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Grammar in Chat


Polyneux

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So I want to discuss something. And it might turn into a flame war but know that is not my intention.

 

I also want to begin this by saying I am not a Grammar Nazi. What the scope of this post is covering is simple things like capitalization of first letters in sentences, punctuation, etc. I'm a senior in college and I still have to consult a manual sometimes if I want to go crazy in a paper and add a colon.

 

 

TLDR;

My question is this:

Question 1: Do you view people who do not capitalize, use punctuation, or shorthand as lesser than yourself? (Assuming you do use correct punctuation, etc.)

/TLDR;

 

This is a simple question that should be answered for statistical reasons with "Yes" or "No" and then I will go on with my hypothesis.

 

I'm also not saying that the above question is at all true. I know lots of people who are smart and don't use proper grammar for reasons I will discuss below. This is just

 

Explanation:

 

I'm speaking from my own personal experience and that of my closest friends whom I know in real life. I cannot for example take the experiences of a SWTOR member in chat who claims to be a novelist with a doctorate, because who knows?

 

I am a college student. A very average college student in my senior year. I grew up in the internet age so since High School I have been using a computer to process words and type. I am a little special though from other children because my family worked in the computer industry from the get go. So from about 1994 or 5 onward I had been around computers, which is since I was five years old. I learned to type before I could really write well and other things. This has not necessarily been great for me because my handwriting sucks! Anyway that's a digression.

 

We're talking about papers and academic work. Why? Because I am assuming your average player of a game like SWTOR is someone who is probably 15-25, is in school, also writing and doing academic work.

 

Now here is me:

 

When I write something and make a mistake; I immediately backspace and fix it. No matter what, no matter where. This is a habit from all of the papers I have written during my scholarly career. And it is a habit that transfers to my texting, Facebook, everything.

 

It is very hard for me to force myself to write sloppily, and only in the heat of combat might I split some poor incorrect thing out. Friends whom I've asked told me the same thing, I -witness- this on a daily basis by going to my University's library.

 

I'm not OCD in the slightest, and I'm not a Grammar Nazi as said before. I simply have developed a habit of writing material in the correct format, to lessen the use of things like spellcheck or whatever, and to just sound professional and neat.

 

So it is from this standpoint that I make the following hypothesis:

 

If a person does not use proper grammar, punctuation, or capitalization at a basic level in a chat where they are simply standing and chatting (not in combat), then one of the following possibly applies to them.

 

(a). They are younger than 15. Maybe even older than that. The person has not reached an age where they are expected to write perfectly, and especially not on a computer. They probably aren't asked to write papers, copy notes, etc. In America 15 is approximately 10th grade on the high school scale. Most high schools are not completely integrated with computers, nor can they expect their students to all have computers, etc.

 

(b). They are older than 30. And grew up not really being expected to type or process words. They might hold a job where they are not expected to do so either. Someone who is 30 was born in 1982, and was 18 in the year 2000. School computing was definitely not as developed, and University computing was only a few steps ahead. Computing was also still relatively expensive.

 

©. English is not their first language. Can't really blame anyone for that. They might be using a foreign keyboard, they might be code-switching. Who knows what stage of Language Acquisition they are in. But people who fall into this category usually make more obvious mistakes than punctuation.

 

(d). They are not College educated. They could be 18-24 and never went to college, working your basic minimum wage job. This person is not really -asked- to use good typing skills in there everyday environment.

 

Keep in mind these are all suppositions. I'm not saying that everyone who is young, old, didn't go to college, or an ELL is stupid or a lesser human being. What I'm trying to decode is the attitude against people who do not take the effort to use proper grammar. Which leads me to.

 

(e). They don't care. And argument that I 100% do not buy. For reasons I have been discussing this whole time. Habits are hard to break, and if you are not in a habit of typing eloquently, then that really is a reflection of you as a person. This goes true as someone not showering, shaving, getting a haircut, or washing their clothes.

 

 

 

 

With all this said, think about the inverse, assuming the above hypothesis was completely true, that means that people who use proper punctuation, grammar, etc. are:

 

1. Older ('perfect' American age of 18-25 even.)

2. Smarter (College educated, possibly a professional worker.)

3. Proficient in English.

4. Caring about their image.

 

 

By fleshing this out I can clearly see why people take up the arguments that they do in chat wars about grammar.

