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Class advice?


Varnoukh's Avatar


Varnoukh
10.18.2019 , 07:51 PM | #1
Returning player from many years ago. For Nautolans. Checked them out on the PTS and they're great.

Briefly I thought that maybe SWTOR was a game I could take seriously. Then I discovered all the build-a-stack of some inane buff which somehow makes some other ability insta cast / do more damage etc.

That's super crazy pants.

No, I'm not too stupid to "grasp" the "brilliance" of this convoluted system. Pressing buttons in a pre-deterimined order is something pigeons can manage. So can I. But my sense of fun is significantly more sophisticated than that of pigeons and my brain doesn't appreciated this severely twisted and illogical nonsensical combat.

After a few hours of playing like this, my brain feels like it needs a shower. It's only ever felt this way before when I've had to work with messy code written by other people or dealing with my homicidal stalker's insanity.

There's absolutely no chance I'd subscribe for this. But I've already spent money on the game again so I may stick around to eg. check out strongholds.

The insanity isn't evident at lower levels. It gets forced on classes at higher levels through the left hand side of the discipline tree. Someone in game suggested that I jump on the PTS and boost some characters to max level so I can see what's really what. But it's now offline and won't be online again any time soon.

Given how convoluted the system is, it's difficult to form a clear picture based on the online discipline builder.

It seems like scoundrel / operative are the least affected. Unfortunately I hate their advertised up-front "tactical advantage nonsense". Healing myself when I'm not hurt before every fight to build a stack of "tactical advantage" so i can use my aoe attack feels utterly stupid. And I'm not super into their weird mix of melee and ranged.

Smuggler has some insanity but maybe less than other classes?

I've already tried consular. Their balance spec isn't too bad. I think there's only two affected abilities. But telekinetics is super crazy and their healing is a little bit too.

I don't care for guardian. Mechanically they look ok but I hate silly proc nonsense like riposte and the way their face glows when it procs is super immersion breaking. Jedi don't have glowing faces. Seriously.

Shadow may be ok'ish? At least the serenity discipline.

My very, very strong preference is to play healers, but in the trooper department it looks like commando gets painted more severely with the crazy brush than vanguard. Also they have the silly (for my tastes) supercharge mechanic. On the other hand, the commando medic discipline seems less crazy pants than than the consular one. And maybe gunnery disc isn't too bad?

JStari's Avatar


JStari
10.18.2019 , 11:47 PM | #2
Did you try smuggler ruffian discipline (operative lethality)? It ranks as one of the highest dps in PVE, and it's quite fun to play. There is an ability to insta-get TA, but otherwise you just use blaster whip/shiv to gain TA, the rotation is very simple, just keep DoTs in place and spam brutal shots/corrosive assault.

Otherwise, the mobility is awesome. There's an utility which enables quick shot to kick back enemies after you scamper once. I love it

I get your point, in my experience guardian vigilance, smuggler ruffian and commando gunnery are the least complex in terms of how convoluted the system is. They even removed some of the stats like Cunning and Aim years ago (check this out).. Unfortunately you're joining us after years and years of class changes. Maybe vanilla swtor is something you'd appreciate more?

And Onslaught is dropping on Tuesday with a whole new gearing system
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
10.19.2019 , 06:22 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by JStari View Post
They even removed some of the stats like Cunning and Aim years ago
More accurate to say that they merged Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strength into a single stat called Mastery that's the same for all classes. One big (for Commandos, anyway) advantage of that change is that it's no longer possible to see foes dropping Commando-only weapons with Smuggler-only stats.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
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> @"Biff.5312" said:
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Varnoukh's Avatar


Varnoukh
10.19.2019 , 07:54 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by JStari View Post
Did you try smuggler ruffian discipline (operative lethality)? It ranks as one of the highest dps in PVE, and it's quite fun to play. There is an ability to insta-get TA, but otherwise you just use blaster whip/shiv to gain TA, the rotation is very simple, just keep DoTs in place and spam brutal shots/corrosive assault.
Operative is not for me.

