I love how people calling Arcann a monster / war criminal and the likes seem to forget that our most DS PC are really no better (well even our most LS characters have blood on their hands too)

But it seems that what is ok for a PC is not for a NPC...

 

About an explanation, i could go just fine with say "X disapeared during a battle" or other explanation that are not too explicit. It gives context, and then you're free to expand on it (said character can be dead, prisonner somewhere a deserter, anything you want) or just ignore it, especially considering it's only visible in codex entries.

The difference is we're the player character so we're above the law, jokes aside I can relate to wanting him to stand trial if you're playing LS at least.

That's not a bad idea, I mean maybe leave the battle vague? I'm trying to think of a way, maybe something like "The hero of Tython disappeared shortly after the eternal empire invaded, his companions attempted to look for him but to no avail. No word of his whereabouts are known and as of yet he is presumed missing or dead." It's all I can think of that won't rustle some feathers.

The difference is we're the player character so we're above the law, jokes aside I can relate to wanting him to stand trial if you're playing LS at least.

That's not a bad idea, I mean maybe leave the battle vague? I'm trying to think of a way, maybe something like "The hero of Tython disappeared shortly after the eternal empire invaded, his companions attempted to look for him but to no avail. No word of his whereabouts are known and as of yet he is presumed missing or dead." It's all I can think of that won't rustle some feathers.

lol, seems so.

I can understand that too, though he can't try to redeem himself from a cell, and the situations with Arcann is somewhat similar to the one with Scourge, he can help you defeat Vaylin and Valkorion and can be more usefull with you on the battlefield than in a cell.

Yep.

I can live with no explaination for the smuggler, SI and JC as none of their companions appear in the main storyline (only in alerts), so we can just say that none of these 3 disapeared (if not the Outlander), but for all the other classes at least 1 of their companion features in the main story, so the other 5 are missing one way or another.

And that is a valid criticism, however that was not what Mike was on about, his complaint was the lack of the ability to kill Arcann which is there. I'm not defending Arcann here, if someone wants to kill him I don't blame him due to the fact he's a war criminal with blood on his hands, while I do like redeemed Arcann I don't blame anyone for killing Arcann and I do agree there should've been option for him to stand trial for his crimes. My point was he could kill Arcann but it was reliant on a choice which the game made it clear would affect the story.

Actually it is the same thing. Give him a *Trial and banish him to Tython or an execution before all the Politicians and everybody else gets involved and drags everything to a stop either would do. Just letting him go free like nothings happened is a slap to everybody that stood up to stop this (Alliance members, Deceased and living defenders, Everybody on the five planets Arcann ordered Vaylin to bombard from space (Death Tolls on a Planetary scale) out of Revenge. As before, He's never even *Apologized, opened with the term *Conqueror. Every character has killed somebody in this game maybe even a lot, but on this scale, not even close. His Living is an abomination of civilization. Execution to get it over with quickly, or banishment to somewhere safe for Senya's sake.

Actually it is the same thing. Give him a *Trial and banish him to Tython or an execution before all the Politicians and everybody else gets involved and drags everything to a stop either would do. Just letting him go free like nothings happened is a slap to everybody that stood up to stop this (Alliance members, Deceased and living defenders, Everybody on the five planets Arcann ordered Vaylin to bombard from space (Death Tolls on a Planetary scale) out of Revenge. As before, He's never even *Apologized, opened with the term *Conqueror. Every character has killed somebody in this game maybe even a lot, but on this scale, not even close. His Living is an abomination of civilization. Execution to get it over with quickly, or banishment to somewhere safe for Senya's sake.

From your own post

1, Missed the chance to kill Arcann; the most deserving person in the galaxy. Now he sleeps in a warm bed in a much better life then most in the galaxy. Surrounded by the Alliance (Hating him )protecting him from every sentient being that wants to avenge the *Trillions of mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and others that he killed, not only through his lust for power, also revenge. The most despicable person in the galaxy. The Segment on Odessan to resolve all that within his first introductory sentence he used the word "Conqueror". I don't remember an apology. He lives only for his mothers efforts. Is that indicative of somebody that appreciates what they have?

Seems to be you were complaining you couldn't kill Arcann, not "the player should be given the option for him to stand trial." My point is if you wanted to kill Arcann the path was clear to you, it's certainly bad that they didn't allowed the option for him to face justice for his crimes as a LS character but it is what it is and neither you nor I will be able to change. And he does say sorry, he constant hits the same key of "I regret what I've done". Not on this scale? Did you ever played Imp Side Makeb? You can kill the entire planet and doom the refugees trying to escape, a DS character can be just as evil as Vaylin or Arcann sometimes. I'll stop de-railing the thread any further though.