 

The people who correct others simply know better, some of them are jerks and nazis, but a great deal of us are just interested in making sure people know that "a lot" is actually two words etc. And everyone has witnessed the 12 year old trying to exert himself as an older, wiser individual, and most of us myself included have done that same type of thing at one time or another.

 

So the discussion is this:

 

What is your take on grammar in game chat? What is your life experience (are you University trained etc)? Are you coming from writing a very complex academic paper to a video game where you immediately drop all rules of communication?

 

 

 

Arguments:

 

Here are some common arguments I run into.

 

1. As long as the point gets across it does not matter: This is true to a point, especially in verbal communication. Personally when I see a well constructed argument with proper grammar, I know the individual has thought enough into it to format it into an eloquent thought. Someone who spews whatever they are thinking (which is NOT always the case) may not be reading what others are saying, or thinking about what they are saying.

 

2. It's a game it doesn't matter: Goes back to my previous discussions, if you are in the habit of typing well, why stop? It's like someone faking an accent. If you are trying to fake an accent all day and then you go home and talk for five minutes in your real accent, you might very well mess up the next time you want to speak with an inflection.

 

3. Grammar Nazi's need to stop: It's not always about being a grammar nazi. I know 100% that there are school-aged children playing this game. I know 100% if someone keeps making the same spelling error, the same grammar error, then they will miss it in their school or work as well. As an Education major it's not about being elite or a "Nazi" but rather letting someone know if they repeatedly make a mistake. Often I will whisper instead of calling them out in the chat, but that is another story.

 

 

 

Go!

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You just wrote a GIANT post on in-game grammar.

 

Going on a tangent does not equate OCD. Being heated over anything results in giant posts. I simply wanted to make sure I covered all bases and ensure that I'm not taken as a troll or flamer.

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OMG! You know people use text to chat in MMO's right? And just because a person may not have an exceptional ability to spell does not make them dumb or stupid.

 

They may have exceptional math skills, or be able to works metals, or heal animals or people.

 

Just saying intelligence is relative. People excel where their environments need them to. Spelling is also relative.

 

Examples. Love, Luv, <3, pitter pat, twitterpated, adore, all mean the same thing and you know exactly what I meant. What does it matter how anyone spells anything as long as you understand what they mean?

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I have put up with a lot of things on this forum but this is pushing it way to far.

You LEAVE MY GRAMMAR OUT OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She does not even play SWTOR .... Hell.... She does not even have a Computer! She is a very nice Old Gal and bakes me tasty cookies and NONE of your damn business!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

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Short answer: no.

 

Long answer: if I begin to feel that it is taking more effort for me to figure out what some chuckled is trying to say than he is putting into saying it, then I dismiss said chuckled as not being worth my time. This is different on two levels. The first is that I am only put off by poor grammar in it impedes understanding. The second is that I don't think I'm better than That Guy, I just don't think he's worth my time. Both of these are important distinctions.

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Grammar died with the invention of texting and instant messaging and everyone being in such an all-fired hurry to type what they want to say as fast and as briefly as they possibly can.

 

I didn't read your post - so how's that for what's necessary to type to get a point across - certainly not an opening dissertation on grammar to ask a question.

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OMG! You know people use text to chat in MMO's right? And just because a person may not have an exceptional ability to spell does not make them dumb or stupid.

 

They may have exceptional math skills, or be able to works metals, or heal animals or people.

 

Just saying intelligence is relative. People excel where their environments need them to. Spelling is also relative.

 

Examples. Love, Luv, <3, pitter pat, twitterpated, adore, all mean the same thing and you know exactly what I meant. What does it matter how anyone spells anything as long as you understand what they mean?

 

Thus why I want to have the discussion.

 

If a person can heal animals or people or even if they are good at math then they likely went to or are attending a Professional school. I'd want to pick their brain as to why they don't follow the same rules for the few hours a day they play a game that they follow everywhere else in their life.

 

I'm saying that if a person's environment requires them to excel, then they should be excelling in all environments they are in including playing a game. I didn't say that the inability to spell or use grammar made them dumb or stupid. I'm saying it could give clues to their level of education, and possibly their profession.

 

 

When I see the argument happening repeatedly, I thought I'd write about it.

 

The question becomes "why do you treat me like im stupid?" and the answer is often "Because you use improper grammar." Why? Well I'm exploring why.

