Future Nightmare content has been described as content that only the "best of the best" can accomplish. With the growing popularity of Snipers, I think it would be helpful to break down our three trees and analyze what each spec has to offer. I have ranked each spec (1st being best, 3rd worst) in 5 categories. Almost all of my experience comes from playing Lethality, so any added insight for the other two trees would be especially appreciated. Please keep discussion limited to PvE specs in an Ops situation.

 

Lethality (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bIZGbbkrMGdhRZb.2)

 

Sustained Single Target DPS: 1st

Burst Single Target DPS: 2nd

AOE DPS: 2nd (tied with MM)

Mobility: 2nd

Survivability/Raid Utility: 3rd

 

Discussion:

 

 

 

Marksman (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bfZhZbsrbdRsRGo.2)

 

Sustained Single Target DPS: 2nd

Burst Single Target DPS: 1st

AOE DPS: 2nd (tied with MM)

Mobility: 3rd

Survivability/Raid Utility: 2nd

 

Discussion:

 

 

 

 

Engineering (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400rI0bRorRrsZhZbcM.2)

 

Sustained Single Target DPS: 3rd

Burst Single Target DPS: 3rd

AOE DPS: 1st

Mobility: 1st

Survivability/Raid Utility: 1st

 

Discussion:

 

 

 

 

Conclusions (TLDR)

 

(Note: I will update these as I get more information from either personal testing or discussion from other snipers)

 

-If you are the only sniper in your Ops, Lethality is the way to go. Our primary job is DPS and the Burst/AOE DPS categories are specific to only some of the Ops fights. Sustained ST DPS will always be important, so Lethality is the best overall PvE spec.

 

-If there are multiple Snipers in your Ops group, consider going Marksman. Further testing needs to be done, but stacking Lethality Snipers may be a DPS loss for the raid in the end and MM is the next best choice.

 

-If the fight is healing intensive and your healers are struggling, consider going Engineering. While Engineering probably has the worst DPS of the 3 specs in most situations, it also has the best survivability for both you and your Ops. Never forget the old MMO addage: "You can't DPS if you're dead".

 

In the end, if your Ops group can consistently down all the end game content, play the spec you most enjoy! This post/discussion is intended to help those looking to squeeze out every advantage for the needs of their particular Ops group. Discuss away!

Edited July 14, 2012 by Rischardo

You have posted some good points. I think you've covered most of the qualitative comparisons between specs that are frequently discussed. In my opinion, however, your quantitative conclusions (i.e. sustained DPS, burst DPS) are not strongly supported with evidence.

 

As a counterpoint to these quantitative conclusions, simulations do not agree with your sustained DPS rankings. Simulationcraft, for example, ranks Marksmanship first, Engineering 2nd, and Lethality 3rd in sustained DPS. Valid arguments can surely be made as to why the simulations are inaccurate, but of course that should not preclude people who disagree with the simulations from needing to show why instead their own conclusions are accurate.

As a counterpoint to these quantitative conclusions, simulations do not agree with your sustained DPS rankings. Simulationcraft, for example, ranks Marksmanship first, Engineering 2nd, and Lethality 3rd in sustained DPS. Valid arguments can surely be made as to why the simulations are inaccurate, but of course that should not preclude people who disagree with the simulations from needing to show why instead their own conclusions are accurate.

 

Thanks for the reply! As far as simulations are concerned, I question their validity (as you predicted that many would). Simulationcraft, for instance, must have had a really weird Lethality rotation because SoS was my top damage in the scenarios I tested. For the "sit still and do nothing" option, I can achieve about the same DPS that Simulationcraft averaged using the standard Lethality rotation. I honestly don't have the time nor the desire to figure out how to tweak the priority system of these simulators. In the end, we are humans and cannot perfectly emulate what the simulators suggest due to server lag, user lag, and user ability. Conversely, a computer cannot make the same split second decisions that a human can depending on the particular situation at hand.

