Hi all,

So yeah, I feel like people shouldn't be punished for being poor or encountering financial difficulties. I'd much rather see an 'Early Access' model than an 'Only Access', where you can only have access to content if you happened to have enough money at the time to afford the Collector's Edition or subscribe. I speak as someone who has the collector's edition and feel frustrated that potentially one of the best bits of RP gear, the Imperial Trooper armour has been locked behind such a massive paywall.

I also speak as someone who went through a year or two of financial difficulty and so have missed out on a number of HK rewards, and given that Bioware seem to have done such a fantastic job of making HK an amazingly engaging character, it does disappoint me that I won't be able to access him at all, ever, simply because I was being screwed over by RL circumstances.

I understand EA have to make a revenue, and I don't expect everything to be handed out for free, but if things were put on the Cartel Market for a period of time after others who 'bought the thing' or 'had enough money at the time', for those who end up finding themsleves in a better place, it would at least give people a chance to catch up on content they've missed. I wouldn't even care if I had to wait a year before being able to access it, just knowing that if I spent some time saving up for it, whilst I might not have money at the time when it was 'available', I could at least get it later.

So, that's my suggestion for the Cartel Market. Allow people a chance to purchase things they've missed out on because life just wasn't being kind to them at the time. Don't kick people whilst they're down.

although i feel for you and your finacial hardship i have felt the strain of the economy and i did purchase the collectors edition for one reason. for the exclusive gear that the vendor was supposed to update regularly. i stress the words regularly. guess what pretty much the same items have been there for 5 years. do you want to know where all the good looking and exclusive gear went? two words cartel market....

i cant feel sorry for you as much as i feel for all them collector ediiton holders that truly got the shaft from bioware. they could easily release some of the older cartel market stuff reskin it or color it differently and then put it on the collectors edition vendor but nope they wont. sorry but seeing stuff like this strikes a nerve with me. i do subscribe and i almost subscribed for the entire year missed the hk droid quest to have him as a companion by days. literally days i subbed two or three days after that january 11th deadline and subbed every month after. i missed it and i have to live with that oh well. the only thing actually worth a damn was the jet pack imo.

1) They have never, in the history of the game, offered a subscriber reward to the people who didn't meet the qualifications for it.

2) The approximate subscription cost for those who earned the reward is $120 so I would not be opposed to them selling the chapter on the Cartel Market for something like 20,000 coins to represent both the full cost of acquiring the chapter and a penalty so that its value isn't lessened for those who acquired it as intended.

This would allow people who wanted it right now to pay for it and those who couldn't afford it would still be able to earn it via the monthly subscriber coins.

Missing a promotional window is not a punishment so enough of that nonsense.

We all have lives and commitments outside of swtor so enough of that nonsense as well as it's insulting to me that you think that just cuz I have something you don't that somehow I have no real-life concerns that I have to juggle. Just stop it.

It's up to each person to choose what they do with their money and what their priorities are. It's not up to BioWare or anyone else to try and take into account every single persons' unique situation since that's actually impossible.

You missed the promo window cuz you had other things going on and that's great. You prioritized as you saw fit. You're not going to get everything you want in life and that's ok.

{But, if you want to be ridiculous, instead of blaming BioWare, how about blaming the cause of your financial situation for punishing you in that you missed a video game promotional incentive?}

1) They have never, in the history of the game, offered a subscriber reward to the people who didn't meet the qualifications for it.

 

2) The approximate subscription cost for those who earned the reward is $120 so I would not be opposed to them selling the chapter on the Cartel Market for something like 20,000 coins to represent both the full cost of acquiring the chapter and a penalty so that its value isn't lessened for those who acquired it as intended.

This would allow people who wanted it right now to pay for it and those who couldn't afford it would still be able to earn it via the monthly subscriber coins.

I do not think that BW should make ay of the subscriber rewards available again, but IF they chose to do so, I think that using CC's should NOT be an option to purchase any of the subscriber rewards. There are too many CC's out there that were simply subscriber stipends, security key stipends or referral stipends and as such do not generate any additional revenue for BW. All purchases of past subscriber rewards should be real money only.

Single month subscriber rewards should be $20 IMO. This is higher than the cost of a single month subscription, but the additional cost is just an additional incentive to subscribe. Why wait and pay more than a month's subscription when I can just pay that month's subscription now and get the reward in addition to being able to play with no restrictions.