I don't care for either the "tactical advantage" silliness or their mix of ranged / melee.

I'm not simple and I don't need a simple rotation.

Rotations are banal. Pigeons can do them. Bless anyone who feels special for being able to press a few buttons in the right order!

What I want is straightforward, logical and immersive which most of SWTOR's current system isn't.

Quote: Originally Posted by JStari View Post
I get your point, in my experience guardian vigilance, smuggler ruffian and commando gunnery are the least complex in terms of how convoluted the system is.
I'm super into Jedi and guardian might be one of the less crazy classes in this respect, but as I said, I really can't stand the way their faces glow when riposte procs. It's gobsmackingly immersion breaking.

Like.... imagine if a Sith's lightsaber started twirling and they took off like a helicopter. You'd die laughing!

Maybe commando would be bearable.

Quote: Originally Posted by JStari View Post
Maybe vanilla swtor is something you'd appreciate more?
I didn't care for it the first time, so no. Vanilla SWTOR didn't have current ridiculous male Togruta or this stackery nonsense but it wasn't perfect.

No Nautolans. Just a bunch of humans and humans with different skin colours or silly little masks. Super boring and barely Star Wars.

Sure, there was Twi'leks, but their lekku do positively eye watering things in combat for some classes. And outside too. Like run as a Twi'lek shadow and you're stabbing yourself with your lightsaber. Or exit combat as a commando and you shove your gun up your lekku.

The only reason I can bare to play my Twi'lek consular is because I take the option for my barriers to reflect damage, which has the side benefit of making barriers less transparent and the lekku twisting less visible.

Every class was stuck with a tiny selection of companions. If you liked one classes combat but hated their companions or vice versa, that sucked. And there were the annoying companion crafting bonuses further limiting your freedom.

Quote: Originally Posted by JStari View Post
And Onslaught is dropping on Tuesday with a whole new gearing system
So you haven't been following it then?

New abilities and gear in Onslaught follows the same design in current SWTOR, which I do not love. For most classes, eg. sage.

https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20190925

Though they seem have spared commandos and blessed them with a nice, straightforward, logical and immersive buff.

https://www.swtor.com/info/news/arti...002-0#Commando

That's two positives for commando. Maybe I'll swing that way.

nyrkverse's Avatar


nyrkverse
10.21.2019 , 03:27 AM | #5
what type of content are you planning on playing? if you're just going to stick to the story it doesn't matter one bit if you follow the rotations or not. Just put the abilities you find less offensive on your quickbar and you're good to go.

alternatively, there's a few disciplines that are priority based - no set rotation. deception/infiltration (assassin/shadow) and arsenal/gunnery (commando/mercenary) are two of those. and it won't be optimal, but you can play many of the "set rotation" disciplines as priority as well.
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ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
10.21.2019 , 06:12 AM | #6
Never mind. Comment removed. It's clear that nothing anyone says is going to matter so there's no point in even saying it.
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Varnoukh's Avatar


Varnoukh
10.21.2019 , 07:18 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by nyrkverse View Post
what type of content are you planning on playing?
Prior to encountering this build-a-stack-of-some-silly buff nonsense I was seriously considering playing all of it. Now I'll probably just play the story for each class and maybe try to make enough credits to muck around with strongholds.

Bioware got lucky with me deciding to get the least appealing looking (to me) class out of the way first (operative) which didn't have any of this. I might just have used some of my stashed cartel coins to buy Nautolans rather than spending more money on the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by nyrkverse View Post
if you're just going to stick to the story it doesn't matter one bit if you follow the rotations or not. Just put the abilities you find less offensive on your quickbar and you're good to go.
I've already done with that my consular. Leaving a few abilities off the hotbar. Solo content is easy enough that you can get away with gimping yourself.

But I wouldn't do group content like that.

Quote: Originally Posted by nyrkverse View Post
alternatively, there's a few disciplines that are priority based - no set rotation. deception/infiltration (assassin/shadow) and arsenal/gunnery (commando/mercenary) are two of those. and it won't be optimal, but you can play many of the "set rotation" disciplines as priority as well.
I'm not incapable of executing rotations. I'm highly intelligent and rotations are not even close rocket science.