Every character has killed somebody in this game maybe even a lot, but on this scale, not even close. His Living is an abomination of civilization. Execution to get it over with quickly, or banishment to somewhere safe for Senya's sake.

We don't know how many people Scourge has killed during his 300 years as the Emperor's Wrath, probably a lot.

Angral killed nearly all living beings on Uphrades (and planed to do the same at least on Coruscant, Tattoine and Tython just to restart the war between Republic and Empire), so it was just a begining.

Jadus sacrificed a fair amound of imperial civilians just to gain more power.

Arcann ordered the bombing of the 5 planets, but Vaylin was the one who actually did it and seemed to enjoy doing it much more than Arcann ordering it.

We as player, can leave a fair amount of Jedi die at the end of the JC's chapter 1 class story, sacrifice a fair amount of civilians to stop Jadus, pretty much leave everyone to die on Makeb, let a fair amount of civilians die on Zakuul twice, let Valkorion kill nearly everyone on Asylum, and begin a reign of terror as a tyrant at the end of KOTET, and kill everyone who just speaks against your actions.

And finally Tenebrae / Vitiate / Valkorion.

We know for sure that he fed on every living beings on at least Nathema and Ziost, and planed to do the same on Belsavis, Voss and Corellia. He arranged for the Mandalorians to attack the Republic, just to test their strengh, resulting in a war ending in a high casualty number.

He fuelled the war between Republic and Empire more than once.

And we don't even know what else he did during his millenia long life.

And i'm pretty sure i forget some of them.

So while it's clear that Arcann did horrible things, he's far from being the worst person who ever lived in the Galaxy.

That would be his father actually. And Palpatine would probably come as a close second.

And he actually tells every time he gets the chance how a horrible person he was, how much he regrets and wants to make things right now.

Arcann has a much higher body count than any of the PCs. He might actually be the character with the most blood on his hands in the entire game, depending on exactly how one counts Vitiate's responsibility for the people killed in wars he's started.

Secondly, I look at Arcann from different perspectives for my different PCs. My DS characters might be evil, but they kill him for revenge. My LS characters are most certainly not war criminals and thus would be more interested in bringing Arcann to justice. My LS PCs would also want to bring my DS PCs to justice, but since that can't happen, it's sort of a moot point. Arcann should still be a mass murdered by the standards of a normal person, though, regardless of whatever any other possible PCs have done.

One thing that it comes to mind about missed opportunities, is Chapter 9 of Kotet. I liked the idea of the chapter, but I thought the dream would could have been customized more, like it was in Chapter 2 of Kotfe. I would have wanted to see more memories of our class stories, or maybe dreams of our old love interests. And since this was the last time we were going to interact with Valkorion, I think it would have been better to see his story come full circle. Maybe they should have brought back Doug Bradly to voice Vitiate again for part of it. Maybe we could have fought a memory of Vitiate's old self, a vision of his current form as Valkorion, and a dream of your future self that is possessed by him. That seems like it would have made a lot of sense, given what he was trying to do in that chapter. At the very least, they should have properly explained what his plan as the whole time. They claimed they would explain what his plan was before the expansion came out, but they still apparently left out vital information about it that was left for a forum post released months later.

Maybe we could have fought a memory of Vitiate's old self, a vision of his current form as Valkorion, and a dream of your future self that is possessed by him. That seems like it would have made a lot of sense, given what he was trying to do in that chapter.

This could've been a nice way to go in that chapter.

Kill him and get that story finally "Over With", or Compassion for Senya and banning Arcann to somewhere safe. Either would do at this point. I'm very certainly "Not The First" to mention "Missing" the Kill for Arcann and I'm confident this wont be the last. I actually did look up the Harkun kill scene, its behind another vague reply. This subject keeps coming up and will continue I'm sure

Again, that's on you and the people who didn't do the choice that led to killing Arcann, the situation was pretty adamant clear and if you didn't picked up on it that's on you, not on the devs, this isn't an overly complex dialogue/choice system, want to kill Arcann? Go through Senya, earn your DS points, kill him on chapter 6.

Click on that link please, it's pretty clear the kill choice is there, so you're either lying or you completely missed it. Again, on you, not the devs.

Arcann has a much higher body count than any of the PCs. He might actually be the character with the most blood on his hands in the entire game, depending on exactly how one counts Vitiate's responsibility for the people killed in wars he's started.