The bonus chapter, and any future long term subscription rewards, should be no less than the cost of a single month's subscription multiplied by the number of months subscription required to be eligible for the reward and I think an additional 10-15% is not unreasonable. In the case of the bonus chapter, that would be no less than $120 ($15 per month X 8 months) and I think it should be at least $130.

Anyone purchasing these subscription rewards, after all, would be someone who did not even qualify to receive those rewards and as such should expect, or at least not be surprised, to have to pay more than those who DID qualify to receive those rewards.

I think you'll find my suggestion actually does take into account a lot of people's situations and actually, no, financial hardship isn't 'great'. And if you chose a 'promotional window' over something 'less' essential, like food, or gas and electricity, then good for you. It seems you clearly have your life priorities well sorted and thus clearly in a position to rain down judgement on the rest of us.

In fairness, 'punishment' may have been an overexaggeration, but it can feel like that at times. They call it the Poverty Trap for a reason. Want to save money on fuel, you have to buy a more fuel efficient car, which is more expensive than the old clapped out cars. Want to save money on rent, well, you'll need money for a deposit on a house. Etc. etc. etc.

It'd just be nice if a company instead of using Only Access 'promotional windows', just gave people a chance and have it 'Early Access'. There's also an argument for Serving Personnel in the various militaries to be given a chance to access stuff. I think I recall Star Wars Galaxies was great at giving them the odd thing here and there as a thank you for service to the country, but I can't exactly remember how.

Missing a promotional window is not a punishment so enough of that nonsense.

 

We all have lives and commitments outside of swtor so enough of that nonsense as well as it's insulting to me that you think that just cuz I have something you don't that somehow I have no real-life concerns that I have to juggle. Just stop it.

 

It's up to each person to choose what they do with their money and what their priorities are. It's not up to BioWare or anyone else to try and take into account every single persons' unique situation since that's actually impossible.

 

You missed the promo window cuz you had other things going on and that's great. You prioritized as you saw fit. You're not going to get everything you want in life and that's ok.

 

{But, if you want to be ridiculous, instead of blaming BioWare, how about blaming the cause of your financial situation for punishing you in that you missed a video game promotional incentive?}

I do not think that BW should make ay of the subscriber rewards available again, but IF they chose to do so, I think that using CC's should NOT be an option to purchase any of the subscriber rewards. There are too many CC's out there that were simply subscriber stipends, security key stipends or referral stipends and as such do not generate any additional revenue for BW. All purchases of past subscriber rewards should be real money only.

 

 

 

Single month subscriber rewards should be $20 IMO. This is higher than the cost of a single month subscription, but the additional cost is just an additional incentive to subscribe. Why wait and pay more than a month's subscription when I can just pay that month's subscription now and get the reward in addition to being able to play with no restrictions.

 

The bonus chapter, and any future long term subscription rewards, should be no less than the cost of a single month's subscription multiplied by the number of months subscription required to be eligible for the reward and I think an additional 10-15% is not unreasonable. In the case of the bonus chapter, that would be no less than $120 ($15 per month X 8 months) and I think it should be at least $130.

 

Anyone purchasing these subscription rewards, after all, would be someone who did not even qualify to receive those rewards and as such should expect, or at least not be surprised, to have to pay more than those who DID qualify to receive those rewards.

Personally, I'd be fine with Cartel Coins, this is all about people's ability to afford things, and if they've saved up a stash of CC's for rainy day funds when the finances hit hard times, then why not?

As for HK himself, I think about 1000 CCs would be a fair and not unprecedented amount if I'm not mistaken. I think Treek is/was about 1k CCs?

As for the total content, then maybe yes, both CCs and/or money. Like the Rise of the Hutt Cartel, but I'd say worth more. To be fair, you could do a Collector's Edition for the KOTFE stuff with all the sub rewards in and charge a fair chunk for that, that might be fair I guess.

I think you'll find my suggestion actually does take into account a lot of people's situations and actually, no, financial hardship isn't 'great'. And if you chose a 'promotional window' over something 'less' essential, like food, or gas and electricity, then good for you. It seems you clearly have your life priorities well sorted and thus clearly in a position to rain down judgement on the rest of us.

Having priorities other than subscribing to this game is part of life.

I don't think anyone expects people to choose to subscribe to this game rather than put food on the table. Many people, however, do expect that if Johnny doesn't subscribe, for whatever reason, that Johnny learn to live with and accept the fact that not subcribing may mean that he doesn't get to have some of the shinies, no matter how much he like them or how jealous he gets of those that DO have the shinies because they DID subscribe.