 

The evidence I can offer (or anyone else for that matter) is at best, anecdotal. For example, even if I was able to dig up the Denova parses between myself and our (now former) MM sniper, there are simply too many variables. Perhaps the other sniper had an off day and wasn't using the "optimal" MM rotation or maybe his stats aren't "balanced" correctly. In any case, despite our similar gear level and player abilities, the MM sniper consistently did a little less DPS than my Lethality sniper. Personally, I also do less overall DPS on the test dummy as a MM (I haven't seriously tried since 1.2 though).

 

Engineering becomes even more hectic. As a priority based build, the spec lends itself even more to human error as there is no simple rotation that lets you go on "auto pilot". A computer can instantly determine the best next ability that should be used based on the CDs of the other skills and current energy level. A human can only go by a VERY vague ranking system.

 

Again, my personal parses show that Engineering does about 100-150 less DPS than Lethality on the Ops test dummy. (http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/510adc3b-3213-47d3-93c8-c763f0246cfc/overview#d=0,t=1,b=1) The only time Engineering could match Lethality was if I opened up with OS and if I was lucky with those OS crits. I admit, given my lack of experience with the build, I may be doing it wrong and I welcome the advice of experienced Engineering Snipers who can do better DPS than Lethality. In fact, I hope that someone can show me otherwise, as it's always fun to perfect a new build.

 

That all said, anecdotal evidence is really all we have to go by. Simulations cannot account for the specific mechanics of each fight or the particular situations a Sniper may find him/herself in. Perhaps my ranking system is incorrect if each spec is played to absolute perfection, but some things just aren't possible for 99% of the player population.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Rischardo

You have posted some good points. I think you've covered most of the qualitative comparisons between specs that are frequently discussed. In my opinion, however, your quantitative conclusions (i.e. sustained DPS, burst DPS) are not strongly supported with evidence.

 

As a counterpoint to these quantitative conclusions, simulations do not agree with your sustained DPS rankings. Simulationcraft, for example, ranks Marksmanship first, Engineering 2nd, and Lethality 3rd in sustained DPS. Valid arguments can surely be made as to why the simulations are inaccurate, but of course that should not preclude people who disagree with the simulations from needing to show why instead their own conclusions are accurate.

While my grammar will not be that good I can tell you already that the simulationcraft is WAY off or the snipers are naked lol mainly because I myself avg 2100 on bosses and simulationcraft says lethal only avg 1590?? why the 410 dps difference so eithor its WAY off or the gear you put in their is horrible cause I know for a fact that MM and Lethal and Egineering all have to gear differently. also one more thing I just looked over their simulationcraft thing and it has cull as the worst dps out their and from what it show they are spamming SS.....cull should be doing atleast 30% of your dps not 10% and SS should not be doing 45% of your dps.

Edited July 15, 2012 by marineopferman
looked at the simulation craft.

Sorry one more thing it also shows weak corrosive grenade and dart ....ANY lethal sniper worth his salt who doesnt refresh his poisons before they hit weak should go MM thats a HUGE dps loss...going from 1k a tick to 200 a tick

Sorry one more thing (I know I know I should just shut up ) but I looked at the gear your simulation craft did and ANY sniper who wears ALL field tech...needs to just stop being a sniper the mods are just wrong for us need to switch out gear mainly. Also remember 90% of the bosses out their have STRONG kinetic defense and weak internal defense so that might be why simulation craft goes for straight dmg while in game life it isnt like that the kinetic dmg reduc hurts MM ALOT and wont hit as hard as it did their. while lethal dmg reduc is MUCH MUCH smaller so it might be the difference thier not sure as I am still reading up on simulationcraft. (once again sorry about the grammar) Edited July 15, 2012 by marineopferman
lethal

lol noticed another thing...what is up with these stats for this place?? what sniper only has 1306 cunning? a sniper wants 2k cunning unbuffed. eithor way I think whoever put that gear togethor needs to take another look.

While my grammar will not be that good I can tell you already that the simulationcraft is WAY off or the snipers are naked lol mainly because I myself avg 2100 on bosses .

