean "I want to be more powerful and win easily" right?

You're hardcore. You already are more skilled than the casuals. You'll beat them with equal gear. Unless you're afraid that perhaps you won't?

except they already said they were adding progression gear to pvp...its just not going to have more stats.

its the best of both worlds. nubs can still get gear and can't complain about gear difference and pros can have shiny colors and titles that no one else has for epeen.

If you want to chase gear pve, if you want to fight others pvp.

Is that the word of GOD now or something seeing as you people keep saing it like the gospel.

Hell even COD and BF have gear progression.

When the competetive elements of this game wants gear progression and character advancement it's because "we want to be carried by gear".

If you want gear progression, you're not competitive.

Why can't us hardcore players have something to work for that actually takes effort and teamplay to get?

Right now the best ways to get your full set of gear are botting, afking and medal farming while ignoring the test of the team. Needless to say, botters, afkers and medal farmers love the system that gives botters, afkers and medal farmers an advantage.

Root of your problem - You're speaking as if gear is the point of the game.

 

In fact, it's mostly what's wrong with these games.

 

Fun with your friends, or fun on your own (a new concept to the genre, but now valid) is the point of these games.

 

Not having fun - don't play. Want to be measured? Use the ranking system to feel that boost of e-peeny goodness. That's your achievement. I'm not one of those "the gear gap was impossible" people, but it's not like you need a greater advantage for already being better? That's the "elitist" community in these games coming out in the design, and I, for one, am glad it's dying.

 

If some FPS kid wants to come in and beat me, let him. I'll either school him in a whole new type of game, or bow to him respectfully when he wins. I don't need an advantage for having more playtime. Your brain is your advantage.

And here we have a great post representing a large part of the community that doesn't speak up so often... +1

By "progression" you really mean "I want to be more powerful and win easily" right?

 

You're hardcore. You already are more skilled than the casuals. You'll beat them with equal gear. Unless you're afraid that perhaps you won't?

The other teams in the ranked ladder will have the same gear. New gear is ONE fun aspect of mmorpgs. New items, trinkets, mods, finding the best combination, min maxing, tweaking. Its the meta game.

 

Hell even COD and BF have gear progression.

I recon BF has alot more gear progression than this game

And here we have a great post representing a large part of the community that doesn't speak up so often... +1

Thank you...I know it's sad...most of my guildies avoid the forums like the plague except for the "cooperative" parts of it. For some reason I still feel the need to hang around and try to defend sanity and reason at times. I appreciate the nod, it's easy to forget when you read these boards that everyone isn't an elitist nutjob that complains constantly, hates this game, and yet continues to play it.

The other teams in the ranked ladder will have the same gear. New gear is ONE fun aspect of mmorpgs. New items, trinkets, mods, finding the best combination, min maxing, tweaking. Its the meta game.

And that's not what you're asking for. You're asking for "I want a new armor that is flat out more powerful than what I had, and more powerful than than the armor that my opponents have."

That's what you mean by progression. Not taking the available gear and mixing it up to produce a new combination. Don't even try to deny it.

When the competetive elements of this game wants gear progression and character advancement it's because "we want to be carried by gear".

Whereas causals feel they should have a clear progression path all the way up to the best gear for little to no effort.

That is both untrue and insulting. I'm a very casual player.

I don't CARE about gear. I don't PVP. You may play however you like.

I am, though, sick and tired of condescension because I lack a "killer leet gear" mindset.

New gear is ONE fun aspect of mmorpgs. New items, trinkets, mods, finding the best combination, min maxing, tweaking. Its the meta game.

1. New gear is fine. It doesn't have to be more powerful.

2. Tweaking = reconfiguring gear, customizing gear. Switching gear between equally powerful alternatives. That's fine. It doesn't have to have more total stats though.

You sound terrible. Then again you're probably trolling and pretending to be completely terrible. Hard to tell since you're so convincing.

Root of your problem - You're speaking as if gear is the point of the game.

 

In fact, it's mostly what's wrong with these games.

 

Fun with your friends, or fun on your own (a new concept to the genre, but now valid) is the point of these games.