In fairness, 'punishment' may have been an overexaggeration, but it can feel like that at times. They call it the Poverty Trap for a reason. Want to save money on fuel, you have to buy a more fuel efficient car, which is more expensive than the old clapped out cars. Want to save money on rent, well, you'll need money for a deposit on a house. Etc. etc. etc.

"Punishment" is more than an over-exaggeration. It is closer to outright dishonesty, IMO.

Not being rewarded is nowhere near the same as being "punished".

You can say it "feels" like punishment, but that is likely the green eyed monster talking, IMO.

It'd just be nice if a company instead of using Only Access 'promotional windows', just gave people a chance and have it 'Early Access'. There's also an argument for Serving Personnel in the various militaries to be given a chance to access stuff. I think I recall Star Wars Galaxies was great at giving them the odd thing here and there as a thank you for service to the country, but I can't exactly remember how.

You're still advocating a "promotional window" with "early access" rewards. What happens when that "early access" window closes? Anyone who didn't pre-order loses out, right?

As for servicemen and women, they have the same opportunity to subscribe and get the shinies as anyone else. Do you expect anyone to believe that no serviceman or woman can maintain a recurring subscription or make arrangements for someone in the states to purchase a time card or two and apply it to their account?

Personally, I'd be fine with Cartel Coins, this is all about people's ability to afford things, and if they've saved up a stash of CC's for rainy day funds when the finances hit hard times, then why not?

Any subscriber rewards made available again should be real money purcahses only, not because of any CC's that players may have "saved up for a rainy day", but rather the fact that too many CC's do not generate any additional revenue for BW as they are not purchased", but are "FREE", through referral rewards, security key stipends or subscriber stipends.

As for HK himself, I think about 1000 CCs would be a fair and not unprecedented amount if I'm not mistaken. I think Treek is/was about 1k CCs?

Treek is over 2000 CC's, if I recall correctly.

As for the total content, then maybe yes, both CCs and/or money. Like the Rise of the Hutt Cartel, but I'd say worth more. To be fair, you could do a Collector's Edition for the KOTFE stuff with all the sub rewards in and charge a fair chunk for that, that might be fair I guess.

You can hope all you want, but I would not expect BW to change their stance on subscriber rewards, and make any of them available again. Their history with regards to subscriber rewards speaks otherwise.

2) The approximate subscription cost for those who earned the reward is $120 so I would not be opposed to them selling the chapter on the Cartel Market for something like 20,000 coins to represent both the full cost of acquiring the chapter and a penalty so that its value isn't lessened for those who acquired it as intended.

This would allow people who wanted it right now to pay for it and those who couldn't afford it would still be able to earn it via the monthly subscriber coins.

This argument is utter nonsense. You are well aware that your sub goes to other things than the sub reward. The sub reward is a bonus, not what you are paying for. They could sell it for one cartel coin and it would still be fair towards you since you got it for free because you were a sub at the time.

It seems you clearly have your life priorities well sorted and thus clearly in a position to rain down judgement on the rest of us.

But it's ok for you to judge me and think my life is perfect just cuz I was able to subscribe to a video game at a specific point in time?

But it's ok for you to judge me and think my life is perfect just cuz I was able to subscribe to a video game at a specific point in time?

At what point did I declare your life perfect?

Having priorities other than subscribing to this game is part of life.

 

I don't think anyone expects people to choose to subscribe to this game rather than put food on the table. Many people, however, do expect that if Johnny doesn't subscribe, for whatever reason, that Johnny learn to live with and accept the fact that not subcribing may mean that he doesn't get to have some of the shinies, no matter how much he like them or how jealous he gets of those that DO have the shinies because they DID subscribe.

 

But why? Why choose to say 'no, you can't have that because reasons'. Why not let Johnny have the thing? It has no material impact upon you, so what reason do people have to say that Johnny should not have the thing?

"Punishment" is more than an over-exaggeration. It is closer to outright dishonesty, IMO.

 

Not being rewarded is nowhere near the same as being "punished".

 

You can say it "feels" like punishment, but that is likely the green eyed monster talking, IMO.