 

I'm not saying that I haven't made mistakes. I'm not saying that people who use poor grammar are stupid. I'm also not saying I am not guilty of casting poor judgement on someone. I'm talking about a stigma that is automatically placed on some people and why.

Edited by Polyneux
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OP, you are a nerfherder who thinks his college education is actually of importance. maybe when you get out of school and enter the real world, you'll realize the cold hard truth: nobody cares, especially on The Internet.

 

since you sound like a stuffy english major, i'll help you out here: i'd like a grande mocha, with a twist of soy milk. thanks.

 

edit: i'd like a bit of foam on top, as well. thanks again!

Edited by Darth_Gao_Gao
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OP, you are a nerfherder who thinks his college education is actually of importance. maybe when you get out of school and enter the real world, you'll realize the cold hard truth: nobody cares, especially on The Internet.

 

since you sound like a stuffy english major, i'll help you out here: i'd like a grande mocha, with a twist of soy milk. thanks.

 

edit: i'd like a bit of foam on top, as well. thanks again!

 

ROFL - well said.

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Whether its right or wrong when i see what used to be called "leet speak" but now is just a comon way younger people communicate in text messages it makes me instantly think that the person is an idiot and has nothing to say that i care to read.

 

As far as punctuation or typos, i could care less. Its a game people are playing the game , not writing an essay or a news paper article.

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The questions one asks often reflect more upon their character rather than their grammer. Some people simply don't have the time to type out full sentences with full stops when they're in the middle of a battle or just looking for a group. Short hand has it's place.
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If the communication fails then it is not communication. Making an assumption that people understand carries more issue depending on the consequence. That is totally subjective and the decision of the person communicating. Personally I would never run the risk of folk not understanding, but then I would not talk regarding an issue that I did not understand. I actually don't know how to use text talk as I don't use mobile phones.. So all the short hand stuff is meaningless to me. In truth I couldn't care less... I never even read the chat pane... Its way too high up on my screen. If it's anything like WoW its all kiddy nonsense anyway. I wouldn't let it get to you.
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OP, you are a nerfherder who thinks his college education is actually of importance. maybe when you get out of school and enter the real world, you'll realize the cold hard truth: nobody cares, especially on The Internet.

 

since you sound like a stuffy english major, i'll help you out here: i'd like a grande mocha, with a twist of soy milk. thanks.

 

edit: i'd like a bit of foam on top, as well. thanks again!

 

LoL That is what I was thinking ... How many Elite College Grads I have known in my life that had to learn the phrase "Would you like Fries with that?" :eek:

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The questions one asks often reflect more upon their character rather than their grammer. Some people simply don't have the time to type out full sentences with full stops when they're in the middle of a battle or just looking for a group. Short hand has it's place.

 

What I'm really gearing towards is the city and fleet arguments, where all parties involved are clearly just sitting around, not in battle, and trying to argue about the effectiveness of a Sorcerer, or something of that nature.

 

OP, you are a nerfherder who thinks his college education is actually of importance. maybe when you get out of school and enter the real world, you'll realize the cold hard truth: nobody cares, especially on The Internet.

 

since you sound like a stuffy english major, i'll help you out here: i'd like a grande mocha, with a twist of soy milk. thanks.

 

edit: i'd like a bit of foam on top, as well. thanks again!

 

Whether or not I am an "Elite College Grad" or whether or not I work at Starbucks is not the issue. If "nobody" cared then the argument would not exist. I wouldn't see it every day. I wouldn't be annotating research studies about the effect of texting and computer literacy on academic literacy (there are thousands).

 

I'm simply saying that if someone uses poor grammar than there is a strong likelihood that they did not or have not been in a situation that has asked them to do so. If you're suggesting by your highly antagonistic statement that you did not go to college or are not asked in your daily life to use proper grammar, then your very post supports the previous statement.

 

If you -have- gone to college and -are- asked to type professionally on a daily basis, my question is why wouldn't you, especially in a forum where you clearly have enough time to formulate an opinion.

 

Neither event is an attack on you or anyone else

Edited by Polyneux
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exactly, game = entertainment, your very post has caused you much stress, why do this to yourself? Do you think that by being a "nazi" your peers will fall in line to your way of thought? Enjoy life!! Live , laugh and love, my friend, everything else is inconsequential most especially grammar. Edited by krisknife
grammar
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Thus why I want to have the discussion.