 

You average 2100 DPS? Sorry, I have a tough time believing this. Most min-maxed Snipers claim/show parses of around 1800-1900 DPS on a single target for an Ops test dummy. Let's not even talk about how most boss fights have some sort of mechanic that lowers your DPS (movement, periods of immunity/down time with nothing to DPS etc.) I think the one time I had 2100+ DPS on a mostly single target fight was the last fight in HM LI, but that's because of the increased damage the boss takes in phase 3.

 

My DPS can spike past 2000 DPS in the opening moments of a fight with OS and adrenals, but I don't know anyone who can sustain that. I'd like to see a parse showing you actually do 2100 DPS over at least 3 minutes on a single target.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Rischardo

Also, Tibbel, you seem to be a household name in the Sniper community. I know absolutely nothing about the MM/Engineering hybrid. Could you share your thoughts on how MM/Engineering hybrid stacks up against the 3 "pure" specs in the 5 categories?

Nice quadruple post there. ;>

 

Anyway as with other classes Snipers have gotten a great gift with the Field Respec. Discussions like this have to be done on a boss by boss basis and even then your role (and spec) in the fight can differ occasionally.

 

For example Marksmanship is better when being part of the team dealing with Zorn and Kephess.

Engeneering is nice for the Colonel but a no-go for Nightmare Pilgrim.

Just to put some examples out there.

 

This is the one thing a simulator won't be able to show (even if you update the equipment and rotations). This is more important for Snipers than for other classes because the specs are a lot closer together.

Nice quadruple post there. ;>

Anyway as with other classes Snipers have gotten a great gift with the Field Respec. Discussions like this have to be done on a boss by boss basis and even then your role (and spec) in the fight can differ occasionally.

.

 

I refuse to buy Field Respec because I was so against it in the form that went live. I admit that combined with the reduced respec costs, it's not horrible, but I will hold out as long as possible; it's the principle of the matter!

 

That said, I don't think changing specs according to the boss fight is currently necessary, even for HM Denova. For instance, my guild DPSes Zorn and Toth down so fast that we have issues with the switch because the first tank still has fearful. Backing up a little early before the jump actually helps in some ways.

 

So why did I bother to include things like "burst DPS" and "AOE DPS" as categories? Well, in the future NM fights may not be so forgiving. For instance, maybe your particular Ops group is low on AOE DPS and suddenly you find yourself struggling with the Trandoshian adds phase during Kephess. Switching to Engineering for that one fight might make all the difference.

I have to agree with Rischardo on practically all points made. Nice write up!

Tibbel I certainly respect your hard work on all the simulationcraft for the sniper community, and greatly appreciate it, however I have yet to see ANY proof that MM ENG or any variation hybrid of the two can sustain lethality's numbers in an actual raid setting, only on paper. It may look good on paper but so many things are unaccounted for in regards to a sustained rotation in a live raid setting that make these claims somewhat silly. As far as precluding ourselves from proof, the parses from live raids speak for themselves. Also my brain hurts just thinking about calculating all the caveats for lethality dps such as energy refunds via dot crits, the increase damage to target sub 30%, etc...Way too many variables for me to even think of modeling. Currently no raid encounter pushes anything but lethality to the top of the food chain, or else I would be running it. All it would take is one parse to show it, but I have yet to see one, or produce one. And good god I have tried. I ran MM forever when I first starting playing. After testing and experimenting countless times over, Lethality is it. No contest. That being said thanks for the stat calc. You cant argue with a stat scaling model that is accurate.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Poostabby

Could you share your thoughts on how MM/Engineering hybrid stacks up against the 3 "pure" specs in the 5 categories?

 

Thoughts aren't really all that useful for the first 3 categories. (Who cares what spec some guy thinks is the highest DPS? We just wanna know which one is the highest. ) Just like everyone else, I don't have any empirical data that addresses inter-spec DPS balance. We can make some assumptions based on interpretations of mechanics and perform calculations based on models, but that's all I've seen so far. I've included the assumptions I have made in the spoiler tag below.