By this, I assume you mean greed. To me, 'promotional windows' are simply psychological tricks used on people to promote desire by exploiting their base psychology. Creating artificial scarcity and demand. My point is, we don't have to live that way, we don't have to accept that people should be denied things just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time because of entirely arbitrary reasons. Why is it greed to want to be able to enjoy things that are arbitrarily denied to you? Or, from a different angle, why do people feel the need to deny others things when it could be arranged that others could access those things? To me, that's also greed, the desire for exclusivity. The desire to be the special flower. I get that we live in a capitalist society, and so they need our money to function. I just think if you're going to have a model, Early Access is better/fairer than Only Access. If you think I'm wrong, explain to me why it should be Only Access and why people should be not allowed to access things if they can't afford it at the time because of entirely arbitrary reasons. Other things in life, (within reason) I can save up for if I 'really' want it.

You're still advocating a "promotional window" with "early access" rewards. What happens when that "early access" window closes? Anyone who didn't pre-order loses out, right?

No, that would be Only Access. Pre-orders get to access things early, then after that everyone can access the thing.

As for servicemen and women, they have the same opportunity to subscribe and get the shinies as anyone else. Do you expect anyone to believe that no serviceman or woman can maintain a recurring subscription or make arrangements for someone in the states to purchase a time card or two and apply it to their account?

I wasn't aware of the time-card to be fair, and I forgot that you don't have to be logged in during these events, just subscribed. There used to be things where you actually had to log in during the event, but I don't recall that being a thing recently, so yeah, not such a relevant example.

But why? Why choose to say 'no, you can't have that because reasons'. Why not let Johnny have the thing? It has no material impact upon you, so what reason do people have to say that Johnny should not have the thing?

Because Johnny did NOT meet the requirements to be eligible to have that shiny.

By this, I assume you mean greed. To me, 'promotional windows' are simply psychological tricks used on people to promote desire by exploiting their base psychology. Creating artificial scarcity and demand. My point is, we don't have to live that way, we don't have to accept that people should be denied things just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time because of entirely arbitrary reasons. Why is it greed to want to be able to enjoy things that are arbitrarily denied to you? Or, from a different angle, why do people feel the need to deny others things when it could be arranged that others could access those things? To me, that's also greed, the desire for exclusivity. The desire to be the special flower. I get that we live in a capitalist society, and so they need our money to function. I just think if you're going to have a model, Early Access is better/fairer than Only Access. If you think I'm wrong, explain to me why it should be Only Access and why people should be not allowed to access things if they can't afford it at the time because of entirely arbitrary reasons. Other things in life, (within reason) I can save up for if I 'really' want it.

No, I meant JEALOUSY. "Why can't I have what he has?"

Why do people feel that they are entitled to everything they see for no reason other than they want that shiny and cannot accept the fact that someone else has something they cannot have?

The only thing "wrong" with "only access" except that some people simply cannot accept that there are some things they cannot have. That is not a problem with the "only access" system. That is an entitlement problem with the PEOPLE who feel entitled to everything they want.

I wanted to go to Las Vegas and see the Star Trek experience, but it no longer exists so I have missed my chance. Should I cry and whine to the owners of that hotel that is is not fair that I did not get to see the Star Trek experience. I could even claim that I had no idea it even existed until it was too late. Or, should I just accept that there are some things that are no longer available and I can learn to live without them.

No, that would be Only Access. Pre-orders get to access things early, then after that everyone can access the thing.

Pre-order exclusives are still exclusive to those that pre-ordered. There is no option for players to purchase the pre-order yellow-black crystals if they did not pre-order the game. There is no option for players to purchase the hutt holo trainer if they did not pre-order the ROtHC exoansion.

At what point did I declare your life perfect?

That's exactly what you're implying, so don't play this stupid semantics nonsense garbage game.

But why? Why choose to say 'no, you can't have that because reasons'. Why not let Johnny have the thing? It has no material impact upon you, so what reason do people have to say that Johnny should not have the thing?

It also has no impact on Johnny, so why does Johnny want it so bad? Cuz of this:

These special stuffs aren't just "fluff", they have meaning behind them, meaning that becomes meaningless if they're just given away to anyone at any time.

It obviously means something no matter how many times people like you try and say it doesn't.

Pre-order exclusives are still exclusive to those that pre-ordered. There is no option for players to purchase the pre-order yellow-black crystals if they did not pre-order the game. There is no option for players to purchase the hutt holo trainer if they did not pre-order the ROtHC exoansion.

And, as usual, whenever Rat destroys the fail analogies with logic you people just move on to the next one. Just give up already. Not everything is available to everyone all the time and that's OK.