 

Secondly, I look at Arcann from different perspectives for my different PCs. My DS characters might be evil, but they kill him for revenge. My LS characters are most certainly not war criminals and thus would be more interested in bringing Arcann to justice. My LS PCs would also want to bring my DS PCs to justice, but since that can't happen, it's sort of a moot point. Arcann should still be a mass murdered by the standards of a normal person, though, regardless of whatever any other possible PCs have done.

 

One thing that it comes to mind about missed opportunities, is Chapter 9 of Kotet. I liked the idea of the chapter, but I thought the dream would could have been customized more, like it was in Chapter 2 of Kotfe. I would have wanted to see more memories of our class stories, or maybe dreams of our old love interests. And since this was the last time we were going to interact with Valkorion, I think it would have been better to see his story come full circle. Maybe they should have brought back Doug Bradly to voice Vitiate again for part of it. Maybe we could have fought a memory of Vitiate's old self, a vision of his current form as Valkorion, and a dream of your future self that is possessed by him. That seems like it would have made a lot of sense, given what he was trying to do in that chapter. At the very least, they should have properly explained what his plan as the whole time. They claimed they would explain what his plan was before the expansion came out, but they still apparently left out vital information about it that was left for a forum post released months later.

I'd say a DS character may have just as much blood TBH, there are some atrocities you can commit most notably the imp side ending for Makeb. Not condoning Arcann's actions by any stretch of the imagination, but he and Vaylin are nothing compared to my main outlander or to ever their own father. I do agree with that, it would've been nice to have the KOTFE/KOTET memories as well as your class memories, perhaps even a few more memories about SOR or Ziost would've been nice. And while Darin De Paul did an excellent job portraying the Emperor it would've been nice as a final showdown for Tenebrae to reveal his original body and be voiced by Doug Bradley. And yes, while I'm grateful Charles eventually answered the answer should've been in the expansion as opposed to letting intentionally vague like in the codex entry.

I really don't know of anyway we can do anything more to Tenebrae / Vitiate / Valkorion. Many of these SWTOR characters that also have High Death Count" are Sith so that Kind of explains itself and the struggle between the Republic (Despite its own Corruption) and the Sith.

One thing I do know. This is like an Open Wound, Festering and discounts everything in this story that most didn't want and even less stayed to see the end of not to mention the end disrupts the entire story line and building up to the end, plus this end Breaks the Character Bible for each (except maybe for Senya). Thinking what Solo, Mal. Reynolds or my own combat experience would do this makes no sense at all and it seems (I hope not) we'll have to drag that *^%$#**() around in quests while our older Rightfully Endeared companions wait in the corner collecting dust.

Maybe we could have fought a memory of Vitiate's old self, a vision of his current form as Valkorion, and a dream of your future self that is possessed by him.

That could have been really epic, I can imagine a future dream scene where we're so overcome with his power and we see scenes of our character destroying our own alliance and killing our companions, killing our LI's could have been a real gut-wrenching scene to serve as a big warning of what we could become.

I'd say a DS character may have just as much blood TBH, there are some atrocities you can commit most notably the imp side ending for Makeb. Not condoning Arcann's actions by any stretch of the imagination, but he and Vaylin are nothing compared to my main outlander or to ever their own father.

The darkside ending of Rise of the Hutt Cartel for Imperial characters results in tens of thousands of deaths. The Outlander with the highest possible kill count would probably be Imperial Agents who helped Darth Jadus on Eradication Day, I believe the full death toll of that reached hundreds of thousands.

Both cases fall far short of Arcann, who has the blood of "millions" on his hands, at least. We know Arcann killed millions when he invaded the Republic. We know that Arcann and Vaylin killed millions more when they destroyed those five worlds to send a message to the Alliance.

It's hard to say for sure, but Arcann may even have a higher body count than Vitiate. Vitiate consumed all life on Ziost and Nathema, perhaps other worlds too. He also killed many in the wars he started or instigated. It's clear he also has a body count in the millions, but it's unclear if it's a higher or lower number than Arcann.

He may have destroyed fewer worlds, but if you include the countless people he's oppressed or killed in the Sith Empire over the centuries and blame him for causing the Mandalorian Wars and/or Jedi Civil War, he'd probably count on top.

Vitiate would obviously have the highest attempted body count, even if he did not succeed.

The darkside ending of Rise of the Hutt Cartel for Imperial characters results in tens of thousands of deaths. The Outlander with the highest possible kill count would probably be Imperial Agents who helped Darth Jadus on Eradication Day, I believe the full death toll of that reached hundreds of thousands.