 

 

 

 

I have yet to see ANY proof that MM ENG or any variation hybrid of the two can sustain lethality's numbers in an actual raid setting, only on paper.

 

And I haven't seen any proof that Lethality is so hands-down ahead of every other spec, either. Fair enough?

 

As far as precluding ourselves from proof, the parses from live raids speak for themselves.

 

My problem with what I've seen with raid combat log parses is that they have not been evaluated scientifically (compared apples-to-apples, so to speak). It's not convincing to me to say, "I always beat the other snipers in the raid who are X spec," or even, "I used to be X, but now I'm Y, and I do better now."

 

To satisfy that need... do you think that we, as a sniper community, could pull off a scientific study? I'd be happy to design and organize it, and even to compile the results, but we'd need probably at least a few dozen snipers to all agree to execute it and be diligent in recording results and conditions in a consistent way. Anyone down?

 

Also my brain hurts just thinking about calculating all the caveats for lethality dps such as energy refunds via dot crits, the increase damage to target sub 30%, etc...Way too many variables for me to even think of modeling.

 

Yeah, that would be a nightmare to calculate in your head. Y'ought to try using the spreadsheet, which does all that for you.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Tibbel

You average 2100 DPS? Sorry, I have a tough time believing this. Most min-maxed Snipers claim/show parses of around 1800-1900 DPS on a single target for an Ops test dummy. Let's not even talk about how most boss fights have some sort of mechanic that lowers your DPS (movement, periods of immunity/down time with nothing to DPS etc.) I think the one time I had 2100+ DPS on a mostly single target fight was the last fight in HM LI, but that's because of the increased damage the boss takes in phase 3.

 

My DPS can spike past 2000 DPS in the opening moments of a fight with OS and adrenals, but I don't know anyone who can sustain that. I'd like to see a parse showing you actually do 2100 DPS over at least 3 minutes on a single target.

 

Guess I should have said the boss G4- B3 Heavy Fabricator the only one I have ever been able to do that on LOL kinda cheap if you think about the nonstop NO armor on him LOL but trust me man get group and just spam him with no armor if your getting 2k on other bosses you will beat me on him.

MM is the best sustained dps spec, here is a dummy parse and an ops parse reflecting that.

 

....oh wait.

Guess I should have said the boss G4- B3 Heavy Fabricator the only one I have ever been able to do that on LOL kinda cheap if you think about the nonstop NO armor on him LOL but trust me man get group and just spam him with no armor if your getting 2k on other bosses you will beat me on him.

 

hey man, I can tell you're sincere and I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but I've seen some of your other posts and I think some people may have misinformed you about some aspects of the game. I know you're trying to be helpful, but you're doing more harm than good if you don't have your facts straight. Heavy Fabricator is NOT a good indicator of your overall average DPS for the very reason you said, so I hope you don't go around claiming you do 2200 DPS. Now that I think about it, I honestly think I parsed once on Heavy Fabricator at 3300 DPS over the entire fight (although the people working the puzzle were very good and we used the "fire only the right terminal" strat).

 

MM/Eng Hybrid

Sustained DPS: Total energy regeneration is exactly the same as pure MM -- 20 energy from Imperial Methodology every 30 seconds is the same net value as the 30 energy from a well-executed Sniper Volley every 45 seconds, assuming neither allows energy to cap. MM/Eng does gain a high-DPE attack in IP, so it could balance out or even exceed pure MM's Imperial Assassin damage, but that could also depend on crit. I have not performed an analysis on this since patch 1.3, and as far as I have seen, MM/Eng's sustained DPS ranking is untested.

 

Burst DPS: Cluster Bombs adds residual damage to one of our primary burst abilities (EP) in addition to adding burst energy regen, which allows higher prioritization of high-DPCT abilities. It can't compete with a fully-loaded Cull, but it also does require less set-up time following a target switch. Which is preferable is probably subjective and situational.