The more Bioware does this kind of thing the more threads like this we're going to see. It's not worth massaging subs egos at the expense of all the resentment it creates from people who missed out through no fault of their own.

No fault of their own?

It's not the game has been denied to anyone over the course of its life. Everyone has had the same opportunity to play and subscribe.

Is it BW's fault that Johnny didn't subscribe on the appropriate date to get subscriber reward X? No.

Resentment?

Resentment only comes with an entitled attitude, IMO. Johnny feels he is entitled to something he KNOWS he does not qualify to receive and therefore wants to blame BW, or anyone other than himself for his PERCEPTION the he is being "punished" because he did not meet the requirements to receive the REWARD.

That's exactly what you're implying, so don't play this stupid semantics nonsense garbage game.

 

 

It also has no impact on Johnny, so why does Johnny want it so bad? Cuz of this:

 

These special stuffs aren't just "fluff", they have meaning behind them, meaning that becomes meaningless if they're just given away to anyone at any time.

 

It obviously means something no matter how many times people like you try and say it doesn't.

 

 

And, as usual, whenever Rat destroys the fail analogies with logic you people just move on to the next one. Just give up already. Not everything is available to everyone all the time and that's OK.

1) Semantics are important.

2) Things only have meaning if they are rare? Personally, I find the value of something to be intrinsic to itself, not a function of how rare or not it is. HK-55 is a well designed bit of content. His 'meaning' to me doesn't derive from him being a sub only content, but the fact that he's a quality bit of design. The Imperial Trooper Armour isn't meaningful to RP'ers because it's rare, it's because it allows you to dress up and function as an IC Trooper unit. Now all that much more difficult because it was an Only Access bit of Collector's edition stuff.

3) The Rat has a much better argument than you to be fair, so I'd rather spend more time countering their points as they're more logical.

Because Johnny did NOT meet the requirements to be eligible to have that shiny.

 

No, I meant JEALOUSY. "Why can't I have what he has?"

 

Why do people feel that they are entitled to everything they see for no reason other than they want that shiny and cannot accept the fact that someone else has something they cannot have?

 

The only thing "wrong" with "only access" except that some people simply cannot accept that there are some things they cannot have. That is not a problem with the "only access" system. That is an entitlement problem with the PEOPLE who feel entitled to everything they want.

 

I wanted to go to Las Vegas and see the Star Trek experience, but it no longer exists so I have missed my chance. Should I cry and whine to the owners of that hotel that is is not fair that I did not get to see the Star Trek experience. I could even claim that I had no idea it even existed until it was too late. Or, should I just accept that there are some things that are no longer available and I can learn to live without them.

 

Pre-order exclusives are still exclusive to those that pre-ordered. There is no option for players to purchase the pre-order yellow-black crystals if they did not pre-order the game. There is no option for players to purchase the hutt holo trainer if they did not pre-order the ROtHC exoansion.

To be fair, as strange as this may seem, at one point I had an issue with the culture of entitlement, and in some ways, I still do. I have however learned to question why people are being denied certain things, and whether those reasons are valid or not. I can, obviously live without things in my life. Living in a position of general financial disadvantage, I often have to. But that doesn't mean I have to like a system that creates an imbalance and denies things to others, whilst the 'Haves' look down upon the 'Have Nots' for daring to complain about not having the opportunities they were given, and worse still, the 'Have Nots' rolling over and accepting their lot in life.

You'll find also my questioning of these things doesn't really just stem from jealousy of the 'I want the shiny', as I woudl be lying if I said that wasn't partly a motivator, but also I believe in a sort of Creative Commons culture of sharing of things between people openly, and not denying things to others simply because they don't have the money. Obviously we live in the real world and it's a Corporate Capitalist world and we have to live with that. As nice and shiny an idea as a world where money is no longer required and everyone has access to everything (speaking of Star Trek, that's kind of where they got to with replicators and the understanding that senselessly denying other people things wasn't really a good way to go.)

As you mention the pre-order stuff, as I haven't explicitly stated that previously, I'd also lump that into things that should have been 'Early Access' rather than 'Only Access'.

Put simply, the only reason 'Only Access' is used, is because some guy in an Office decided that's the way it should be, there's no 'good' reason for it. Yeah, I don't have to like it, yeah, I'll probably have to live with it, but if I don't like it, and I can make a suggestion, explain my reasoning and someone listens and then it changes and suddenly it's 'Early Access' and then anyone can, in time, access the things, why is that a bad thing to aim for?