I'm not joking when I say pigeons can be trained to press buttons in a specific order. They really can.

I strongly dislike the illogical and random this ability makes another ability insta cast etc. business. It's not even remotely challenging to me. I did it for several hours with a consular telekinetic. The damage output dwarfs the balance discipline.

But I don't enjoy it. I really, really, really hate it.

Hopefully shadow and or commando will be bearable.

Diefexor's Avatar


Diefexor
10.22.2019 , 11:03 AM | #8
Guarantee this dude gets crushed in pvp where you do have to change your rotation based on certain situations and use your whole tool kit.

One thing I really appreciate about World of Warcraft is the ability to look at people logs, gameplay history (difficulty of content they do), and meters in game. Keeps people humble and accountable.

Almost every time someone goes on the forums and says how smart they are and how dumbed down the game is they are LFR heroes with grey parses and laughable pvp xp.

Was this thread meant to give others class advice? Because is certainly seems like you don't want any and were looking to let people know how awesome you are. Edge lord.

Diefexor's Avatar


Diefexor
10.22.2019 , 11:17 AM | #9
I could actually use some advice. I am having a really tough time choosing between rolling my Hatred Sin or Veng Jugg first.

They are kinda similar. Dot up enemy and spread with aoe mechanic. Veng is defenatly more front loaded which i like but the Death Knell set bonus and Quick Escalation tactical item seem like they will give Hatred the single target burst it needs.

Torn lol

Tralan's Avatar


Tralan
10.22.2019 , 11:44 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Varnoukh View Post
Returning player from many years ago. For Nautolans. Checked them out on the PTS and they're great.

Briefly I thought that maybe SWTOR was a game I could take seriously. Then I discovered all the build-a-stack of some inane buff which somehow makes some other ability insta cast / do more damage etc.

That's super crazy pants.

No, I'm not too stupid to "grasp" the "brilliance" of this convoluted system. Pressing buttons in a pre-deterimined order is something pigeons can manage. So can I. But my sense of fun is significantly more sophisticated than that of pigeons and my brain doesn't appreciated this severely twisted and illogical nonsensical combat.

After a few hours of playing like this, my brain feels like it needs a shower. It's only ever felt this way before when I've had to work with messy code written by other people or dealing with my homicidal stalker's insanity.

There's absolutely no chance I'd subscribe for this. But I've already spent money on the game again so I may stick around to eg. check out strongholds.

The insanity isn't evident at lower levels. It gets forced on classes at higher levels through the left hand side of the discipline tree. Someone in game suggested that I jump on the PTS and boost some characters to max level so I can see what's really what. But it's now offline and won't be online again any time soon.

Given how convoluted the system is, it's difficult to form a clear picture based on the online discipline builder.

It seems like scoundrel / operative are the least affected. Unfortunately I hate their advertised up-front "tactical advantage nonsense". Healing myself when I'm not hurt before every fight to build a stack of "tactical advantage" so i can use my aoe attack feels utterly stupid. And I'm not super into their weird mix of melee and ranged.

Smuggler has some insanity but maybe less than other classes?

I've already tried consular. Their balance spec isn't too bad. I think there's only two affected abilities. But telekinetics is super crazy and their healing is a little bit too.

I don't care for guardian. Mechanically they look ok but I hate silly proc nonsense like riposte and the way their face glows when it procs is super immersion breaking. Jedi don't have glowing faces. Seriously.

Shadow may be ok'ish? At least the serenity discipline.

My very, very strong preference is to play healers, but in the trooper department it looks like commando gets painted more severely with the crazy brush than vanguard. Also they have the silly (for my tastes) supercharge mechanic. On the other hand, the commando medic discipline seems less crazy pants than than the consular one. And maybe gunnery disc isn't too bad?
Lots of complaining about almost everything perhaps this isnt the game for you.