 

AoE: Due to its option of including Engineer's Tool Belt and Experimental Explosives, MM/Eng has better AoE damage potential than MM, both in burst and sustain. No Plasma Probe means it can't compete with pure Eng. How it compares with pure Leth is untested, but my prediction is that MM/Eng is higher.

 

Mobility: MM/Eng has IP as an ability that is instant and does not require cover, which pure MM does not have access to. It also has a longer cooldown on SoS and lacks SV, so its required channeling time is lower than pure MM, and probably very comparable to pure Eng. However it still relies on Sniper's Nest for added energy regen, so it does lose some damage when movement is needed. I suppose I would rank its performance under heavy movement above that of pure MM, but lower than pure Eng or pure Leth. However, if there's literally no time to stop and channel SoS or Cull, then MM/Eng is probably the best of all specs due to its low dependence on channeled abilities.

 

Survivability/Raid Utility: MM/Eng does not have the option to spec into Siege Bunker at the top of the MM tree, nor can it spec into Augmented Shields or Deployed Shields at the top of the Eng tree. It does, however have access to both Ballistic Dampers in MM and either Vital Regulators or Vitality Serum in the 2nd tier of Eng. I haven't seen any mathematical analysis of sniper defensive options, so it's hard to say how it ranks in survivability compared to other specs.

 

Raid Utility is another subjective and situational topic. I can say that if you need to reduce an add's movement speed and accuracy, then there's no better spec for the job.

 

Thanks for this Tibbel, would you mind if I updated my original post with this (I'll give credit where credit is due )

 

As far as raid utility is concerned, I understand it is subjective and situational. The way I looked at it, though, was that Snipers really only have defensive raid utility. We don't have blood thirst or pulls that easily reposition mobs. We can only prevent damage, either to ourselves or the raid (hence why I lumped them together).

 

It's not convincing to me to say, "I always beat the other snipers in the raid who are X spec," or even, "I used to be X, but now I'm Y, and I do better now." To satisfy that need... do you think that we, as a sniper community, could pull off a scientific study?

 

I actually somewhat agree with this. There was a guy another thread saying "Our MM snipers switched to lethality, but did worse so they switched back" and claimed that as proof that MM was better. It doesn't prove that one spec is better than another; it could also prove that his snipers are taking the full advantage of MM, but not lethality.

 

That said, we have a ton of circumstantial evidence that suggests that lethality is our highest ST DPS. Many experienced Snipers have run countless tests between MM and Lethality and most, if not all, came to the conclusion that Lethality is superior. Coupled with the fact that virtually all of a MM's sniper damage is mitigated in some way, all of this circumstantial evidence points in favor of Lethality.

 

Before you knock on circumstantial evidence, keep in mind that it is sufficient to convict criminals, even if the potential sentence is death. And you use circumstantial evidence more in your every day life than you realize; for instance, every time you drive through an intersection, you just used circumstantial evidence. You saw that your light was green and "knew" that it was safe to go through. But did you actually know that it was safe? You can't actually see if the light is red for the cross traffic...it is entirely possible that the traffic light is malfunctioning, so you don't actually know that it's working as intended. Yet despite this possibility, I'm sure you drive through your green light without giving it a second thought.

 

The situation is analogous to the comparison between Lethality and MM. You're absolutely correct in saying that we don't actually know if Lethality is the best. But the experience for the vast majority of Snipers has shown that Lethality beats out MM. In the traffic light example, you could stop your car, hop out, check if the light was red and only then proceed through the intersection. In this case, we could run a big scientific study to compare the damage potential of the 3 specs and make sure the combat logs are working correctly. However, in the end, you'll end up finding out what you already knew from the circumstantial evidence: the light is green...just like the sludge from Lethality's corrosive grenade.

 

Now, I'm not saying that this means the community should just stop and accept that Lethality is the best. Given the fact that I see many MM Snipers "complaining" that they have energy to spare makes me wonder if a MM stacking alacrity could do more DPS by spending the excess energy faster. Tests like these should still be done. However, I feel that a test to ensure that the combat log is working correctly is excessive and unnecessary.