'It's just the way it is, deal with it' doesn't really cut it with me.

My postulate: The only reason people want to deny others things is because they put more value in things that are rare and wanting to own the rare thing than in creating a society where all people have an equal and fair opportunity.

Also, you missed that Star Trek experience? Have you ever asked to see whether it will be put on again?

To be fair though, on reflection, 'punish' was an incredibly poor choice of words vented at a time of frustration. The system still rankles me though for the reasons I've stated, and not just for my own personal gain, but so that other people can have access to things too, rather than just because I want the thing. I want everyone to have the ability to access what I have.

To be fair, as strange as this may seem, at one point I had an issue with the culture of entitlement, and in some ways, I still do. I have however learned to question why people are being denied certain things, and whether those reasons are valid or not. I can, obviously live without things in my life. Living in a position of general financial disadvantage, I often have to. But that doesn't mean I have to like a system that creates an imbalance and denies things to others, whilst the 'Haves' look down upon the 'Have Nots' for daring to complain about not having the opportunities they were given, and worse still, the 'Have Nots' rolling over and accepting their lot in life.

 

You'll find also my questioning of these things doesn't really just stem from jealousy of the 'I want the shiny', as I woudl be lying if I said that wasn't partly a motivator, but also I believe in a sort of Creative Commons culture of sharing of things between people openly, and not denying things to others simply because they don't have the money. Obviously we live in the real world and it's a Corporate Capitalist world and we have to live with that. As nice and shiny an idea as a world where money is no longer required and everyone has access to everything (speaking of Star Trek, that's kind of where they got to with replicators and the understanding that senselessly denying other people things wasn't really a good way to go.)

Ok, then let's give everyone a nice shiny jaguar to drive so that no one feels deprived, or like a "have not".

I've wanted a Jaguar for decades now, but I know that I cannot afford to drive one. Do I go around clamoring that it's nor fair that Johnny gets to rive a Jaguar and I don't? No. I may be jealous of those I see driving Jaguars, but I accept that I get to drive a car with a much more economical, shall we say, price tag.

Put me squarely in the "have not" category. Do I "simply roll over"? No, but I do not rail and cry "It's not fair", either. I can accept that there are things I will likely never have, no matter how much I might like to have them.

As you mention the pre-order stuff, as I haven't explicitly stated that previously, I'd also lump that into things that should have been 'Early Access' rather than 'Only Access'.

 

Put simply, the only reason 'Only Access' is used, is because some guy in an Office decided that's the way it should be, there's no 'good' reason for it. Yeah, I don't have to like it, yeah, I'll probably have to live with it, but if I don't like it, and I can make a suggestion, explain my reasoning and someone listens and then it changes and suddenly it's 'Early Access' and then anyone can, in time, access the things, why is that a bad thing to aim for?

There actually IS a "good" reason to have "only access" instead of "early access", even if you do not agree witht hat reason.

The reason is that it IS "only access". There is an extra incentive to act now is something is "only access" while "early access" adds incentive to wait and act later when maybe the "reward" will be cheaper to obtain.

'It's just the way it is, deal with it' doesn't really cut it with me.

 

My postulate: The only reason people want to deny others things is because they put more value in things that are rare and wanting to own the rare thing than in creating a society where all people have an equal and fair opportunity.

I can only speak for myself, but the issue is NOT that I want to deny something to others.

The issue is that BW set the rules in the terms and conditions, CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY. They set them as "only access" and to obtain the subscriber rewards a player had to be subscribed on the appropriate date(s). I expect BW to hold to those terms and conditions, as they were stated.

Had BW stated at the onset that the "reward" was "early access" and that those subscriber rewards would be made available on the CM after a year or so, then I would have no problem with those rewards being placed ont he CM. However, that is NOT how BW set the rules.

Also, you missed that Star Trek experience? Have you ever asked to see whether it will be put on again?

While I did not contact that hotel directly, I have been keeping an ear to the ground and eye on the web for any indication that I might have a chance to see it and possibly eat at Quark's Bar and Grill. To date, I have seen nothing to indicate that Star Trek experience will be reopened, either at that hotel or any other location.

To be fair though, on reflection, 'punish' was an incredibly poor choice of words vented at a time of frustration. The system still rankles me though for the reasons I've stated, and not just for my own personal gain, but so that other people can have access to things too, rather than just because I want the thing. I want everyone to have the ability to access what I have.