 

If a person can heal animals or people or even if they are good at math then they likely went to or are attending a Professional school. I'd want to pick their brain as to why they don't follow the same rules for the few hours a day they play a game that they follow everywhere else in their life.

 

I'm saying that if a person's environment requires them to excel, then they should be excelling in all environments they are in including playing a game. I didn't say that the inability to spell or use grammar made them dumb or stupid. I'm saying it could give clues to their level of education, and possibly their profession.

 

 

When I see the argument happening repeatedly, I thought I'd write about it.

 

The question becomes "why do you treat me like im stupid?" and the answer is often "Because you use improper grammar." Why? Well I'm exploring why.

 

I'm not saying that I haven't made mistakes. I'm not saying that people who use poor grammar are stupid. I'm also not saying I am not guilty of casting poor judgement on someone. I'm talking about a stigma that is automatically placed on some people and why.

 

I would bet you can't heal and animal, or weld metal or shape it, it is due to the fact people are wired differently. Some may excel at spelling, others excel at other things. It has nothing to do at all about intelligence. I argue all people have the same intelligence.

 

It is their environment in which they live that dictates how that intelligence is applied. For example I do not know how to build a plane. But place me in the environment in which I absolutely had to build planes I would eventually learn to do so.

 

Everyone has this skill not just a few, even the ones that don't articulate to your satisfaction.

 

Therefore I agree with you to a point. For each person is differently wired. It could take the a great deal of time to become proficient with a game. Yet take them 1 minute to diagnose a disease.

Edited by Kelenan
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I would bet you can't heal and animal, or weld metal or shape it, it is due to the fact people are wired differently. Some may excel at spelling, others excel at other things. It has nothing to do at all about intelligence. I argue all people have the same intelligence.

 

It is their environment in which they live that dictates how that intelligence is applied. For example I do not know how to build a plane. But place me in the environment in which I absolutely had to build planes I would eventually learn to do so.

 

Everyone has this skill not just a few, even the ones that don't articulate to your satisfaction.

 

Okay, if someone is a metal worker or a vet. They weld the best metal and do the best healing at work. They consult for their friends and it is always an excellent job. All the horses are happy. Would they slack on their own vehicles, on their own pets? Would they let their dog get sick and die while healing others? The answer is no they are not.

 

I'm not questioning intelligence, I'm questioning reasoning.

 

In this day and age it is unprofessional to send an email, cover letter, resume paper (stuff everyone does, college or no), 90% of your average workday business or school materials without proper grammar. We develop a habit of the basics. You develop a habit of healing animals, of metal working, and you apply that all over, not just at work. I'm saying the same should apply here.

 

So if I see someone asking a question in chat or on a forum "Why are you treating me as less intelligent, why are you calling me 14." My response is that grammar is something that is expected to that person, they are a student or even a manager at McDonald's, somewhere where that is a standard. They have developed a habit and in their mind only someone who does not have that habit would not practice it everywhere.

 

I can almost guarantee if I put you in an anonymous discussion with two different people, one who uses no punctuation, capitals, smaller words, conjunctions etc. and one who properly formats sentences uses larger words (not too large, now) and has well developed thoughts, you would likely guess that the latter is older than the former, or more educated, or has a job, anything I've been discussing.

Edited by Polyneux
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Okay, if someone is a metal worker or a vet. They weld the best metal and do the best healing at work. They consult for their friends and it is always an excellent job. All the horses are happy. Would they slack on their own vehicles, on their own pets? Would they let their dog get sick and die while healing others? The answer is no they are not.

 

I'm not questioning intelligence, I'm questioning reasoning.

 

In this day and age it is unprofessional to send an email, cover letter, resume paper (stuff everyone does, college or no), 90% of your average workday business or school materials without proper grammar. We develop a habit of the basics. You develop a habit of healing animals, of metal working, and you apply that all over, not just at work. I'm saying the same should apply here.

 

So if I see someone asking a question in chat or on a forum "Why are you treating me as less intelligent, why are you calling me 14." My response is that grammar is something that is expected to that person, they are a student or even a manager at McDonald's, somewhere where that is a standard. They have developed a habit and in their mind only someone who does not have that habit would not practice it everywhere.

 

Do you wear a shirt and tie from the time you get up till the time you go to bed?

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