The 'perfect' rotation for MM and Engineering can only be done by a computer. Lethality is more lenient : anyone with the gear can do good dps on the dummy.

 

Since it's a game, just play the way you enjoy. Lethality is definitely the FoTM right now, that does not mean it'll stay that way forever. As it stands, most players already have enough DPS to kill every boss in the game, it's STAYING ALIVE which is the issue. With 1.4, we may see everyone stacking on Endurance rather than cunning!!

Rischardo not to be insulting in the least bit but you just asked where i did it and thats where I dont mean to be misleading but if their is any other post that I have put in please send me a mssg so i can improve myself or atleast put it in your sentence so i can learn instead of leaving me out to dry

...all of this circumstantial evidence points in favor of Lethality.

 

I'm fully in agreement that circumstantial evidence is used all the time and generally to good effect. My primary issue with it is when we call that "proof". Often when there is evidence supporting a certain conclusion but that evidence is not scientifically conclusive, then we say it "suggests" a certain conclusion. (See "Boson, Higgs" for an example of a conclusion that recently crossed that threshold. )

 

Basically what I'm saying is that, in my opinion, the best wording is something like:

 

Observations made by snipers of various specs in operations settings suggest that Lethality consistently produces the highest sustained DPS against single targets. However, conclusive inter-spec DPS data does has not yet been generated.

 

It's not my thread, though, so that call is up to you.

Tibbel is absolutely correct. You cannot take a bunch of anecdotes from forum posts and claim to prove anything about dps potentials of different specs.

 

Fortunately, we have access to a very good combat simulator that will (barring any programming bugs in the simulator) tell us the true dps potential of any spec. I spent a bit of time experimenting with the action lists for the 3 pure specs, trying to maximize dps. Here is what I came up with:

 

Marksman

actions=stim,type=exotech_skill
actions+=/coordination
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/take_cover,if=buff.take_cover.down
actions+=/shatter_shot,if=buff.shatter_shot.remains<1.5
actions+=/use_relics
actions+=/power_potion
actions+=/adrenaline_probe,if=energy<=76
actions+=/target_acquired,if=energy<=100
actions+=/laze_target
actions+=/sniper_volley,if=cooldown.series_of_shots.remains>5
actions+=/followthrough,if=buff.followthrough.up&energy>=72
actions+=/ambush,if=buff.reactive_shot.up&energy>=81
actions+=/series_of_shots,if=energy>86
actions+=/orbital_strike,if=energy>=96
actions+=/takedown,if=energy>=81
actions+=/snipe,if=energy>=86&cooldown.followthrough.remains<=1.5
actions+=/explosive_probe,if=energy>=86
actions+=/corrosive_dart,if=energy>=86&!dot.corrosive_dart.ticking
actions+=/snipe,if=energy>=86
actions+=/rifle_shot

 

Engineering

actions=stim,type=rakata_skill
actions+=/coordination
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/take_cover,if=buff.take_cover.down
actions+=/shatter_shot,if=buff.shatter_shot.remains<1.5
actions+=/use_relics
actions+=/power_potion
actions+=/adrenaline_probe,if=energy<=40
actions+=/target_acquired,if=energy<=100
actions+=/emp_discharge,if=dot.interrogation_probe.remains
actions+=/plasma_probe,if=energy>=82|buff.energy_overrides.up|cooldown.adrenaline_probe.remains<1.5
actions+=/explosive_probe,,if=energy>=82|buff.energy_overrides.up|cooldown.adrenaline_probe.remains<1.5
actions+=/orbital_strike,if=energy>=96|cooldown.adrenaline_probe.remains<1.5
actions+=/series_of_shots,if=energy>86|cooldown.adrenaline_probe.remains<1.5
actions+=/interrogation_probe,if=energy>=82|cooldown.adrenaline_probe.remains<1.5
actions+=/takedown,if=energy>=81|cooldown.adrenaline_probe.remains<1.5
actions+=/ambush,if=energy>=81|cooldown.adrenaline_probe.remains<1.5
actions+=/laze_target
actions+=/snipe,if=energy>=86|cooldown.adrenaline_probe.remains<1.5
actions+=/rifle_shot