I look forward to the day when we can all drive Jaguars, but until then, we must live int he world as it is, not as we wish it were.

Ok, then let's give everyone a nice shiny jaguar to drive so that no one feels deprived, or like a "have not".

 

I've wanted a Jaguar for decades now, but I know that I cannot afford to drive one. Do I go around clamoring that it's nor fair that Johnny gets to rive a Jaguar and I don't? No. I may be jealous of those I see driving Jaguars, but I accept that I get to drive a car with a much more economical, shall we say, price tag.

 

Put me squarely in the "have not" category. Do I "simply roll over"? No, but I do not rail and cry "It's not fair", either. I can accept that there are things I will likely never have, no matter how much I might like to have them.

 

 

 

There actually IS a "good" reason to have "only access" instead of "early access", even if you do not agree witht hat reason.

 

The reason is that it IS "only access". There is an extra incentive to act now is something is "only access" while "early access" adds incentive to wait and act later when maybe the "reward" will be cheaper to obtain.

 

 

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but the issue is NOT that I want to deny something to others.

 

The issue is that BW set the rules in the terms and conditions, CLEARLY AND EXPLICITLY. They set them as "only access" and to obtain the subscriber rewards a player had to be subscribed on the appropriate date(s). I expect BW to hold to those terms and conditions, as they were stated.

 

Had BW stated at the onset that the "reward" was "early access" and that those subscriber rewards would be made available on the CM after a year or so, then I would have no problem with those rewards being placed ont he CM. However, that is NOT how BW set the rules.

 

 

 

While I did not contact that hotel directly, I have been keeping an ear to the ground and eye on the web for any indication that I might have a chance to see it and possibly eat at Quark's Bar and Grill. To date, I have seen nothing to indicate that Star Trek experience will be reopened, either at that hotel or any other location.

 

 

 

I look forward to the day when we can all drive Jaguars, but until then, we must live int he world as it is, not as we wish it were.

Some fair points there, especially with regards to the Terms and Conditions and their legally binding status. It'd occurred to me about the possibility that they need to incentivise subscribers for long-term financial stability compared to people being able to buy things when they choose to do so (and can afford to do so).

As for the Jags, again, as with most of Capitalism, it's an economy based on perception and arbitrary values, but as you say, we live in the real world. As far as the real world goes though, there are things we can influence, and there are things that we can not. Personally, I choose, where there is a forum to provide an opportunity to influence, to make an attept to do so.

As it happens, maybe if you and others like you expressed an interest in the Star Trek experience, and sufficient interest was expressed, they may consider it commercially viable to 'Make it So' again. Either way, I hope you do get a chance as it sounds like it might have been pretty awesome.

#1 No one is punishing you, you missed out, you won't get it you didn't meet the requirements.

#2 Almost every MMO which has given subscriber rewards have NEVER re-released them, and those which did lost a lot of subscribers and went belly up.

#3 I dont have half of the subscriber rewards, do i want them, nope, they were given in that period of time. Though i do wish achivments based on those rewards offered 0 achivment points.

#4 This has been discussed in plenty of threads and majority says no to it, because you missed the deadlines end of story. It is like college if you don't turn your paper in by 11:59PM on a day its an automatic F, so welcome to life.

Just going to say this. As someone who's got a CE, and have a large number of the sub rewards, I personally couldn't give 2 ****s if these things were put up in the CM. Why? Because that means more money for the game, thus more content for me.

What do I care if someone wants to spend more money for digital loot? It has 0 effect on me as a player. I have my stuff, and if Joe, or Jane, or who ever wants one, let them shell out the cash to get something I have, I'm good with that. I don't need to feel like a special little snow flake, by being one of the few thousand left over players with the CE. (This goes for sub rewards too) They get what they want, (win for them) devs get more money (win for the devs) and hopefully we get more content (win for the rest of us). So really what's the downside, other than loosing your elitists status?

I've seen the counter argument to this too, and it's weak sauce for the most part. One of which being is that if you gave the sub rewards on the cartel market, people would stop subbing. Umm no, very few people sub for the actual rewards, most sub for other reasons, which there are many off. The second argument, oh well they said these were exclusive and people would feel betrayed, and quit. Uhh no they never said exclusive for any of the rewards, so ya.

Treek is over 2000 CC's, if I recall correctly.

2100 CC to be precise.