 

Not having fun - don't play. Want to be measured? Use the ranking system to feel that boost of e-peeny goodness. That's your achievement. I'm not one of those "the gear gap was impossible" people, but it's not like you need a greater advantage for already being better? That's the "elitist" community in these games coming out in the design, and I, for one, am glad it's dying.

 

If some FPS kid wants to come in and beat me, let him. I'll either school him in a whole new type of game, or bow to him respectfully when he wins. I don't need an advantage for having more playtime. Your brain is your advantage.

As i said in an earlier post. It's ONE aspect that is also a fun one. It's the meta game of getting the best min-max outfit, finding new combinations when they release new trinkets and gear.

And it's an additional thing to work towards that lots of people enjoy.

YOUR oppinion is that it's "what's wrong" with mmorpgs. Others beleive it's a fun addition, one that you causuals have been trying to deny us all this time.

You guys have been crying your eyes out over the 5% stat disparity that BM gear offers over Champion gear.

YOU want to limit MY fun and my sense of progression.

And here we have a great post representing a large part of the community that doesn't speak up so often... +1

I will add my +1 to this as well. PvP used to be about fun in older games I played. Not about gear chasing. I have no problem with them adding titles, apperence gear, etc, but stats should remain equal to create real competition. It isn't competition if you are only winning because of your gear, and the new level 50's just have to keep sucking until they get their gear.

I do feel for the fact that a lot of you worked hard to get the gear, but Bioware should never have implemented this system to start with.

YOUR oppinion is that it's "what's wrong" with mmorpgs. Others beleive it's a fun addition, one that you causuals have been trying to deny us all this time.

The large and important player constituency that I represent disagrees with the small and more or less irrelevant constituency that you claim to represent.

You're hardcore. You already are more skilled than the casuals. You'll beat them with equal gear. Unless you're afraid that perhaps you won't?

Hardcore doesn't mean you're good. Hardcore means you don't have anything else going on in your life and can spend 15 hours a day at your keyboard.

Hardcore means you have little of value in your life aside from the character you created. The game is the one place where you can have something that no one else does. It is the one place where others look up to you, and envy you for what you have.

And when the devs open it up and allow everyone to have what the hardcores have, they don't feel like unique snowflakes anymore. They are right back to being average, just like they are in the real world.

They never seem to learn that in these games, it's not about what you have, it's about making the most of what you got.

What's the point of gearing at all if it doesn't give you an edge? We may as well just all fight naked.

That is the problem with making gear equivalent regardless of how long you spend playing the game.

I have no problem with solo queue people getting gear so long as it takes them time to get it. It also helps the team game because it will be easier to find geared teammates to recruit.

I haven't seen patch 1.2, so I'm not going to jump to conclusions here, but if a casual gamer can play 5 hours a week and get a full War Hero set in a month, then yes - something is wrong. If it still takes time for solo people to grind out the War Hero set, I don't see what the problem is.

1. New gear is fine. It doesn't have to be more powerful.

 

2. Tweaking = reconfiguring gear, customizing gear. Switching gear between equally powerful alternatives. That's fine. It doesn't have to have more total stats though.

 

You sound terrible. Then again you're probably trolling and pretending to be completely terrible. Hard to tell since you're so convincing.

Fine lets halt ALL gear progression from now on. Only cosmetic mods in PvP and PvE from here on until they pull the plug.

EVERYONE can man up and join the ranked warzone and compete for the best stuff. It's not like there is anything stopping you. But no that would take actually effort and skill on your part.

Hardcore doesn't mean you're good. Hardcore means you don't have anything else going on in your life and can spend 15 hours a day at your keyboard.

 

Hardcore means you have little of value in your life aside from the character you created. The game is the one place where you can have something that no one else does. It is the one place where others look up to you, and envy you for what you have.

 

And when the devs open it up and allow everyone to have what the hardcores have, they don't feel like unique snowflakes anymore. They are right back to being average, just like they are in the real world.

 

They never seem to learn that in these games, it's not about what you have, it's about making the most of what you got.

Well, there is a correlation between playing time and skill - even if it's just from experience playing the game.

But you're right, hardcore does not equal skilled.