 

Lethality

actions=stim,type=exotech_skill
actions+=/coordination
actions+=/snapshot_stats
actions+=/take_cover,if=buff.take_cover.down
actions+=/shatter_shot,if=buff.shatter_shot.remains<1.5
actions+=/use_relics
actions+=/power_potion
actions+=/adrenaline_probe,if=energy<=76
actions+=/target_acquired,if=energy<=100
actions+=/orbital_strike,if=energy>=96
actions+=/corrosive_grenade,if=!ticking&energy>=86
actions+=/corrosive_dart,if=!ticking&energy>=86
actions+=/weakening_blast
actions+=/cull,if=energy>=91&(dot.corrosive_dart.ticking|dot.corrosive_dart_weak.ticking)&(dot.corrosive_grenade.ticking|dot.corrosive_grenade_weak.ticking)
actions+=/series_of_shots,if=energy>86
actions+=/takedown,if=energy>=81
actions+=/explosive_probe,if=energy>=86
actions+=/ambush,if=energy>=81
actions+=/rifle_shot

 

 

The setting I used:

Fight length - 300s (with up to 20% variation on each trial)

Iterations - 10000

Fight style - Patchwerk (no movement)

 

The dps numbers (which are dependent on imported gear)

Marksman - 1827

Engineering - 1782

Lethality - 1655

 

The more people that start experimenting with the simulator the better. Try to come up with higher dps action lists, try different fight styles, player skill settings, etc.

The combat simulator setup for Lethality is too simplistic : you need to use a cycle instead of watching the energy level. No Lethality sniper will uses the rotation in the script.

The combat simulator setup for Lethality is too simplistic : you need to use a cycle instead of watching the energy level. No Lethality sniper will uses the rotation in the script.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I did ask for help improving the action lists though!

The script is pretty hard to write.

 

Let's ignore the 'perfect rotation' for a moment. Most Lethality snipers uses something like below:

 

CG -> CD -> WB -> Cull -> [Orbital Strike/SoS/Ambush/EP/Rifle shot] -> Cull -> Rifle Shot.

 

To model this, you'll need to add a 'timer' condition on ticks remaining on Corrosive Grenade for each slot.

 

If Adrenaline Probe and Relic/Adrenal is up, they will alter the rotation to:

 

CG -> CD -> Orbital Strike -> WB (Use Andrenal) -> Cull -> (Adrenaline probe) SoS -> Ambush -> Cull

 

That will allow for the maximum use of the power boost, as it'll last through 2 x Cull, all Orbital Strikes, SoS and Ambush.

Yeah something is definately off with those simcraft priority lists

 

I don't know how to actually program those things myself but i'm pretty sure I can read them well enough and I'm seeing 2 major flaws with both specs. Series of Shots is weighted far to high in both cases and I wanted to look into why and I found this.

 

MM : Average FT Interval of 7.98s... Surely if the sim is showing the 'ideal' situation that should be rather close to 6s (though not exactly as it would be delayed by the SV burst rotation every 45s as Tibbel mentions in his compendium). 37 followthroughs in a 5min fight is just bad. This one should be easy enough to fix... just add in a higher priority of snipe if followthrough buff isnt up or has a duration of less than 1.5s and if followthroughs cooldown is < 1.5s

 

Then the real biggy with lethality : An average interval on cull of 19.38s... say what?! Yet rifle shot with only an average of 7s intervals... definately something wrong there if the sim is using cull less than half of what is available... 15 culls in a 5 min encounter is utterly terrible

Edited July 16, 2012 by theangryllama

Yeah, the simulation crafters are completely off with lethality, not sure exactly what but the priority is completely off everytime.

 

Has anyone ever produced MM parses of around 1,900+ though as we've seen with lethality? I know I get 1,800~ with leth and around 1,650 with MM.