 

Both cases fall far short of Arcann, who has the blood of "millions" on his hands, at least. We know Arcann killed millions when he invaded the Republic. We know that Arcann and Vaylin killed millions more when they destroyed those five worlds to send a message to the Alliance.

 

It's hard to say for sure, but Arcann may even have a higher body count than Vitiate. Vitiate consumed all life on Ziost and Nathema, perhaps other worlds too. He also killed many in the wars he started or instigated. It's clear he also has a body count in the millions, but it's unclear if it's a higher or lower number than Arcann.

 

He may have destroyed fewer worlds, but if you include the countless people he's oppressed or killed in the Sith Empire over the centuries and blame him for causing the Mandalorian Wars and/or Jedi Civil War, he'd probably count on top.

 

Vitiate would obviously have the highest attempted body count, even if he did not succeed.

Vitiate definitely has the biggest kill count, I do count him instating the wars. I think perhaps the only person in the galaxy who may have a bigger kill count is perhaps Darth Sidious.

Vitiate definitely has the biggest kill count, I do count him instating the wars. I think perhaps the only person in the galaxy who may have a bigger kill count is perhaps Darth Sidious.

I'm not sure how Darth Sidious could have had a higher body count than Vitiate. Sidious reigned for only a few decades, Vitiate reigned for about 1300 hundred years longer than him.

I'm not sure how Darth Sidious could have had a higher body count than Vitiate. Sidious reigned for only a few decades, Vitiate reigned for about 1300 hundred years longer than him.

Between all the superweapons Sidious had created I'm pretty sure he must've killed millions, if not billions, of people. I mean if we're counting the deaths in the great galactic war, which were already quite high I'd assume, I think that Sidious and all the wars he's caused likely had even greater numbers. This is just conjecture of course as I don't believe we have official numbers on either of those wars, only war I know they've said something official was the Yuuzhan Vong war and that was up on the trillions.

How many times did Sidious actually get to use his superweapons though? You're right that we don't have exact numbers on the wars in the games and movies, but I think Vitiate initiated more wars than Palpatine.

Darth Sidious orchestrated the Clone Wars, and then his oppressive rule spurned the Galactic Civil War. Vitiate orchestrated the Mandalorian Wars, The Jedi Civil War, the Great Galactic War, and the second Great Galactic War (or whatever the main conflict in Swtor is called).

A reaction from Revan and Scourge seeing each other when you have Scourge as your companion during SoR, because as it is, it feels a bit stupid, that they're just standing there like they don't see each other.

Well, companion that are more than vegetables during SoR would've been nice too, with them actually reacting to what's happening.

How many times did Sidious actually get to use his superweapons though? You're right that we don't have exact numbers on the wars in the games and movies, but I think Vitiate initiated more wars than Palpatine.

 

Darth Sidious orchestrated the Clone Wars, and then his oppressive rule spurned the Galactic Civil War. Vitiate orchestrated the Mandalorian Wars, The Jedi Civil War, the Great Galactic War, and the second Great Galactic War (or whatever the main conflict in Swtor is called).

A lot of times, at least in legends. In canon too from what little I know of it, the base delta zeros... Eclypse, The Tarkin and world devastators during the Dark Empire comics. It's a pity we don't have official numbers since it could go either way but I think Sidious definitely caused an equal if not great amount of galactic devastation than Tenebrae.

A reaction from Revan and Scourge seeing each other when you have Scourge as your companion during SoR, because as it is, it feels a bit stupid, that they're just standing there like they don't see each other.

Well, companion that are more than vegetables during SoR would've been nice too, with them actually reacting to what's happening.

^This, as someone who very much enjoyed the novel I was sad to hear Scourge didn't had any unique dialogue, or Revan, for that meeting. It feels very odd that after centuries Scourge wouldn't react to Revan trying to resurrect Tenebrae and that Revan wouldn't say something to Lord Scourge, especially considering him killing one of his friends.

^This, as someone who very much enjoyed the novel I was sad to hear Scourge didn't had any unique dialogue, or Revan, for that meeting. It feels very odd that after centuries Scourge wouldn't react to Revan trying to resurrect Tenebrae and that Revan wouldn't say something to Lord Scourge, especially considering him killing one of his friends.

Yep, i loved the novel too, and considering that my main character is my JK and what happened between Scourge and Revan, it's quite sad that there was not even the tiniest bit of special line from Scourge and Revan upon seeing each other.